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Re: Is Normal Aspiration 'dead' in terms of Excitment?
[Re: LSP]
#591799
01/24/10 09:55 PM
01/24/10 09:55 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
blownzoom440
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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Quote:
Quote:
I think generations growing up today with EFI and power adders respect us "old Schoolers"/quote]
Yes, I think they do too. I bought a late model EFI car about 4 years back and jumped into the EFI/tuner/power adder world. A life long N/A, carb, distributor guy I never at all considered going the power adder route, and set a goal of trying to be the quickest N/A car of my type around. I was surprised that a lot of the guys don't build their own engines, and most don't do any mechanical work on their own cars, not bagging on them, it's just different. The engine doesn't even seem to be a priority, they usually shop around for the cheapest built long block, toss on the power adder, break out the laptop, and get the biggest chassis dyno number they can, and brag about it on the internet.
and why not brag when an factory iron head wedge makes more than a 572 at 1/2 the price.   a lot of them may have never dreamed of having that kind of power,like myself.
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Re: Is Normal Aspiration 'dead' in terms of Excitment?
[Re: jim sciortino]
#591800
01/25/10 12:01 AM
01/25/10 12:01 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
I have nothing against power adders of any kind (I have a blower car and have run nitrous)...but, if ya can't make power with any of the available adders today, sell you're stuff and buy a checker board.
Take a smallblock car at 2800+ and run in the 8s, or a bigblock car well into the 8s or 7s, N/A, and that is impressive.
You really have to be on you're game in every area with N/A power. Can't waste anything.
Those kind of classes, I love.
That's true for every serious heads up class in America-N/A or assisted. If you think that Billy Glidden's nitrous SBF or Spiro Pappas' turbo motors aren't optimized as finely as any Pro Stock motor in the country you haven't been around the ADRL too often.
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Re: Is Normal Aspiration 'dead' in terms of Excitment?
[Re: Thumperdart]
#591802
01/25/10 12:35 AM
01/25/10 12:35 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I think it all boils down to how fast the cars go for how much is spent......... For example.......I LOVE watching a 431" SS/AH car run mid to low 8's (because I understand what it takes to do that)........but for what it costs to build that car (or even less), you could build a car with a turbo, blower, or NOS that would run easily in the 7's if not 6's......like last two years Drag Week winner....... I really think it all boils down to money.....  Average Joe at the track isn't smart enough and/or doesn't have the coinage to get his '69 Camaro into the 9's naturally aspirated, but he can bolt on a plate and get there pretty easily.....  Wayne
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Re: Is Normal Aspiration 'dead' in terms of Excitment?
#591803
01/25/10 02:26 AM
01/25/10 02:26 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,404
Chesterfield Twp. Mi.
John Burdine
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,404
Chesterfield Twp. Mi.
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power adders are great, but n/a is still cool. at Milan the fastest car or cars have been 8.30's in all motor if im not mistaken, i think 1 or 2 have been 20's testing. to run bottom 8's n/a, single carb, 3350 lbs, true 10.5's, and ladder bars is getting it done, i dont care how big the motor is.
btw, one of the fastest A/M cars is still pretty much a brand new ride, so they will get faster.
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Re: Is Normal Aspiration 'dead' in terms of Excitment?
[Re: dulcich]
#591804
01/25/10 03:32 AM
01/25/10 03:32 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Wise, the way I see it any chimp can make big power with the power adder; it comes down to nothing more than a durability contest and the amount of boost or spray. You can hear it all day long from the import guys. N/A is where the real talent of engine building rules.
-dulcich
Power is power, I don't care how you get there. If you want to make high-hp and lay down an impressive 1/4 mile time and still have a car with half way decent street manners, boost seems to be the way to go. To build a n/a to go the same track time may take a build that's too extreme for street driving. While an overcammed stroker sounds sweet, I guess it would have to depend on whether you want to drive it on the street or what your definition of streetable is.
When you're talking about the newer stuff like 4-6cyls and the newer smaller cube v8's, a power adder is really your only option to make any real hp, unless you're looking at fabbing a complete drivetrain swap.
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Re: Is Normal Aspiration 'dead' in terms of Excitment?
[Re: BobR]
#591805
01/25/10 09:47 AM
01/25/10 09:47 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
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Quote:
Quote:
I have nothing against power adders of any kind (I have a blower car and have run nitrous)...but, if ya can't make power with any of the available adders today, sell you're stuff and buy a checker board.
Take a smallblock car at 2800+ and run in the 8s, or a bigblock car well into the 8s or 7s, N/A, and that is impressive.
You really have to be on you're game in every area with N/A power. Can't waste anything.
Those kind of classes, I love.
