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How accurate have your "budget" cranks really been?
#544560
12/04/09 10:26 AM
12/04/09 10:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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How accurate has the machine work on your "budget" cranks been? I see a lot of people post replies to various crankshaft questions (Eagle, 440 Source, K1, etc.) saying their part "checked out fine"... but what exactly does that mean? Are you saying you or your machinist measured all the journals for taper and cocentricty? Did someone put it in a crank grinder and check all that plus the accuracy of the stroke? Or did somebody give it a quicky visual  and tell you to "just run it..."? Have ANY of the "budget" cranks been checking out close enough to actually run out of the box, or do you need to expect to throw another couple hun $$$ to get the journals cut before bothering? BTW, this is NOT intended to start a  about one brand vs. another. It's more about a reality check on the quality and expectations you should have re: how good the parts are that are available these days at such a "bargain" price. 
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Re: How accurate have your "budget" cranks really been?
[Re: BradH]
#544561
12/04/09 11:12 AM
12/04/09 11:12 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,528
Mansfield, Tx
Jacob Pitt
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,528
Mansfield, Tx
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My 4.15 Ohio crank checked out good needeing no extra work. My 4.00 K1 crank checked out good needing no extra work. So far so good.
2013 NHRA D4 Stock Champ
#4 in the World IHRA Stock
2x IHRA Div.4 Stock Champ
14x Track Champ
All using a Ultimate Converter Concepts converter. Call Lenny today 704-892-6837
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Re: How accurate have your "budget" cranks really been?
[Re: Jacob Pitt]
#544562
12/04/09 11:29 AM
12/04/09 11:29 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
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I'm waiting for the big blow hards to come in with there all junk because his was .00005 off.
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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Re: How accurate have your "budget" cranks really been?
[Re: Jacob Pitt]
#544563
12/04/09 11:30 AM
12/04/09 11:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,123
Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,123
Niles , Ohio
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My machinist built a few strokers with 440 Source stuff.He was impressed with them for the price and they needed little or nothing.He is a stickler for perfection.Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: How accurate have your "budget" cranks really been?
[Re: rowin4]
#544564
12/04/09 11:42 AM
12/04/09 11:42 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
I'm waiting for the big blow hards to come in with there all junk because his was .00005 off.
really?
it sounds more like you don't want to hear the truth.
what is acceptable to some may not be to another.
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Re: How accurate have your "budget" cranks really been?
[Re: Jacob Pitt]
#544565
12/04/09 12:08 PM
12/04/09 12:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
My 4.15 Ohio crank checked out good needeing no extra work.
My 4.00 K1 crank checked out good needing no extra work.
That's exactly what I'm asking... what does "checked out good" mean as far as the extent of the inspection performed before giving it the ???
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Re: How accurate have your "budget" cranks really been?
#544566
12/04/09 12:08 PM
12/04/09 12:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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Current RPM brand 4340 steel crank was actually pretty good overall. It wasnt perfect..The index, and stroke was pretty good, but it did have some taper, and the journal finish wasnt the best, so it will be taken care of properly.
I usually expect some issue with these cranks. All though the crank before this one (440Source) was run OOTB with only some light polishing in a engine making pretty good power.
The crank before that one (Eagle) needed corrected. Again the stroke and index was tolerable, but the block was on the small end, and the crank was on the big...It had some taper also, instead of just using +.001 larger bearings we decided to turn the crank a hair and fix two problems at one time.
It boils down to what you think is acceptable..Some just live with it, ad scrap the bearings to make the crank fit.
I prefer just to cough up the extra money and have it fixed correctly.
Still way cheaper than some of the other name brand cranks that are also over sea's forgings..with supposed better over all fit.
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: How accurate have your "budget" cranks really been?
#544568
12/04/09 12:16 PM
12/04/09 12:16 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
S/ST 3040
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm waiting for the big blow hards to come in with there all junk because his was .00005 off.
really?
it sounds more like you don't want to hear the truth.
what is acceptable to some may not be to another.
50 millionths of an inch is acceptable for ANY tolerance I need. 
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Re: How accurate have your "budget" cranks really been?
#544569
12/04/09 12:50 PM
12/04/09 12:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
1968RR
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,943
San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm waiting for the big blow hards to come in with there all junk because his was .00005 off.
really?
it sounds more like you don't want to hear the truth.
what is acceptable to some may not be to another.
