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The b'cast sheet holds your answer:
What is the 3 digit number under ENG on line 4?
What is the 2 digit number under CARB following it on line 4?

1970 N code 383s were both 335hp orange HPs with HOLLEY carbs & 330hp blue with CARTER carbs.

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Ebodyseast, your buildsheet has the answers to the part number of the motor and carb.

Please post the codes so we can learn more about this odd Mopar offering of two 70 383 4bbl motors. Educate us.

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I have a JH Challenger Convertible with N code, I will pull the build sheet tonight and post those codes. I am curious, hopefully someone can tell us what they mean. I also have the original carb 4218 Holley with N95 on the car. I went through the same thing before starting the resto, and decided to keep it original instead of another R/T clone.

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snip...the N code cars could have either the 330 or 335 horse 4 bbl engine....the SG30's do not differentiate between the two.I've seen 3 N code converts come up for sale in the last 3 years...only one had AC,one had the 335 horse eng with the 355 perf axle package and one had no fender tag...snip

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I've never seen production numbers for a 1970 3 speed 383 4bbl E hardtop or conv.



I would guess that 5 bh27's were N code and the other 31 were L code 330hp.

There were 17 BH27's built in '70 with 4bbl and 4 speed. I would guess 2 were N code, the other 15 L code.

FYI: The "L" code cars were only available in automatic, no standard transmissions, three or four speed exist whether BH or BP cars.

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Looks to me like you are not reading Dan's posts.They are not confusing.An L Code car is a 2bbl ...not a 4 bbl.Galens production figures are taken from the 1970 SG 30's...an option and accesories report printed every year that breaks down all the options by percentage points.As stated ..the N code cars could have either the 330 or 335 horse 4 bbl engine....the SG30's do not differentiate between the two.I've seen 3 N code converts come up for sale in the last 3 years...only one had AC,one had the 335 horse eng with the 355 perf axle package and one had no fender tag.The actual production figure for these cars is probably closer to 50 as the 36 figure is for US cars only....does not include Canadian cars or Export Cars.

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Exactly!! There were 59 total N code converts built in 70-6 3 speeds, 17 4 speeds, and 36 automatics. There are NO color breakdowns so 1 of 1's have to be verified only by known examples. I know of a guy around here who owns a JH23N0 Challenger that he was going to put all the stuff on a R/T body, but I told him it was rarer than the R/T and to build it as original. I hope he follows that advice. As far as the L vs N codes the L is for 2bbl and nothing else,not blue 4bbl or orange 4bbl but 2 bbl plain and simple. Either way you have a nice rare car and should enjoy it as such. I have a 6 cylinder 70 Challenger convert. I am waiting for some$$$ to restore and thats how it will be done

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snip...the N code cars could have either the 330 or 335 horse 4 bbl engine....the SG30's do not differentiate between the two.I've seen 3 N code converts come up for sale in the last 3 years...only one had AC,one had the 335 horse eng with the 355 perf axle package and one had no fender tag...snip

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I thought one question was did the buyer of a non 'Cuda or non R/T have the choice between serperate options of a 330hp or a 335hp ?? Or a choice in certain situations?

I understand it didn't show up on the SG report. But was there two seperate options and/or choices?

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HP was not an option to the buyer. It was part of the assembly proceedure and contingent on other factors such as A/C and tranny.

For example, a 69 Charger with Auto and/or A/C would not get the 335 horse engine but four speed non A/C cars did. The same thing for Road Runners and Super Bees. HP was standard but when equipped with A/C with either tranny, they got the 330 horse engine.

You can put together a matrix and see why it worked out this way. The purpose is to make as few engine assembly variations as possible.

The buyer had no selection in the process. There are no special sales codes for choosing an HP assembly over the 330 HP engine.

Nicholas, I really bit my tounge this AM when I read your first replys had have thought about how to reply for the last 6 hours.....

Intentionally or not, you have insulted one of the most knowledgeable and helpful members of this Board and the Mopar community. If anyone would be able and willing to help you, and provide documentation as to his answers, it would be Dan.

