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Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: Hazwoy] #532210
12/26/09 04:00 AM
12/26/09 04:00 AM
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Los Angeles
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Hazwoy Offline OP
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To sum up if you have a vibration issue similar to mine first area to look is THE DAMPER. 360 engines are external balance and sensitive to being out of balance when damper gets old. Also try a different tranny mount. Rubber may cushion better than poly, maybe not if engine in good tune and balance.

Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: Hazwoy] #532211
12/26/09 04:50 AM
12/26/09 04:50 AM
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So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
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Quote:

To sum up if you have a vibration issue similar to mine first area to look is THE DAMPER. 360 engines are external balance and sensitive to being out of balance when damper gets old. Also try a different tranny mount. Rubber may cushion better than poly, maybe not if engine in good tune and balance.




Would be curious if you put on that new style poly prothane bushing whether it would add or not change any vibrations you have now.

I have heard that the poly trans mounts just magnify any vibration you have.

I know someone with a complete resto'd Challenger T/A that changed from poly to rubber and it helped a bunch. But after that, did a pinion angle correction and made a big difference.

The thing about the Summit brand balancer is a tough one to diagnose. I mean if it was new and didn't skip it marks, how could you check if it was bad?? Should we just avoid Summit brand dampners??

Hazwoy, did that Summit balancer show any sign of rubber gushing out or not looking uniform??

Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: autoxcuda] #532212
12/26/09 05:24 AM
12/26/09 05:24 AM
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Hazwoy Offline OP
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For the life of me I cannot imagine why The Summit damper didn't work. It looks to be counterbalanced the same way and only one application for 1971-1992 Dodge 360. All I know is it looked great, ran straight but my problem was not resolved until I rebuilt and installed original damper. Stock has weight removed for proper balance, Summit instead has weight added to opposite direction and side. Can send you detailed pics of damper if you like (autoxcuda) Tried to post pics, didn't work.

As for as poly mount I do plan to reinstall and see if it does indeed magnify vibrations. The poly mount looks to be much more heavy duty. Will take a week I am out of town


As for pinion angle it may help (my car is lowered) but my vibration was consistant whether in park/neutral or driving

Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: Hazwoy] #532213
12/26/09 11:04 AM
12/26/09 11:04 AM
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So Cal
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Quote:

For the life of me I cannot imagine why The Summit damper didn't work. It looks to be counterbalanced the same way and only one application for 1971-1992 Dodge 360. All I know is it looked great, ran straight but my problem was not resolved until I rebuilt and installed original damper. Stock has weight removed for proper balance, Summit instead has weight added to opposite direction and side. Can send you detailed pics of damper if you like (autoxcuda) Tried to post pics, didn't work.




If you email me pics I'll resize them and post them. Are you saying the Summit balancer and the OE (or the balancer you had before) look identical except for the weight added on the opposite side?

Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: autoxcuda] #532214
12/27/09 02:42 AM
12/27/09 02:42 AM
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Hazwoy Offline OP
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Here are the pics...

Old stock damper- external balance is done by material removed on front near TDC (cutout centered around 1:30)


Summit damper- external balance done by adding weight to opposite side on back away from TDC (weight added around 7:30[front])
(notice key in relation to counterweight)

Rebuilt stock damper- the one that works!

Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: Hazwoy] #532215
12/27/09 04:17 AM
12/27/09 04:17 AM
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So Cal
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Quote:

Here are the pics...




Did you notice anything thing wrong or different with your old dampner compared to when they rebuilt it?

Did Dampner Doctor mention what they found wrong with your old dampner?

What did Dampner Doctor charge? Sounds like a good resource. Will have to file that one away for future use or pass it along to others.

Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: autoxcuda] #532216
12/27/09 05:01 AM
12/27/09 05:01 AM
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Hazwoy Offline OP
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No I did not notice anything wrong with damper upon inspection. It did have maybe 1/16" wobble at crank pulley compared to dead on straight with Summit or rebuilt damper. Here are close up pics. If you look at closely at about 1 o'clock you can see the rubber ring just slight deformed. On back side if you looked really close you could see just the slightest bulge at 7 o'clock (opposite side). Anyway bottom line- didn't really look like it was messed up to me.



