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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAY
[Re: moparmacka]
#626497
02/28/10 08:15 AM
02/28/10 08:15 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,489
St. Louis Mo.
10 o to go
"Happy Don"
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"Happy Don"
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,489
St. Louis Mo.
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Tried one with the stud maincap setup .PIA we quit running one .  don't think too much to gain . DR
2009 418" build dan smith built
new 9.96 131.82
6.23 108
1.30 60 foot
best to date 9/15/09
8in 727 430 dana 2860 lb 3040 lb w driver
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAY
[Re: moparmacka]
#626498
02/28/10 03:14 PM
02/28/10 03:14 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 862
Brisbane Australia
572B1
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 862
Brisbane Australia
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Quote:
Another thing that has been bothering me......is there any significant advantage in having a Milodon windage tray with a 4.000" stroke crank? Considering the outboard louvres have to be modified to clear 'H' beam rods and restricting oil return. Almost a 1/3 of the opening have been closed up for clearence.
Again, just after opinionS
Macka
 
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAY
[Re: 408Dust]
#626500
02/28/10 08:17 PM
02/28/10 08:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,166
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,166
Left Coast
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Quote:
Do your self a favor and list it on E-bag.
Not only does not not help it may actually hurt. Very few guys in the know use a windage tray on a SB.
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAY
[Re: Stroker Scamp]
#626504
03/01/10 09:58 AM
03/01/10 09:58 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,166
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,166
Left Coast
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Quote:
Quote:
I read that horsepower dropped significantly with a tray and a 4 " arm.
The book was " How to build big inch small block MoPars " and the number IIRC was around 24 ponies picked up without a tray.
I do not know if that holds true for a scraper as well.
I think a scraper on one side and the sump far enough below the rotating assy. would be the hot set up.
did they specify the reasoning behind the loss with the tray/vs no tray
The tray keeps the oil from draining back to the pan and actually exacerbates the oil/crank issue.
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAY
[Re: BobR]
#626505
03/01/10 11:09 AM
03/01/10 11:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 302
Casa Grande,Arizona
DennisJ
super street
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super street
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 302
Casa Grande,Arizona
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Back in the mid 1970s, Direct Connection had performance seminars in several cities.I went to the Seattle Wa. seminars for a few years.
The consensus was to not run a windage tray in a small block.
I don't remember the explanation that was given.
Dennis Jokela
I started out with nothing,and I still have most of it.
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAY
[Re: BobR]
#626507
03/01/10 10:32 PM
03/01/10 10:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082
St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082
St. Paul , Mn.
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Quote:
The tray keeps the oil from draining back to the pan and actually exacerbates the oil/crank issue.
Yep.
And this is simply what I have read.......no practical experience with it.
But it sounded good on paper.
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Stock SB WINDAGE TRAY
[Re: tubtar]
#626508
03/02/10 07:56 AM
03/02/10 07:56 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
Mattax
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
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The stock 340 tray doesn't have enough openings to be effective. I'm pretty sure that's in the DC tech bulletins compiled in the Engine 'Speed Secrets' book. They say add more louvres if your going to use it. I beleive the reason is as already stated - it does the opposite of its purpose, holds too much oil next to the crank. The milidon one in your photo looks like it's louvred in toward the crank. That's opposite of the Chrysler design. I'm sure Milidon had their reasons, but it doesn't look like it would drain quickly. If I was going to experiment with it, I'd check clearance, and then add at least twice the number of louveres inward if there is room. If its too close to the crank; open it the other way or convert it to a screen type. edit: Uh, nevermind the first suggestion to check clearence. You've got proof enough that inward doesn't work for your crank.
Last edited by Mattax; 03/02/10 07:59 AM.
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAY
[Re: moparmacka]
#626509
03/02/10 08:15 AM
03/02/10 08:15 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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If you have a Milodon catalog, you will see that they recommend trays with certain pans, while others, they don't. When I put an 8 qt Milodon pan on my 408, they recommended a tray with the pan I bought, so I used it. I didn't have any clearance problems ( I beam rods ). Don't think mashing the louvers closed is a very good idea though.
Fastest 300
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAY
[Re: Stroker Scamp]
#626510
03/05/10 10:44 PM
03/05/10 10:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,250
Between a rock & a hard place
cudadoug
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,250
Between a rock & a hard place
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Quote:
Quote:
I read that horsepower dropped significantly with a tray and a 4 " arm.
The book was " How to build big inch small block MoPars " and the number IIRC was around 24 ponies picked up without a tray.
I do not know if that holds true for a scraper as well.
I think a scraper on one side and the sump far enough below the rotating assy. would be the hot set up.
did they specify the reasoning behind the loss with the tray/vs no tray
What that book said is that tray sold by MP was designed for the 3.31 stroke (318/340) motors and it fits the 360, but the crankcase pressure is actually INCREASED as "does not work as well" in this application, therefore not recommended. Further it will not fit with a 4.00" crank as there isn't enough clearance to the rods and crank.
A sidebar in the Oiling chapter says that a tray was tested on a 408 motor using a STOCK 360 pan and the HP loss "was about" 42 HP. That seems like a ALOT of power loss.
Now, I eyeballed the MP tray in a 416 I am doing and although I didn't take any measurements the crank and rods are VERY close...so close that I don't think I want to try it. I'd love to evaluate on the dyno, but don't have that kind of time.
As much as that book promotes MP parts, (there was no mention of any other brand of tray) seems like a pretty honest evaluation and recommendation.
I dusted this thread off and chimed in, hoping to hear more from the small block stroker crowd especially. To tray or not to tray???
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAY
[Re: cudadoug]
#626511
03/06/10 04:29 AM
03/06/10 04:29 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 370
Queensland Australia
moparmacka
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 370
Queensland Australia
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Quote:
What that book said is that tray sold by MP was designed for the 3.31 stroke (318/340) motors and it fits the 360, but the crankcase pressure is actually INCREASED as "does not work as well" in this application, therefore not recommended. Further it will not fit with a 4.00" crank as there isn't enough clearance to the rods and crank.
A sidebar in the Oiling chapter says that a tray was tested on a 408 motor using a STOCK 360 pan and the HP loss "was about" 42 HP. That seems like a ALOT of power loss.
Now, I eyeballed the MP tray in a 416 I am doing and although I didn't take any measurements the crank and rods are VERY close...so close that I don't think I want to try it. I'd love to evaluate on the dyno, but don't have that kind of time.
I agree 42 HP loss seems to be significant. This is why I originally created this post to gain opinions from personal experiences.
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAY
[Re: moparmacka]
#626512
03/06/10 08:39 AM
03/06/10 08:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
CJK440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
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I've heard about drainback issues so I decided to fix that problem.
I cut large windows in the stock tray in-line with the rods and welded directional screen over them.
Can't quantify any benefit but the motor ran great and it was fun to make.
This was a 408 with IJ scrapers. Notice I had to trim the sides of the tray down for rod clearance.
2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
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Re: SB WINDAGE TRAY
[Re: moparmacka]
#626513
03/06/10 08:54 AM
03/06/10 08:54 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 259
Canada
lenweiler
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 259
Canada
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I'm using a crank scrapper...........
Damn! I dropped my change.............
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