IMHO...it would be in your best interest to make amends and discover a little humility.

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GG had an article in a Mopar mag a few years back wherein he forecast his 'top ten' rarest E body conv's, the moulin rouge auto 318 made the top ten because of its rarity/desireability in color. Pink being more desireable over plain Jane EW1 white anyday of the week. This is off topic.

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My God, the attitude continues.

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GG had an article in a Mopar mag a few years back wherein he forecast his 'top ten' rarest E body conv's, the moulin rouge auto 318 made the top ten because of its rarity/desireability in color. Pink being more desireable over plain Jane EW1 white anyday of the week. This is off topic.

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Since when is the hobby based on one mans opinion? Like the old saying,"everyone has one"!

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That's not why I posted this question. The answer to your question has been posted. It's quite obvious its not clear yet , I have read many of the membes say they think, and then concede they think Dan is right, and he may be, GG costs too much to ask personally, he's the expert witness. GG is not the only person qualifed to speak on Mopars. He's just very visible and published. While he's acknowledged as a great source of info and respected for compiling a ton of useful information, his works and statments are know to contain errors.

Now then, I stated, I use the 1970 factory service manual, the 1970 Mopar parts catalog, and 1970 Barracuda owner's manual to find my answers. I have researched for 19 years, maybe not as hard as others here. In this official factory literature, it states, the N code 383 is a HiPo in 5th VIN digit, and all others are L code. This only leaves two versions, the 2bbl and the 4bbl 330hp. This does it for me, the N in the VIN for engine is only used for one engine, the 335hp Road Runner engine from 1968. No one has convinced me otherwise that there are mutiple N code engines, that goes against everything Mopar printed in their factory literature! Why belive anyone but Mother Mopar. The 70 N code is an administrative code that only indicates the car has a 383-4bbl. It does not tell you which version, HP or non HP, engine the car recieved. Only the broadcast sheet, or the tag on a Lynch Road built car, can verify which assembly the car car recieved

All info I've ever seen states the 335hp 383 was standard on 'Cuda and Challenger. What members here are saying is a 'Cuda or R/T with an automatic didn't get a super commando/magnum engine. That's not what has been said. Installation of the HP engine in some models was contingent on tranny. A/C is another component that affects whether or not the car got an HP engine. Wrong. For one, I have an article from a book 'Plymouth Barracuda' full of 1970 road tests by different magazines like Road and Track from Road test magazine June 1970 in where there is an automatic 383 'Cuda being tested and it has a SuperCommando pie tin and did the 1320 in 14.4 seconds @ 98.97 mph. Sounds like a hi po motor to me.

Think about it, why would they not install a HP motor in their two performance models, the Ebodies, just because customer ordered an automatic, that makes no sense. The carb certainly didn't give the extra 5 horses. The auto tranny did not affect which engine a 'Cuda recieved.

Also, break out a 1970 Mopar parts catalog if you have one handy. Fuel - section 14-11. The 383 4bbl automatic cars came with both Holleys and Carter's, it depends on shaker hood option, w/ECS, w/out ECS, a/c, no A/C as well as auto or manual (3 & 4 speeds). So there is another false statement provided by one member that only Carter's were installed on automatics. A 383 4BBL auto w/out A/C and w/out ECS came with either a Holley R4368A or a Carter 4736S, as is in my case, I got the Carter 4736S.

All 4bbl 383's had high compression 10.5 to 1 pistons, unless an export model. The 440HP cam and springs makes the extra 5 horses, not the Holly carb found on most 4 speeds.

So, what carb came on a 383 4bbl with a 3 speed? Depends on above.

