Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built
[Re: ebodyseast]
#55607
04/03/08 09:22 AM
04/03/08 09:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,652 Calgary, Alberta Canada
m46rat
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Quote:
I've never seen production numbers for a 1970 3 speed 383 4bbl E hardtop or conv.
I would guess that 5 bh27's were N code and the other 31 were L code 330hp.
There were 17 BH27's built in '70 with 4bbl and 4 speed. I would guess 2 were N code, the other 15 L code.
FYI: The "L" code cars were only available in automatic, no standard transmissions, three or four speed exist whether BH or BP cars.
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Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built
[Re: ebodyseast]
#55611
04/03/08 10:15 AM
04/03/08 10:15 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,904 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
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Nicholas, You created a post asking other members what information they may have and what they think of your particular situation. They are complying with your original post. I think you need to step back and read YOUR responses again, take a deep breath, and hopefully realize how you're coming across. We are not as antagonistic or hardheaded as you may think or 'heard'. Lighten up a little.
Last edited by 69DartGT; 06/19/08 01:50 PM.
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Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built
[Re: ebodyseast]
#55612
04/03/08 10:32 AM
04/03/08 10:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 493 BFE
blue67440's
mopar
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What are you smoking? Dan is giving you a ton of info. to help you out and you're being a horse in return? Very nice. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/down.gif) 086 eng. code = 383 330hp with auto and a/c and painted blue. 40 = carter 4732s carb for 383 lp with a/c That's the facts, jack
Last edited by 69DartGT; 06/19/08 01:51 PM.
XP29L72 A833 in 881
XP29L72 A727 in 881
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Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#55614
04/03/08 11:26 AM
04/03/08 11:26 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
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![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/iagree.gif) bad post. I believe Dan is right: A/C, blue and carter = 330hp motor and 1 of 36 according to the info listed. Cheers, Dave
Last edited by 69DartGT; 06/19/08 01:52 PM.
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built
[Re: autoxcuda]
#55616
04/03/08 01:53 PM
04/03/08 01:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,948 Harlan, Iowa
69CoronetRT
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Quote:
Quote:
snip...the N code cars could have either the 330 or 335 horse 4 bbl engine....the SG30's do not differentiate between the two.I've seen 3 N code converts come up for sale in the last 3 years...only one had AC,one had the 335 horse eng with the 355 perf axle package and one had no fender tag...snip
I thought one question was did the buyer of a non 'Cuda or non R/T have the choice between serperate options of a 330hp or a 335hp ?? Or a choice in certain situations?
I understand it didn't show up on the SG report. But was there two seperate options and/or choices?
HP was not an option to the buyer. It was part of the assembly proceedure and contingent on other factors such as A/C and tranny.
For example, a 69 Charger with Auto and/or A/C would not get the 335 horse engine but four speed non A/C cars did. The same thing for Road Runners and Super Bees. HP was standard but when equipped with A/C with either tranny, they got the 330 horse engine.
You can put together a matrix and see why it worked out this way. The purpose is to make as few engine assembly variations as possible.
The buyer had no selection in the process. There are no special sales codes for choosing an HP assembly over the 330 HP engine.
Nicholas, I really bit my tounge this AM when I read your first replys had have thought about how to reply for the last 6 hours.....
Intentionally or not, you have insulted one of the most knowledgeable and helpful members of this Board and the Mopar community. If anyone would be able and willing to help you, and provide documentation as to his answers, it would be Dan.
IMHO...it would be in your best interest to make amends and discover a little humility. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Twocents.gif)
Last edited by 69CoronetRT; 04/03/08 01:57 PM.
Seeking:
1969 St. Louis plant VINs, SPD, and VONs. Over 2,000 thanks to you!
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Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built
[Re: ebodyseast]
#55618
04/03/08 02:24 PM
04/03/08 02:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,904 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
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Quote:
GG had an article in a Mopar mag a few years back wherein he forecast his 'top ten' rarest E body conv's, the moulin rouge auto 318 made the top ten because of its rarity/desireability in color. Pink being more desireable over plain Jane EW1 white anyday of the week. This is off topic.
My God, the attitude continues. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/whistling.gif)
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Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built
[Re: ebodyseast]
#55619
04/03/08 02:28 PM
04/03/08 02:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436 Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
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Quote:
GG had an article in a Mopar mag a few years back wherein he forecast his 'top ten' rarest E body conv's, the moulin rouge auto 318 made the top ten because of its rarity/desireability in color. Pink being more desireable over plain Jane EW1 white anyday of the week. This is off topic.