That's true for every serious heads up class in America-N/A or assisted. If you think that Billy Glidden's nitrous SBF or Spiro Pappas' turbo motors aren't optimized as finely as any Pro Stock motor in the country you haven't been around the ADRL too often.
I'm not putting down any combination. All I'm saying is that in N/A, a completely scienced car can run quicker than its dyno #. Prostock, Comp and SS, for example.
With adders, scrubbing power is routine. There is nothing wrong with that, but I like the purity of N/A racing.
I'd rather watch Daniels race Barton, or A.J. race Anderson, than Dixon race Lucas.
But thats just me. 
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Re: Is Normal Aspiration 'dead' in terms of Excitment?
[Re: topfueldart]
#591808
01/25/10 10:17 PM
01/25/10 10:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
... NA motors are for people scared of making the leap to boost.
That's a pretty ballsy statement for somebody w/ a mid-11 second signature. 
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Re: Is Normal Aspiration 'dead' in terms of Excitment?
[Re: Dos Snails]
#591811
01/26/10 02:58 AM
01/26/10 02:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 214
Colo Springs, CO
DconD100
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 214
Colo Springs, CO
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I think that there is a big difference from a general spectator's view, compared to a true racer who spectates. The spectators want to see something different, and usually the fastest cars get the most attention. The exeception is doing it in something different...like a mopar. Nobody remembers the 200 mustangs and camaros that went down the strip, but that old dodge that did the wheelie makes an impression!
I get more people swarming around my voyager minivan after a 13 second pass than I do after a 10 second pass in my procharged dart. My N/A truck gathers a crowd too, but it is a completely different group. Even though I drive all my stuff on the streets, I have the most fun in my minivan...of course, there's something to be said for taking the car out on the weekends as well!
I just hope that we will always have a place to go play with our toys...seems like a lot of the tracks around here are having trouble staying open.
Pump Gas Small Blocks Rock!
11.53 @ 116mph E85 408 at 8500 ft da,
3605 pound truck, 3.91s, street driven
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Re: Is Normal Aspiration 'dead' in terms of Excitment?
[Re: dulcich]
#591812
01/26/10 10:12 AM
01/26/10 10:12 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
OK, I've been thinking about this, and I give. I'm going to build a custom turbo 2.0 out of a Neon and put it in my '68 Dart (Slant Six car). I'm going to shoot for 400hp at the wheels on a mild street tune and over 500 RWHP on high octane. Really.
-dulcich
Now you're talking. That would be a great combo.
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Re: Is Normal Aspiration 'dead' in terms of Excitment?
[Re: BobR]
#591813
01/26/10 11:22 AM
01/26/10 11:22 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 626
Mid-Ohio
Bakaruda432
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 626
Mid-Ohio
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An late 1960s block 318(+.030) 3.79 stroker crank and 340 rods with Ported EDDY Heads & 340 single plane intake 850 Proform Carb, twin Percison Te44 Turbos with Water Injection on the outlet side of the turbos should get good MPG on E-85 and make a EARLY '60S A Body scream. This would be great. I think N/A is going out not because it isn't cool but N2O,Turbo(s),Prochargers can make smaller engines the match for a 500+ N/A motor. Thats my
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Re: Is Normal Aspiration 'dead' in terms of Excitment?
[Re: dulcich]
#591817
01/26/10 01:37 PM
01/26/10 01:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 365
Motor City
Shaker223
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 365
Motor City
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Quote:
OK, I've been thinking about this, and I give. I'm going to build a custom turbo 2.0 out of a Neon and put it in my '68 Dart (Slant Six car). I'm going to shoot for 400hp at the wheels on a mild street tune and over 500 RWHP on high octane. Really.
-dulcich
Why bother, Just do the slant 6! Durable and cool.
Best comment I ever got was "I'm tired of looking at 500" big blocks"
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I know the people and the car Bob works with and I can assure you that no rock goes unturned and no expense is spared(accordingly)to make that lil mustang do what it does. Money plays a HUGE role but without the right parts and people in your corner,there are no guarantees that you will win races and set records let alone have it stay in one piece. I drove my pig 50+ miles today and had a blast........sure I`d love to have an 8-second driver but my heap makes me plenty happy.....FOR NOW! 
Oh yea, My tag frame reads " Education through humiliation"
I personally prefer the big "B" bodies and mine was a vision I had when I was 13 years old standing on the starting line at National Speedway on Long Island for the summer nationals.All the really fast cars had HEMI's,,all the really really fast cars had BLOWNHEMIS 
Grab you a 2.4 & get the srt rods & pistons right from Mopar for cheap... My spirit weighs 3400 so there's no problem weight wise & they make a trans adaptor for the 904 to bolt up..