My N code 383 does not have an HP stamped next to 383 on the pad near distributor hole. This too may be a clue. Always bothered me, kept me curious. If anything, there is difinitve proof your car is not an HP car and that N does not equal HP

Why am I wrong in quoting Mopar literature directly that all 1970 N codes are HP 383 335hp, & all others (290hp/330hp) are L code? Because that info is incorrect even if it is from Chrysler. Don't blame the messenger! I'll believe my Mopar literature before believing anyone here or anywhere for that fact. Then you will miss out on A LOT of very interesting information on this Board. Mopar issued publications that contain known errors or have been found to not be entirely correct. If you believe everything published by Mopar is absolutly, entirely and without question 100% correct is to do so at your own risk. You'd think that the added weight and power loss of the A/C would dictate the added 5 horses was neccessary.

Also, there were 59 2bbl E convs, but, there are also 59 total 4bbl's w/ 3, 4spd, and auto, combined, do the math, 118 total 383's built. It just so happens that adding 36 + 17 + 6 = 59 = the 59 2bbl as well = 118 total.

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My suggestion is to relax a little, pop a top on a cold drink, sit back, and read some of the posts by folks like Dan, Nigel and Randy. I think you'll find out how truly amazing some of these members are in their depth and breadth of knowledge and the resources they have at their fingertips. (plus they'll do it for free) There are some of the best e-body guys in the world on this site. You could learn a lot from them if you want...

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Also, there were 59 2bbl E convs, but, there are also 59 total 4bbl's w/ 3, 4spd, and auto, combined, do the math, 118 total 383's built.

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Sounds like you own a really rare and cool car.

The "N" code and E63 on the fender tag only tell you the car came with a 383-4bbl; it does not tell you which version, 330 horse or 335 horse, the car actually recieved. Many sources incorrectly list the 68 and 69 H code and the 70 N code as the HP version of the 383.

You need the broadcast sheet to know which engine assembly was installed.

"L" is the code for the 2bbl 383. I don't think I've seen a source that lists the "L" code for a 383-4bbl 330 horse car.

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Thanks for the great comments, it seems my manners were left at the door.

Do you also consider official 1970 Plymouth service manuals and official Mopar 1970-71 parts catalogs to be among the sources you 'know' that have incorrectly stated that N is a wrong code letter for 1970 HP 383 335hp?

If not an N, then what letter do you say your prayers to every night? If you were president of Chrysler in 1970...what code would you give the HP motors to differentiate to assembly workers that a 4 door Fury should never get a 'Cuda or R/T's V8? Its tantamount to saying that a 1970 R/T Chally got a 350hp 440 station wagon motor. Lol!!

'Cuda and Challenger were performance models, not 4 door grocery getters. They may have only gotten Hi Po motors installed, no two barrels, the Magnum and Super Commando engines and one hot 340. I like that, never say never, who am I to say. Don't you guys have the same Mopar factory books I do, why do you see it differently?

If one letter, N in this case, was designated for a HP engine, then all others naturally fall under a different letter, in this case, Mopar would give the 2bbl and non-performance 330hp 4bbl's the letter L. Non-performance 383 = L in VIN's 5th place. Just like a 440/440HP/440sxpk (T, U, V)

Also, I've never seen one source that lists a non-performance 330hp 383 as an N code!! Mopar sources state N is 383HiPerformance in 1970...only. Read...only. N = HiPerformance -nothing else, no other motors included. Why so hard to understand?

The sales code was E63, N codes installed into E Body - L code 330hp 4bbl into C body, B body 4 door, etc. Same with 440, non-performance engines installed into grocery getter, 375hp HiPo for all 'Cuda's and R/T's, GTX, etc. That is simple enough, keeps the non-optional Magnum engines from ending up in a 4 door Satellite.

Why would the N represent 383 4bbl's as a whole. The E63 was given to do just that - they didn't need to offer two distinctions, N and E63, did they?!?! Think about it before replying guys.

There were E61 L code 383 2bbl's, and E63 L code 383 4bbl non-HP 330 hp motors (most destined for 4 doors and the like.) Who agrees? Nobody here agrees?!?!

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Also since the car was a N95 California car it originally had the turn down exhaust which I changed

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Wow...you guys are the best, I knew I came to the right place for answers. I'll leave my opinions of GG at the door with my cockey attitude from now on.