Since when is the hobby based on one mans opinion? Like the old saying,"everyone has one"! ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/whistling.gif)
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Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built
[Re: ebodyseast]
#55620
04/03/08 03:29 PM
04/03/08 03:29 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 500 NoVa
ebodyseast
OP
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For everyone's info, I did apologize, not to Dan pesonally, so now, Dan, I do aplogize for being a moron and a horse's [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] for 'striking' out after maybe implying I am here to convince myself and others that my car is rarer than it actually may or may not be. I may have even insulted you as one member here said, again, many apologies, sincerely. are we good? I hope so. I respect any one that spends time researching Mopar. I forgot my respect last night and the members have come down hard on me and rightly so...basically runnin' me outta town. That's not why I posted this question. It's quite obvious its not clear yet ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shruggy.gif) , I have read many of the membes say they think, and then concede they think Dan is right, and he may be, GG costs too much to ask personally, he's the expert witness. Now then, I stated, I use the 1970 factory service manual, the 1970 Mopar parts catalog, and 1970 Barracuda owner's manual to find my answers. I have researched for 19 years, maybe not as hard as others here. In this official factory literature, it states, the N code 383 is a HiPo in 5th VIN digit, and all others are L code. This only leaves two versions, the 2bbl and the 4bbl 330hp. This does it for me, the N in the VIN for engine is only used for one engine, the 335hp Road Runner engine from 1968. No one has convinced me otherwise that there are mutiple N code engines, that goes against everything Mopar printed in their factory literature! Why belive anyone but Mother Mopar. All info I've ever seen states the 335hp 383 was standard on 'Cuda and Challenger. What members here are saying is a 'Cuda or R/T with an automatic didn't get a super commando/magnum engine. Wrong. For one, I have an article from a book 'Plymouth Barracuda' full of 1970 road tests by different magazines like Road and Track from Road test magazine June 1970 in where there is an automatic 383 'Cuda being tested and it has a SuperCommando pie tin and did the 1320 in 14.4 seconds @ 98.97 mph. Sounds like a hi po motor to me. Think about it, why would they not install a HP motor in their two performance models, the Ebodies, just because customer ordered an automatic, that makes no sense. The carb certainly didn't give the extra 5 horses. Also, break out a 1970 Mopar parts catalog if you have one handy. Fuel - section 14-11. The 383 4bbl automatic cars came with both Holleys and Carter's, it depends on shaker hood option, w/ECS, w/out ECS, a/c, no A/C as well as auto or manual (3 & 4 speeds). So there is another false statement provided by one member that only Carter's were installed on automatics. A 383 4BBL auto w/out A/C and w/out ECS came with either a Holley R4368A or a Carter 4732S, as is in my case, I got the Carter 4732S. All 4bbl 383's had high compression 10.5 to 1 pistons, unless an export model. The 440HP cam and springs makes the extra 5 horses, not the Holly carb found on most 4 speeds. So, what carb came on a 383 4bbl with a 3 speed? Depends on above. My N code 383 does not have an HP stamped next to 383 on the pad near distributor hole. This too may be a clue. Always bothered me, kept me curious. Why am I wrong in quoting Mopar literature directly that all 1970 N codes are HP 383 335hp, & all others (290hp/330hp) are L code? Don't blame the messenger! I'll believe my Mopar literature before believing anyone here or anywhere for that fact. You'd think that the added weight and power loss of the A/C would dictate the added 5 horses was neccessary. Also, there were 59 2bbl E convs, but, there are also 59 total 4bbl's w/ 3, 4spd, and auto, combined, do the math, 118 total 383's built. It just so happens that adding 36 + 17 + 6 = 59 = the 59 2bbl as well = 118 total. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shruggy.gif)
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Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built
[Re: ebodyseast]
#55621
04/03/08 03:51 PM
04/03/08 03:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,545 Las Vegas, NV
6bblgt
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We're good. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbs.gif) last time around - '70 383 carbs Dragging the BS & JS cars into the questions may ad confusion instead of clarity. I'm sure there are orange HP 383s in BH & BP cars but not the majority. I doubt there are blue non-HP 383s in BS cars, but never say never. More to follow ... that "pesky" work thing getting in the way. ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
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Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built
[Re: ebodyseast]
#55622
04/03/08 05:52 PM
04/03/08 05:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 453
hemi71
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2003
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I pulled out my 70 parts manual myself...looked to see what the difference was between a 330HP 383 and a 335HP 383 in model year 1970.