Damper Doctor actually added a bit of confusion to the mix even tho they fixed the problem. My block is 1989-1992 360 truck motor (junkyard receipt) but Damper Doctor receipt said my damper was 1993. When I called to verify boss wasn't in, when I called back assistant said Doctor said receipt incorrect, damper was 1992. Never said if they found anything wrong, just rebuilt per request. Cost was $112 including shipping. Mailed Priority Thursday, got back Wednesday

Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: Hazwoy] #532217
01/01/10 11:37 AM
01/01/10 11:37 AM
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Desert Tracker
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HYPER8oSoNic Offline
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Quote:

No I did not notice anything wrong with damper upon inspection. It did have maybe 1/16" wobble at crank pulley compared to dead on straight with Summit or rebuilt damper. Here are close up pics. If you look at closely at about 1 o'clock you can see the rubber ring just slight deformed. On back side if you looked really close you could see just the slightest bulge at 7 o'clock (opposite side). Anyway bottom line- didn't really look like it was messed up to me.



Damper Doctor actually added a bit of confusion to the mix even tho they fixed the problem. My block is 1989-1992 360 truck motor (junkyard receipt) but Damper Doctor receipt said my damper was 1993. When I called to verify boss wasn't in, when I called back assistant said Doctor said receipt incorrect, damper was 1992. Never said if they found anything wrong, just rebuilt per request. Cost was $112 including shipping. Mailed Priority Thursday, got back Wednesday




Sometimes the hub can shift it position, in
relationship to where the TDC (0 Mark) is as
it was made in the factory. The movement could
be slight enough, that to the untrained eye it
could look normal. Rubber DOES deteriorate with
age, and that is a major contributor to damper
problems/engine vibration. As far as the noise
level and "droning", I believe that a good
exhaust setup with a crossover would solve your
noise problem. Part of the problem is the chioce in mufflers, some are not as good as others.
Check around before you plunk down your cash
for them. It is a matter of balancing noise/
quality/performance here, don't be afraid to do
your homework on this. You might be surprised to
choose a system that would net you maybe 20 hp
more than your current setup, and be a lot more
quieter while cruising. Food for thought! Also
your carb air/fuel ratio and jetting is involved in this too. Have it "fine tuned" after replacing
the system. You could pull a couple more "free
ponies" and make your ride more efficient too.
That would be easier on your wallet at the pump
and "Joe Law" would be happy too, not writing you a noise ticket. All in all a better cruiser.




"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #532218
01/01/10 11:45 AM
01/01/10 11:45 AM
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Make SURE that when they hang your exhaust, pipes
DON'T TOUCH the frame and they use RUBBER isolated
hangers, NOT solid ones (vibration from pipe
transmits to frame, not good!!). Good luck with
it!!



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: Hazwoy] #532219
01/01/10 12:50 PM
01/01/10 12:50 PM
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Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit Offline
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Quote:

To sum up if you have a vibration issue similar to mine first area to look is THE DAMPER. 360 engines are external balance and sensitive to being out of balance when damper gets old.




There are 2 styles of factory 360 dampers - yours, which I call new style, and the old style (which I prefer) that the weight is ADDED to the center hub, not taken out of the outer ring. On the old style, (on the left in the photo from the archives) the weight is added to the outside of the center hub, so the "imbalance" of the outer ring doesn't stress the rubber cushions like the new style. The new style probably work well enough for you, since you probably don't spin the motor much above 5500. Above that, the RPM will start to work and wear the rubber ring, causing the outer ring to rotate or wobble, causing a vibration. I don't know the years that the old style ones came from, but I grab them when I see them.

5703023-damper360.JPG (164 downloads)

Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: autoxcuda] #532220
01/12/10 08:05 PM
01/12/10 08:05 PM
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Los Angeles
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Hazwoy Offline OP
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So I put back in the poly tranny mount to see if it made a difference now that the vibration is mostly solved with the rebuilt damper. Been driving around for the last week and I believe it does cause a SLIGHT increase in noise and vibration but only slightly. I am going to keep it in. 98% of my problem was the damper being out of balance.

Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: Hazwoy] #532221
02/18/10 06:52 AM
02/18/10 06:52 AM
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Hazwoy Offline OP
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Well I chopped off the old exhaust before replace the whole exhaust system. Droning and off idle vibration changed slight in the tone but not substance. Interesting how dumping exhaust right after mufflers adds a low overtone to sound of whole system. Replaced old 2/14" with 2 1/2' system. Really awesome sound but after gas tank repair I will run tail pipes over axle or out to rear panel.