I am totally seeing the bigger picture here. I too scanned my 70-71 Mopar parts catalog and found these same anomolies. I think I can agree that all 383's in 1970 were HiPo 335 hp. They all had the same 9.7 to 1 pistons had the same part # 440HP cam/lifters, same color coded valve springs, same oil pan w/ factory windage tray, etc.(BTW - I quoted my Road Test maazine June 1970 article when posting 10.5 to 1 compression earlier - should have checked my FSM first, oh no, one member is right that the factory literature is not always 100% correct)

Painting the engine blue or orange, what's the significance? Does A/C dictate or does Holley carb or does Tranny or a combo of above? Interesting topic. My engine is blue, has A/C, has Carter 4732S, has 727 auto, for the record, dual exhaust without cutouts and tips.

I'd like to hear back from the few members that stated I do not have an HP motor in their educated opinions...

I will say a motor should have been stamped with HP or HP2 on its pad, maybe not all were stamped, mine surely isn't.

I'm not exactly sure if L code is 2bbl only, neither is Dan, so you guys can argue, I'm done...to have that cold-one a member suggested earlier. (applause from crowd)

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I have a JH Challenger Convertible with N code, I will pull the build sheet tonight and post those codes. I am curious, hopefully someone can tell us what they mean. I also have the original carb 4218 Holley with N95 on the car. I went through the same thing before starting the resto, and decided to keep it original instead of another R/T clone.

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Rarity+high demand=Desirability

Just because a car (or other item) is 'rare' does not mean it is necessarily desirable. Many people confuse the two. A BS cuda will, all things being equal, be more desirable than a BH car. In fact, a rough cuda will always sell for more than a cleaner barracuda.

I have a 70 challenger (N code) that is a rallye hood away from being an R/T. But at the end of the day, the RT will always be more valuable/desirable than my car. If it really bothered me, I'd sell my car and buy an R/T.

Interestingly, a super bee is generally more desirable than a Coronet R/T, even though you get a bigger engine in the R/T! This is true to a lesser degree with road runners and GTXs as well.

My suggestion is to ignore the numbers and have fun with your car. It sounds like a winner to me!

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Right on Danan! Well said. Couldn't agree more, yet the obvious (to me anyway) is not so obvious to others. Oh well.

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Also since the car was a N95 California car it originally had the turn down exhaust which I changed

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It has nothing to do with California emissions. No JH car with the exception of the A66 ever came with rear exit bright tips.

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... as long as we are talkin' 1970!

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Also since the car was a N95 California car it originally had the turn down exhaust which I changed

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It has nothing to do with California emissions. No JH car with the exception of the A66 ever came with rear exit bright tips.

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Also since the car was a N95 California car it originally had the turn down exhaust which I changed

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It has nothing to do with California emissions. No JH car with the exception of the A66 ever came with rear exit bright tips.

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I have a JH Challenger Convertible with N code, I will pull the build sheet tonight and post those codes. I am curious, hopefully someone can tell us what they mean. I also have the original carb 4218 Holley with N95 on the car. I went through the same thing before starting the resto, and decided to keep it original instead of another R/T clone.

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Nice! What's the SPD of your car? Mine's 11-24 and I know of another similiarly well optioned JH27N0B car a few VIN's away from mine built the same day. Makes me wonder if any more were built the same day as these two?

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Why belive anyone but Mother Mopar.

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Scott ... Any b'cast numbers for ENG & CARB?

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2 - all 1970 "N"/E63 code 383s are 4bbl.
3 - all 1970 4bbl 383s painted blue have a CARTER carb and a 330hp rating.
4 - all 1970 4bbl 383s painted orange have a HOLLEY carb and a 335hp rating.

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Back when I was working on the blue car I wasn't sure about those details so I asked Galen what the car should have for an engine color and carb (since the engine was MIA with no BS or photo history on the car). He said that "N" code 383 cars with AC had blue 383's with Holley carbs so that's what we searched out and used. Doesn't matter anyway, it was sold in 93, probably has a Shaker hood and a Hemi by now anyway

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Heres a nicely optioned 71 L code 2bbl canukian car Oh ya...buddy that bought this car traded in a 69 340 GTS hardtop....dealer allowed $2500 on trade.