The book lists a piston for a 2 bbl motor, a .020 O/S piston for a 2 bbl motor, and a piston for a 4 bbl motor. Note no different pistons for the 4bbl motors in 1970. They also list special "low compression" pistons for export..no model year specified. BTW, compression on the 383 in 1970 was 9.7 to 1, not 10.5 to 1. Even in 1968, the 383 HP engine had 10 to 1 comp, not 10.5 to 1.The owners manual on a 70 B'cuda states 9.7 to 1 for the 4bbl, 8.5 to 1 for the 2bbl 383, and also there is no differentiation between a 330HP engine and a 335HP engine. They only list a 383 2bbl and a 383 4bbl in the owners manual.
The cams have what looks like two listings...a 4 bbl cam with a .05 raised ring, and a 4bbl cam with out raised ring. Maybe someone can check in as to what this "raised ring" reference means?
As has been stated, the carbs are pretty specific to options, etc..on whether you got a Holley or a Carter. No mention of any 383 335hp or 330HP anywhere. No mention of a 383 4bbl NON-hi performance version engine there. Could a carb difference make a 5 HP difference? YES!
I looked thru the factory service manual to see if there was any different cam specs listed for the 383 4 bbl in 1970. The cam specs only show a 4bbl version, and a 2 bbl version. NO mention of any different cam specs for 4 bbl engines. One set of specs for 2bbl versions, one set for 4bbl versions.
I looked at the front of the FSM for the VIN decode...what it says is L=383 and N=383HP. Now seeing that there is no reference to any different 383 4bbl motors in either the FSM or parts book, it's obvious that the L or N in the VIN refers to a 383 2 bbl motor as a L code, and the 383 4bbl motor as a N code. So all 4 bbl 383's in 1970 are HP motors.
Why would ma Mopar have a VIN desigination of L equal either a 383 2bbl engine, or a 383 4 bbl engine? Those two engines have MANY external differences, IE...carbs, intake and exhaust manifolds, air cleaners, etc (not to mention the internal differences I show above)..that would cause WAY too much confusion when ordering parts.
So, is there a 335HP and a 330HP 383 in 1970 model year? From what i can see in the parts and service manuals, just a marketing ploy if anything. If i have some time, I'll research the 68 and 69 parts books i have to see if two different versions of a 383 4 bbl engine show up.
I just did a little further research as to heads/valves in 1970 383 4 bbls. looks like there are some differences in valve sizes on 383's in the non-performance car engines ( C bodies )but in the B and E body cars, all the 4bbl valves and heads are the same. Same with valve springs also, there are different versions for performance oriented car lines ( B and E ), and a different spring for the C bodies. No different springs amongst a car line. So, seeing this...there was a different 4 bbl 383, but it was used in the C bodies, and not mixed in like model lines. So there seems to be more here than just marketing, but different 4bbl 383's were not used from what i can see in the same model.
One more thing...what code on a broadcast sheet calls out a 383 4 bbl non-HP motor? E63 = 383 4 bbl HP, and E61 = 383 2bbl. Where is the 383 4 bbl without the HP designation?
Last edited by hemi71; 04/03/08 06:29 PM.
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Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built
[Re: ebodyseast]
#55623
04/03/08 05:56 PM
04/03/08 05:56 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,948 Harlan, Iowa
69CoronetRT
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I have a feeling I'm going to regret this..... Quote:
That's not why I posted this question. The answer to your question has been posted. It's quite obvious its not clear yet , I have read many of the membes say they think, and then concede they think Dan is right, and he may be, GG costs too much to ask personally, he's the expert witness. GG is not the only person qualifed to speak on Mopars. He's just very visible and published. While he's acknowledged as a great source of info and respected for compiling a ton of useful information, his works and statments are know to contain errors.
