Re: Oil System Mods For Big Block Refresher Course Please
[Re: 440Jim]
#544906
12/07/09 10:27 PM
12/07/09 10:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
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Re: Oil System Mods For Big Block Refresher Course Please
[Re: 440Jim]
#544907
12/08/09 01:09 AM
12/08/09 01:09 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,254 State of Fascism
52savoy
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,254
State of Fascism
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I don't know if it's creative or not.. but maybe all the years of working in construction, industrial maintenance/machine repair and cars taught me to look farther and try harder. Patience is the key to it being centered. I'm getting really good oil pressure with just the pump mods. The max wedge I just finished gets 80psi hot and 75 cold at idle. It will go over 90psi with some throttle.
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Re: Oil System Mods For Big Block Refresher Course Please
[Re: dart_73_br]
#544909
12/08/09 09:53 AM
12/08/09 09:53 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
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I don't know
He sent me both and to be hinset I didn't really look ath them all that hard.
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Re: Oil System Mods For Big Block Refresher Course Please
[Re: 52savoy]
#544910
12/08/09 10:44 AM
12/08/09 10:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,092 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,092
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
I don't know if it's creative or not.. but maybe all the years of working in construction, industrial maintenance/machine repair and cars taught me to look farther and try harder. Patience is the key to it being centered.
I'm getting really good oil pressure with just the pump mods. The max wedge I just finished gets 80psi hot and 75 cold at idle. It will go over 90psi with some throttle.
You might want to get the Milodon adjustable regulator and turn that pressure down some ???
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Re: Oil System Mods For Big Block Refresher Course Please
[Re: dart_73_br]
#544911
12/08/09 02:39 PM
12/08/09 02:39 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 977 Colorado
506RR
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 977
Colorado
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Quote:
Ok,
the SB pictures is duplicated. Is that right ? ....
Sorry about that! Yes, it is the same thing twice. Don't know why I did that. I only have the one page for small block oiling mods. Hope it helps someone out!
Thanks again for posting it up Bill!
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Re: Oil System Mods For Big Block Refresher Course Please
[Re: 52savoy]
#544913
12/08/09 05:04 PM
12/08/09 05:04 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 877 ky
68roadrunner
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 877
ky
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Quote:
I don't know if it's creative or not.. but maybe all the years of working in construction, industrial maintenance/machine repair and cars taught me to look farther and try harder. Patience is the key to it being centered.
I'm getting really good oil pressure with just the pump mods. The max wedge I just finished gets 80psi hot and 75 cold at idle. It will go over 90psi with some throttle.
[/quote
what kind of bearing clearance are you running with it?
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Re: Oil System Mods For Big Block Refresher Course Please
[Re: mopacltd]
#544916
12/09/09 07:30 PM
12/09/09 07:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957 West Coast, CA
Troy
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Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
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....The old rule of thumb is 10 psi. for every 1000 rpm. Now a days it is more like .8 or even .7 for every 1000 rpm. The key is volume, keeping the volume up and the pressure down is the key. Anything over 70 plus psi can cost you 10hp to 15hp easily. We make 1120hp and spin the engine to 8800rpm+.....the engine never sees over 70 psi. and no, it's not a dry sump.
....there is nothing like driving my 1968 Hemi Dart around town and having people looking at you like you're nuts!!
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Re: Oil System Mods For Big Block Refresher Course Please
[Re: Troy]
#544917
12/10/09 12:02 PM
12/10/09 12:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,254 State of Fascism
52savoy
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,254
State of Fascism
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Quote:
....The old rule of thumb is 10 psi. for every 1000 rpm. Now a days it is more like .8 or even .7 for every 1000 rpm. The key is volume, keeping the volume up and the pressure down is the key.
Anything over 70 plus psi can cost you 10hp to 15hp easily.
We make 1120hp and spin the engine to 8800rpm+.....the engine never sees over 70 psi. and no, it's not a dry sump.
yeah... I know all about it(decades old formula).... What bothers me about that "rule of thumb", using that logic 10psi at idle is ok. I don't know how you guys feel but I don't want any big block with less than 60psi at idle. I start to sweat when any of my motors have less than 60psi because it usually means bearing problems. Within a reasonable psi, volume means nothing if you aren't getting some pressure to get it where it needs to go.
IMO, That rule of thumb should be revised for maybe... 4000rpm and over?
Just my thoughts. Fred
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Re: Oil System Mods For Big Block Refresher Course Please
[Re: 440Jim]
#544923
12/11/09 01:54 PM
12/11/09 01:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,254 State of Fascism
52savoy
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,254
State of Fascism
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My thoughts are... There is only a few horsepower difference between having an oil pump with 60psi versus one with say.. 70 or 80psi. Not enough for me to take chances on overheating bearings, journals or rocker gear. Oil pressure doesn't rise at the same rate as rpm. It lags just a tad behind at first because it has to be forced through the oil passages, while the pistons,crank,valvetrain are already spinning fast. If you have close bearing clearances it can be argued either way... for or against it... But not enough oil can lead to overheated oil and burn engine parts. I like to run bearings a little loose(.002-.003) so I want my pressure to be 65-75 psi at idle hot and.. because I don't run over 7000rpm. Aftermarket blocks with revised oil passages don't apply IMO. This is for stock blocks and oil pumps because not everyone needs a WORLD block or Indy or Ray Barton oil pump. I've been building engines this way for ever and ever and never lost a bearing. ..until recently. But that was because of a mistake I made in bearing choices . 25psi@900rpm.. you scare me
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Re: Oil System Mods For Big Block Refresher Course Please
[Re: 52savoy]
#544925
12/11/09 03:06 PM
12/11/09 03:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,888 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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Weddington, N.C.
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My philosophy is pretty much this. ALL the oil has to pass through the pump and the filter...what is the point of a HV pump and a 1/2" pick up if the internals of the pump inlet and discharge are barely 3/8". it's like icreasing your motor displacement without porting your heads? The tricks Jim outlines are essentially those I've been doing for years on stock volume BB pumps and the one I built for the Moparts engine masters 470 motor so many years back now. With a race motor the pump demand requirement should be proportioanl to the RPM increase, pumping 25% more volume at idle and mid range speeds always seemed to me to be a relic of the past where we ran 40 and 50 weight oils and we made up for higher than normal pump demands by increasing the internal volume. As I have found and I think Jims back to back testing bear out) a ported SYSTEM from the pickup through the pump itself is typically way more than adequate and I would argue heats up the oil a lot less than pumping more volume through the same small "stock" pump inlet and outlet orifices. Does it save any power? maybe not enough to measure but it puts that much less stress on the timing chain and cam and in-turn the crank so it's more EFFICIENT if nothing else and as an engineer HP is about efficiency. I used to do all the drilling of the mains but please remember again this is how we used to do it before the super surfactant lower viscosity oils we havwe today.......back 40 yrs ago oil passages were made larger than required partly because engineers correctly factored in oil "coagulation" (like plaque build up in the atreries) over time with the older pariffin based stocks of years past. Now ironically engines suffer oil related failures from orifices designed smaller than prectical because engineers didn't factor for sub-grade "jiffy-lube" oil changes having the opposite effect. FWIW
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