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round two ... ding-ding

1970 -
1 - The 383-2bbl and Carter 383-4bbl engines share the same cam & valve springs.
2 - The Holley 383-4bbl & the 440HP 4bbl engines share the same cam, valve springs w/damper, & windage tray.

as I see it -
The orange 383 engines were for the "muscle-cars" in Plymouth "pony car" speak - the "'Cudas", for plenty of show -n- go!
----- ( you won't find any blue-383s as original equiptment in one! )

The blue 383 engines were for the "personal luxury cars" in Plymouth "pony car" speak - the "Gran Coupe", plenty of torque for the added weight of A/C and other options. 2bbl or 4bbl? How do you like to roll? The b'cast above (thanks Nigel) shows a BP with a 4-spd w/HOLLEY & orange "HP" engine.
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BP with N/auto, A/C & 3.55s? any HOLLEYs on there? )
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BP with N/auto & 3.91s? I bet we have HOLLEYs on there! )

That leaves the Barracuda with a 383 - any way you want it.
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BH with N/auto, A/C & 3.55s? any HOLLEYs on there? )
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BH with N/auto & 3.91s? I bet we have HOLLEYs on there! )

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I took a closer look at the FSM, yes, the 2bbl and 4bbl 383 B and J (E bodies) did share a cam. You are correct here. The 383 4bbl for Dodge, Plymouth, Chrysler also had a separate cam, the 440HP cam's same part#. Bingo.

I also see 383 2bbl/4bbl springs are part#2658471 and 383 4bbl springs directly underneath are part#2658204. These must be the correct springs for 383HP. The 440HP springs are then carried over to all 1971 300hp 383's too. BTW - All 1971 383 4bbl are HP, SO THERE IS NO CONFUSION. Confusion exists in 1968-70 383 4BBLS & the A/C cars adds to it.

I see no mention of springs w/dampers in FSM for 440HP. I knew that street hemi springs had dampers. I'm 99.999% sure my engine has valve dampers in the springs. I'll inspect closer.

The windage tray was welded to the oil pan...yes? Unlike the modern Mopar trays that are separate items and sandwich between oil pan and block. Factory tray does not have its own part number. I can't find a windage tray anywhere in oil section, only an oil scraper for front of crank for all 340, 383, 440, & 426. The 383 has different pan then the 440 and hemi that share a pan. So the oil pan & windage tray would be found on all 383HP/335hp engines.

There is one Holley carb for 383 4bbl and H51 a/c: the R4369A - FSM REF#45. Its for a 383 w/727, w/A/C, and w/o ECS. This should be one of two or three correct carbs for a 335hp 'Cuda that was ordered with A/C. What you are saying is that it would not be blue, even when ordered with A/C because of the Holley carb. I think I can agree there too. A/C may not have dictated engine color, but may have dictated hp ratings.

There is no 4bbl Carter carb listed at all for a 383 and 3 or 4 spd, either w/A/C or w/o A/C. It seems only Holley supplied all carbs for all manual transmissions...So any BH/JH or BP and manual would be a 383HP by virtue of its Holley carb. Maybe, lets see a BCS or two surface to clear it up.

Is it the 3 digit engine code (087)of the BP 4 speed B-sheet that also convinces you it is an HP - forget the Holley carb code for a moment for arguements sake.

It seems the VIN line 4 code for 'Cuda engine would be 087 or other (088/089?) for 383HP and 086 or other (084/085?) for 330hp. If we can hear from you again on this oh great one, will be much abliged.

What still strikes me as odd and over looked.

The factory states N = 383HP and L = 383.

Mopars 70 FSM and 70-71 parts catalog never, repeat, never states L = 383 2bbl, never states that L = 383 330hp...just that L = 383. Period.

Remember guys that T = 440 and U = 440HP and V = 440 SxPK. There is a VIN distinction of either a T or a U for 440 and 440HP, then why not a VIN distinction for 383 and 383HP too?