Anyway only possible component left to replace is torque converter. My tranny just started going bad so that is next on the list....

Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: Evil Spirit] #532222
02/19/10 05:21 PM
02/19/10 05:21 PM
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Quote:

There are 2 styles of factory 360 dampers - ... On the old style, (on the left in the photo from the archives) the weight is added to the outside of the center hub, so the "imbalance" of the outer ring doesn't stress the rubber cushions like the new style.





Very good point, never thought about that. Putting the imbalance outside the rubber might help the damper tune out slight errors in balance but will add stress to the rubber.


Quote:

So I put back in the poly tranny mount to see if it made a difference now that the vibration is mostly solved with the rebuilt damper.




The transmission mount isn't a moving part and therefore can't be a source of vibration. Putting in a stiffer mount will certainly TRANSMIT more vibration from the transmission to the passengers, after all, it was put in there just for the purpose of isolation vibrations.

Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: @#$%&*!] #532223
02/19/10 05:41 PM
02/19/10 05:41 PM
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Port Huron, Michigan
MI_Custumz Offline
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But if your transmission mount is shot, wouldn't it cause a vibration?

Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: MI_Custumz] #532224
02/19/10 11:08 PM
02/19/10 11:08 PM
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Hazwoy Offline OP
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Same vibration in neutral as in drive. Must be a rotating part out of balance harmonic damper to torque converter inclusive. I am getting different opinions on whether a torque converter can go out of balance but it is the only logical part i haven't touched yet.

I guess I will find out soon...

Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: Hazwoy] #532225
03/14/10 11:57 PM
03/14/10 11:57 PM
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SO... I solved all the vibration when I replaced my torque converter and transmission. Got a street/strip 904 from Bob Mazzolini Racing and a Hughes 2000 stall torque converter. Really like both. SO vibration in my case was bad tranny mount, bad harmonic damper and bad torque converter. ALL vibration is gone, but I still have a bit of pulsating droning inside the car at 2700 rpm in neutral or drive. It is really weird- you can hear/feel pulsating in the car but outside it seems as if engine and exhaust DON"T pulsate at all. I am positive this is an exhaust issue. Will let u know when I finally sort it out.

Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: Hazwoy] #532226
03/19/10 07:57 PM
03/19/10 07:57 PM
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At Last! Got rid of that last bit of annoying pulsating drone in the car at 2700 rpm. You would not believe it- it is the alternator/belt system. Went to put on new belts, PS first. Start car, NO drone. drove for a day to make sure. Added alternator belt and drone returned. Tried adjusting tighter and then looser till it finally wet away. On my belt system alternator belt wraps around crank pulley and alternator only. Now I have 1 to 1 1/4" belt deflection but it did the trick.

Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: Hazwoy] #532227
03/19/10 09:29 PM
03/19/10 09:29 PM
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Very cool post.
Thanks.

Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: Hazwoy] #532228
03/19/10 09:47 PM
03/19/10 09:47 PM
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Quote:

Got rid of that last bit of annoying pulsating drone in the car at 2700 rpm. You would not believe it- it is the alternator/belt system.


I dont believe it


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Help! Vibration Issue!!! [Re: RapidRobert] #532229
07/26/14 01:19 PM
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I don't mean to hijack this thread but it seems you guys have been a lot of help in this balancing issue. I'm having a similar issue. I have an old B-250 ram camper van that I'm fixing up. It had a tired 318 2bbl and A999 trans so with a long trip coming up I decided to upgrade it to a jasper reman 360 with jasper reman A999 trans. (I wanted to retain the lock-up in the A999 for extended highway driving) Being a gm guy I didn't have a clue the 318 was internally balanced and the 360, well wasn't. Needless to say it rattles your teeth, steering column, seats and whole van off idle and gets worth with rpm, in neutral or driving. I know now I have to get a 360 harmonic balancer, that's easy. But now I have a fresh A999 trans bolted up and B&m says that there #10239 flexplate wont correct it with the A999 convertor, they had nothing available to help me. I have a lot of cash invested and the 5000 mile round trip to Utah approaching quickly. Does someone make an externally balanced convertor with lock-up for the 360 that will work in this A999? Or do you know of a place I can ship this convertor to to have them set it up correctly??? I'm getting real desperate at this point and would be greatfull for any advise. I've been a Gm tech for 20 years and you can call on me anytime for help in that area, I would be glad to return the favor, thx! Shawn 973-592-2037

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