Here's the truth: I can machine a crank down more accurately than ANY machine shop in the world. Period.
I have full access to a scanning electron microscope (SEM) with a resolution of better than 5 angstroms and years of experience working with one (+ Ph.D. in physics). I also have access to vertical-cavity surface-emitting laser (typically used for semiconductor applications, but suitable for iron), capable of machining a crank to within a tolerance of 12 nm (that's 7 zeros to the right of the decimal before you get to the "1"). Using the SEM and VCSEL I can machine an entire crank. Given the fact that the etching process requires almost exactly 100 hours to etch and area of 1 cm^2 and I'll need at least 40 hours on the SEM per square cm to check tolerances, AND the fact that the approximate journal surface of a BB Mopar crank is 660 cm^2, AND the fact that I have to purchase time on both the SEM and VCSEL ($135/hour on the SEM and $1700/day on the VCSEL) in order to do this, you're looking at a $17589000 price tag for me to machine your crank better than ANYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD CAN.
I'll even throw in free shipping if you place your order before 5 p.m. today!
I guess everyone has their standards as to what's acceptable. 
"When I'm in a slump, I comfort myself by saying if I believe in dinosaurs, then somewhere, they must be believing in me. And if they believe in me, then I can believe in me." - Mookie Wilson
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Re: How accurate have your "budget" cranks really been?
[Re: 1968RR]
#544571
12/04/09 01:06 PM
12/04/09 01:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'm waiting for the big blow hards to come in with there all junk because his was .00005 off.
really?
it sounds more like you don't want to hear the truth.
what is acceptable to some may not be to another.
Here's the truth: I can machine a crank down more accurately than ANY machine shop in the world. Period.
I have full access to a scanning electron microscope (SEM) with a resolution of better than 5 angstroms and years of experience working with one (+ Ph.D. in physics). I also have access to vertical-cavity surface-emitting laser (typically used for semiconductor applications, but suitable for iron), capable of machining a crank to within a tolerance of 12 nm (that's 7 zeros to the right of the decimal before you get to the "1"). Using the SEM and VCSEL I can machine an entire crank. Given the fact that the etching process requires almost exactly 100 hours to etch and area of 1 cm^2 and I'll need at least 40 hours on the SEM per square cm to check tolerances, AND the fact that the approximate journal surface of a BB Mopar crank is 660 cm^2, AND the fact that I have to purchase time on both the SEM and VCSEL ($135/hour on the SEM and $1700/day on the VCSEL) in order to do this, you're looking at a $17589000 price tag for me to machine your crank better than ANYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD CAN.
I'll even throw in free shipping if you place your order before 5 p.m. today!
I guess everyone has their standards as to what's acceptable.
Will you take a two party out of state check? Only the best is going in my 38 year old block.
I'm sure Scat,Eagle,and all the others use that same machine,..........
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Re: How accurate have your "budget" cranks really been?
[Re: BradH]
#544575
12/04/09 01:47 PM
12/04/09 01:47 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 774
Southington Ct.
turbobitt
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 774
Southington Ct.
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Bought a 4.5 K1 crank from Dram and checked it out myself. I checked size and taper by measureing at least 4 places on each journal, 2 of them 90 degrees from each other. I didn't measure or stroke. I found that there was negligible taper and concentricity was excellant. I don't know the numbers off hand but the sizes of the main journals were on the small end of the tollerance range but done so on purpose. I didn't need to do any additional machining to use the crank other than ballancing. Overall, finish of the crank was very good. My machinest verified my measurments before ballancing.
Allan G.
1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy.
1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno.
1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
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Re: How accurate have your "budget" cranks really been?
#544576
12/04/09 01:48 PM
12/04/09 01:48 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
Von
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Brad,
PM Wayne (Big Squeeze) and see what his findings have been.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: How accurate have your "budget" cranks really been?
#544578
12/04/09 02:03 PM
12/04/09 02:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
Are you really going to pull that perfectly fine engine apart and have it down for another ten years?  
Nope... unless I manage to hurt it. 
This question is research for what to put into the already-machined backup block. I'm planning to stick w/ a 3.75" stroke so as to not completely screw with a good combination when I need to pull the current engine. However, I'm doing a sanity check on what to expect, budget for, etc.
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