So why does everyone seem to not see like I can that L = 383(2&4bbl/330hp) and N = 383HP 335hp.

6bblgt said that the internals are different and makes too confusing when ordering parts, but if the 2 and 4 bbl 330hp share the same cam/springs there is little confusion. Cast vs forged crank, there is a maltese cross on 2bbl's block to aid mechanics. All the parts counter person needs to know for pistons is: (1) is it a 2 or 4 bbl 383, easy enough, just pop the hood if owner or parts counter person is in doubt. Its more confusing to go in and say you have a 383 4bbl and need a cam and they say "which do you have a 330hp or a 335hp. Easy enough if you could simply go to the the 5th digit in car's VIN and end any confusion as N may stand exclusively for 383HP. You'd quickly get the right cam installed. Think about it.

You supplied a list earlier, a list of carbs and engine colors. Were did you get this list if you don't mind.

This list seems to dictate Holleys and orange paint verify HP383's and nothing else, no VIN distinction as the 3 different 440's (T, U, & V), so its very important to know. Customers weren't told or didn't know there was a broadcast sheet tucked under front seat, rear seat, or dash pad, or under front carpet, this was for assembly line workers not average car owner to produce to verify codes, some or most cars didn't even come with a b-sheet and some even had the wrong one. You need the VIN for help as it is readily visible and the fender tag has most options ordered on car for service replacement parts to be correct. GG said he started out reading fender tags for paint, not b-sheets! B-sheets only came about years later after cars were restored and seats and dash pads removed, years after.

I wonder now why Holley would get exclusive rights to all HP motors in any combo with A/C, ECS, shaker, etc. and even all w/out said featurs. For every Carter carb and combo, there was a Holley to match it, HP motors would never even need a Carter unless the factory ran out or supplies from Holley were delayed, etc. (leaking fuel bowls) only then would a Carter carb make it onto a 'Cuda or R/T, an engine still painted orange though. Lol!

What was wrong with Carters carbs that they may have been excluded from all the HP 383's, which is either cold hard facts or our best educated guess and opinion.

Guys, you are the best. Surround your self with the best and you'll go where you want to be.

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Makes me wonder if any more were built the same day as these two?

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round two ... ding-ding

1970 -
1 - The 383-2bbl and Carter 383-4bbl engines share the same cam & valve springs.
2 - The Holley 383-4bbl & the 440HP 4bbl engines share the same cam, valve springs w/damper, & windage tray.

as I see it -
The orange 383 engines were for the "muscle-cars" in Plymouth "pony car" speak - the "'Cudas", for plenty of show -n- go!
----- ( you won't find any blue-383s as original equiptment in one! )

The blue 383 engines were for the "personal luxury cars" in Plymouth "pony car" speak - the "Gran Coupe", plenty of torque for the added weight of A/C and other options. 2bbl or 4bbl? How do you like to roll? The b'cast above (thanks Nigel) shows a BP with a 4-spd w/HOLLEY & orange "HP" engine.
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BP with N/auto, A/C & 3.55s? any HOLLEYs on there? )
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BP with N/auto & 3.91s? I bet we have HOLLEYs on there! )

That leaves the Barracuda with a 383 - any way you want it.
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BH with N/auto, A/C & 3.55s? any HOLLEYs on there? )
----- ( who has a b'cast for a BH with N/auto & 3.91s? I bet we have HOLLEYs on there! )

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I took a closer look at the FSM, yes, the 2bbl and 4bbl 383 B and J (E bodies) did share a cam. You are correct here. We are good there. The 383 4bbl for Dodge, Plymouth, Chrysler also had a separate cam, the 440HP cam's same part#. Slightly confusing here is the mention of Chrysler along with Dodge and Plymouth. I don't recall any Chrysler that got a Super Commando/Magnum/TNT 383 335hp engine in '70.