Now then, I stated, I use the 1970 factory service manual, the 1970 Mopar parts catalog, and 1970 Barracuda owner's manual to find my answers. I have researched for 19 years, maybe not as hard as others here. In this official factory literature, it states, the N code 383 is a HiPo in 5th VIN digit, and all others are L code. This only leaves two versions, the 2bbl and the 4bbl 330hp. This does it for me, the N in the VIN for engine is only used for one engine, the 335hp Road Runner engine from 1968. No one has convinced me otherwise that there are mutiple N code engines, that goes against everything Mopar printed in their factory literature! Why belive anyone but Mother Mopar. The 70 N code is an administrative code that only indicates the car has a 383-4bbl. It does not tell you which version, HP or non HP, engine the car recieved. Only the broadcast sheet, or the tag on a Lynch Road built car, can verify which assembly the car car recieved
All info I've ever seen states the 335hp 383 was standard on 'Cuda and Challenger. What members here are saying is a 'Cuda or R/T with an automatic didn't get a super commando/magnum engine. That's not what has been said. Installation of the HP engine in some models was contingent on tranny. A/C is another component that affects whether or not the car got an HP engine. Wrong. For one, I have an article from a book 'Plymouth Barracuda' full of 1970 road tests by different magazines like Road and Track from Road test magazine June 1970 in where there is an automatic 383 'Cuda being tested and it has a SuperCommando pie tin and did the 1320 in 14.4 seconds @ 98.97 mph. Sounds like a hi po motor to me.
Think about it, why would they not install a HP motor in their two performance models, the Ebodies, just because customer ordered an automatic, that makes no sense. The carb certainly didn't give the extra 5 horses. The auto tranny did not affect which engine a 'Cuda recieved.
Also, break out a 1970 Mopar parts catalog if you have one handy. Fuel - section 14-11. The 383 4bbl automatic cars came with both Holleys and Carter's, it depends on shaker hood option, w/ECS, w/out ECS, a/c, no A/C as well as auto or manual (3 & 4 speeds). So there is another false statement provided by one member that only Carter's were installed on automatics. A 383 4BBL auto w/out A/C and w/out ECS came with either a Holley R4368A or a Carter 4736S, as is in my case, I got the Carter 4736S.
All 4bbl 383's had high compression 10.5 to 1 pistons, unless an export model. The 440HP cam and springs makes the extra 5 horses, not the Holly carb found on most 4 speeds.
So, what carb came on a 383 4bbl with a 3 speed? Depends on above.
My N code 383 does not have an HP stamped next to 383 on the pad near distributor hole. This too may be a clue. Always bothered me, kept me curious. If anything, there is difinitve proof your car is not an HP car and that N does not equal HP
Why am I wrong in quoting Mopar literature directly that all 1970 N codes are HP 383 335hp, & all others (290hp/330hp) are L code? Because that info is incorrect even if it is from Chrysler. Don't blame the messenger! I'll believe my Mopar literature before believing anyone here or anywhere for that fact. Then you will miss out on A LOT of very interesting information on this Board. Mopar issued publications that contain known errors or have been found to not be entirely correct. If you believe everything published by Mopar is absolutly, entirely and without question 100% correct is to do so at your own risk. You'd think that the added weight and power loss of the A/C would dictate the added 5 horses was neccessary.
Also, there were 59 2bbl E convs, but, there are also 59 total 4bbl's w/ 3, 4spd, and auto, combined, do the math, 118 total 383's built. It just so happens that adding 36 + 17 + 6 = 59 = the 59 2bbl as well = 118 total.
My suggestion is to relax a little, pop a top on a cold drink, sit back, and read some of the posts by folks like Dan, Nigel and Randy. I think you'll find out how truly amazing some of these members are in their depth and breadth of knowledge and the resources they have at their fingertips. (plus they'll do it for free) There are some of the best e-body guys in the world on this site. You could learn a lot from them if you want... ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Twocents.gif)
Seeking:
1969 St. Louis plant VINs, SPD, and VONs. Over 2,000 thanks to you!
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Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built
[Re: ebodyseast]
#55624
04/03/08 06:17 PM
04/03/08 06:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,320 South, FL
cudaized
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Quote:
Also, there were 59 2bbl E convs, but, there are also 59 total 4bbl's w/ 3, 4spd, and auto, combined, do the math, 118 total 383's built.
Nick, Yes, you are correct in those figures. These are the totals for the Built for USA Specifications. To date, I have the following cars in the 1970-71 E-Body Convertible Registry: BH27N0B - 383 4 bbl engine USA specs D13 3-speed .... 1 car D21 4-speed .... 3 cars D32 Automatic . 7 cars Trans unknown . 1 car -------------------------- Total .............. 12 cars As per Scheduled Build Date, your car is the second to last one that I have in the Registry.
BH27L0B - 383 2 bbl engine USA specs Automatic ....... 14 cars
These cars are included in the Registry. I do have several more to add. Perhaps as many as 9 cars.
Send me an e-mail and we can discuss the Registry. I do not visit moparts.com that often. We haven't e-mailed since 98 and it would be good to talk about your convertible.
Ola Nilsson
cudaized@cudaized.com
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