I also see 383 2bbl/4bbl springs are part#2658471 and 383 4bbl springs directly underneath are part#2658204. These must be the correct springs for 383HP. The 440HP springs are then carried over to all 1971 300hp 383's too.

I see no mention of springs w/dampers in FSM for 440HP, just springs, enlighten us all if you will please. I knew that street hemi springs had dampers. I'm 99.98% sure my engine has valve dampers in the springs. I'll inspect closer and maybe send pics when I get back this weekend. Carry me back to ole Virginia. TY

The windage tray was welded to the oil pan...yes? My original pan also has the windage tray. Unlike the modern Mopar trays that are separate items and sandwich between oil pan and block. Factory tray does not have its own part number. I can't find a windage tray anywhere in oil section, only an oil scrapper for front of crank for all 340, 383, 440, & 426. The 383 uses a different pan part #2532401 then the 440 and hemi that share a pan part #32951564 (7 qt v 6qt?). So the oil pan w/ welded windage tray would be found on all 383's then...either 290/330/335. Not just HP 335hp engines.

There is one Holley carb for 383 4bbl and H51: the R4369A - REF#45. Its for a 383 w/727, w/A/C, and w/o ECS. This should be the correct carb for a 335hp 'Cuda that was ordered with A/C if you are indeed correct. What you are saying is that it would not be blue, even when ordered with A/C because of the Holley carb. I think I can agree there too.

There is no 4bbl Carter carb listed at all for a 383 and 3 or 4speed, either w/A/C or w/o A/C. It seems only Holley supplied all carbs for all manual transmissions...So any BH/JH or BP and manual would be a 383HP by virtue of its Holley carb. We are also good here too. Whew!!

Is it the 3 digit engine code in line 4 of the BP 4 speed B-sheet that also convinces you it is an HP - forget the Holley carb for a moment for arguements sake. I can't make out either codes in the pic he posted for carb or engine, what are they, what do they say? One says 202 I think, is it Canadian? Whatever. Please explain further. TY

It seems the VIN line 4 code for engine would be 087 for 383HP and 086 as in mine for a non HP? If we can hear from you again on this oh great one, will be much abliged.

What still strikes me as odd and over looked.

The factory states N = 383HP and L = 383.

Mopars 70 FSM and 70-71 parts catalog never, repeat, never states L = 383 2bbl, never states that L = 383 330hp...just that L = 383. Period.

Remember guys that T = 440 and U = 440HP and V = 440 SxPK. There is a VIN distinction of either a T or a U for 440 and 440HP, then why not a VIN distinction for 383 and 383HP too? Think about it. I have for 15+ years now.

So why does everyone seem to not see like I can that L = 383(2&4bbl/330hp) and N = 383HP 335hp.

Dan, you said that the internals are different and makes too confusing when ordering parts, but if the 2 and 4 bbl 330hp share the same cam/springs there is no confusion. Cast vs forged crank, there is a maltese cross on 2bbl's block to aid mechanics. All the parts counter person needs to know for pistons is: (1) is it a 2 or 4 bbl 383, easy enough, just pop the hood if owner or parts counter person is in doubt. Its more confusing to go in and say you have a 383 4bbl and need a cam and they say "which do you have a 330hp or a 335hp. Easy enough if you could simply go to the the 5th digit in car's VIN and end any confusion as N may stand exclusively for 383HP. You'd quickly get the right cam installed. Think about it.

You supplied a list earlier, a list of carbs and engine colors. Were did you get this list if you don't mind, what is it, where can the rest of us get one. I've never seen it and it may be a GG issued document Galen found that is genuine Chrysler literature, or maybe he made the list of engine colors over the years of his research. Please explain, is it a factory service bulletin, what?

This list seems to dictate Holleys and orange paint verify HP383's and nothing else, no VIN distinction as the 3 different 440's (T, U, & V), so its very important to know. Customers weren't told or didn't know there was a broadcast sheet tucked under front seat, rear seat, or dash pad, or under front carpet, this was for assembly line workers not average car owner to produce to verify codes, some or most cars didn't even come with a b-sheet and some even had the wrong one. You need the VIN for help as it is readily visible and the fender tag has most options ordered on car for service replacement parts to be correct. GG said he started out reading fender tags for paint, not b-sheets! B-sheets only came about years later after cars were restored and seats and dash pads removed, years after.

I wonder now why Holley would get exclusive rights to all HP motors in any combo with A/C, ECS, shaker, etc. and even all w/out said featurs. For every Carter carb and combo, there was a Holley to match it, so all HP motors would never even need a Carter unless the factory ran out or supplies from Holley were delayed, only then would a Carter carb make it onto a 'Cuda or R/T, probably still painted orange though. Lol!

What was wrong with Carters carbs that they were totally excluded from all the HP 383's, which is either cold hard facts or your best educated guess and opinion. I'm starting to believe both are true and facts and not opinions.

I love it guys, you are the best. Surround your self with the best and you'll go where you want to be.

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The windage tray was welded to the oil pan...yes?

I seriously doubt it.The scraper you speak of is the windage tray.pt.# 2863983.The 340 tray is listed first in the parts book along with the attaching bolts.Scraper = windage tray.Separate item,not welded to the pan.

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The windage tray was welded to the oil pan...yes?

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The windage tray was welded to the oil pan...yes?

I seriously doubt it.The scraper you speak of is the windage tray.pt.# 2863983.The 340 tray is listed first in the parts book along with the attaching bolts.Scraper = windage tray.Separate item,not welded to the pan.

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The windage tray was welded to the oil pan...yes?

I seriously doubt it.The scraper you speak of is the windage tray.pt.# 2863983.The 340 tray is listed first in the parts book along with the attaching bolts.Scraper = windage tray.Separate item,not welded to the pan.

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I think he talking about the sheet metal pan baffles in the sump. Did all 70 383's get that?

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I'm probably thinking oil pan sump baffles are a windage tray! Lol! I am clueless huh? Lol! Yes! I have a new in package Mopar w/tray for big block/hemi and its part #4120988 or something like that. So the original part# must have been superceded to this new # and added to my confusion.

The parts catalog mentions screw w/ washer for oil scraper is (4) required. The new tray from Mopar does not include any screws. What this must mean is the tray is secured o engine w/ these (4) screws w/washer. Yet the new w/trays from Mopar simply are attaced by the original (20) oil pan bolts/screws - that have a separate part# then the oil scraper screws. I wasn't aware the tray was attached to engine using 4 screws.

(And yet "Asteroids do not concern me Admiral." ~ Darth Vader)

Thanks forclearing this up guys:)

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The parts catalog mentions screw w/ washer for oil scraper is (4) required. The new tray from Mopar does not include any screws. What this must mean is the tray is secured o engine w/ these (4) screws w/washer. Yet the new w/trays from Mopar simply are attaced by the original (20) oil pan bolts/screws - that have a separate part# then the oil scraper screws. I wasn't aware the tray was attached to engine using 4 screws.

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The windage tray/scraper your looking at is small block..Attached to the special main bearing cap bolts...



The tray...



This place can be educational..

BTW for those who haven't seen a big block tray...

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Wow, 3 pages of this.

Does everyone (including Nick) agree that the "N" VIN code was used for both the 330 hp and 335 hp motors or not? and that the car in question (Barracuda, with A/C, blue engine, carter carb with no HP stamp) was originally equipped with the 330 hp motor?

Dave

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Never a doubt in my mind. This thread certainly clouded it up in a smoke amd mirrors kind of way. I think "east" had convinced himself that his "perception" of his materials was fact. I use to do the same thing, but then I joined Moparts

L=383 2bbl
N=383 4bbl (both flavors)

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Wow, 3 pages of this.

Does everyone (including Nick) agree that the "N" VIN code was used for both the 330 hp and 335 hp motors or not? and that the car in question (Barracuda, with A/C, blue engine, carter carb with no HP stamp) was originally equipped with the 330 hp motor?

Dave

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I one billion % agree, what was set in stone still is

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My head hurts.

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My head hurts.

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