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Re: Console Question [Re: autoxcuda] #50547
12/18/07 07:55 AM
12/18/07 07:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,205
North Dakota
6PakBee Offline
master
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Posts: 9,205
North Dakota
Quote:

.....Even worse, if someone else wanted to reproduce this console the correct way with the correct curvature, who would do it now? The market is so tight two choices for parts kills it.

So the first guy to the dance spoils it if they mess up.




I don't know. If the demand is there to support making the part and Company A is making the part exactly as original and Company B is making one that is so bad it doesn't fit, would anybody buy Company B's part? Even if it was a sizable price difference, who would buy something that won't fit? As long as the pricing is comparable to good used, I think Company A would make it and Company B wouldn't. If there was a vendor making perfect E-body door panels, do you think the current vendor would ever sell another one?


"Only the best and brightest"
Re: Console Question [Re: 6PakBee] #50548
12/18/07 10:27 AM
12/18/07 10:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 49
Toronto, ON
S
stimpy Offline
member
stimpy  Offline
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Posts: 49
Toronto, ON
Is there anyone out there who restores the console plates?

Re: Console Question [Re: stimpy] #50549
12/22/07 11:47 PM
12/22/07 11:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT Offline
Management Trainee
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Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
Quote:

Is there anyone out there who restores the console plates?




69-70 plates you can probably find a plater who will do a good job, it won't be cheap but it can be done, 68 has allot more detail where the woodgrain is on a 69-70... My high end plater guy quoted $1,200.00 four years ago with no garantee of what would happen price or finished product wise till he had striped the original chrome...

Re: Console Question [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #50550
12/23/07 09:29 AM
12/23/07 09:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,984
Montreal,Quebec,Canada
J
JulesdaWiperman Offline
super gas
JulesdaWiperman  Offline
super gas
J

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,984
Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Sometimes the thinking of these Companies is that consumers should be happy that they made the part to begin with.
All little trimming here and there is better than an all pitted part. Or if only 3 out of ten come back, that's not bad.
I strongly disagree with this thinking. If one is going to invest substantial sums of money to reproduce a part,
then please make sure you trial fit your prototype and once it fits, go ahead and market the devil out of it.
Word gets around fast when a part is top notch and this promotes other parts you may have for sale. A bad part will
do lots of damage to your name. I guess it sometimes boils down to what is more important: making money or making quality.
My thinking is that if you make quality to begin with, the money will follow.
Jules

Re: Console Question [Re: JulesdaWiperman] #50551
12/23/07 09:54 AM
12/23/07 09:54 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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HPMike Offline
master
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master
H

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
Quote:

Sometimes the thinking of these Companies is that consumers should be happy that they made the part to begin with.
All little trimming here and there is better than an all pitted part. Or if only 3 out of ten come back, that's not bad.
I strongly disagree with this thinking. If one is going to invest substantial sums of money to reproduce a part,
then please make sure you trial fit your prototype and once it fits, go ahead and market the devil out of it.
Word gets around fast when a part is top notch and this promotes other parts you may have for sale. A bad part will
do lots of damage to your name. I guess it sometimes boils down to what is more important: making money or making quality.
My thinking is that if you make quality to begin with, the money will follow.
Jules




My thoughts exactly...

I just fail to understand the logic behind some of these reproduction parts. Take the E body door panels. I think they are terrible. Or the Just Dashes supposedly "concours"(a term that they use in their advertising) dash services. Or the poor fitting repop rallye trim rings. If you are going to go through the trouble, why not make it right??

Mike

Re: Console Question [Re: imfixinmopars426] #50552
12/23/07 11:39 AM
12/23/07 11:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,622
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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NITROUSN Offline OP
I Live Here
NITROUSN  Offline OP
I Live Here
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,622
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
I sent BEA an e-mail on the lid fitting issues but never got an answer. Maybe he will see this and respond.

Re: Console Question [Re: NITROUSN] #50553
12/23/07 11:45 AM
12/23/07 11:45 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,419
Back in NJ....
E
EWJ Offline
master
EWJ  Offline
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E

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,419
Back in NJ....
Quote:

I sent BEA an e-mail on the lid fitting issues but never got an answer. Maybe he will see this and respond.




Hope so...I have a set as well, not yet installed.


Ed
EastCoast Land Yacht Assoc.
1967 Newport Conv: 440/4 speed
1969 GTX: 440/4 speed, TX9/TX9, A34, N96
1970 Super Bee: 383/4 speed F8/F8
1970 Super Bee: 383/4 speed, B5/B7
1970 Coronet RT: 440/4 speed, A34, N96
1970 Road Runner convertible: 383/4 speed TX9/D6XW
2001 Dodge 2500 HO CTD, 6 speed, 4x4 quad cab long bed
"The early bird may get the worm, but the 2nd mouse gets the cheese".
Re: Console Question [Re: JulesdaWiperman] #50554
12/23/07 12:48 PM
12/23/07 12:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,161
Richmond, VA
R
rayztoy Offline
super stock
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super stock
R

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,161
Richmond, VA
Quote:

Sometimes the thinking of these Companies is that consumers should be happy that they made the part to begin with.
All little trimming here and there is better than an all pitted part. Or if only 3 out of ten come back, that's not bad.
I strongly disagree with this thinking. If one is going to invest substantial sums of money to reproduce a part,
then please make sure you trial fit your prototype and once it fits, go ahead and market the devil out of it.
Word gets around fast when a part is top notch and this promotes other parts you may have for sale. A bad part will
do lots of damage to your name. I guess it sometimes boils down to what is more important: making money or making quality.
My thinking is that if you make quality to begin with, the money will follow.
Jules



Mike @ BEA is the exception, a good guy and always does the right thing. Call him about your concerns!

Re: Console Question [Re: NITROUSN] #50555
12/26/07 11:24 PM
12/26/07 11:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,622
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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NITROUSN Offline OP
I Live Here
NITROUSN  Offline OP
I Live Here
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,622
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
Quote:

I sent BEA an e-mail on the lid fitting issues but never got an answer. Maybe he will see this and respond.




He does not care to respond. Its all about selling and no customer service. E-mails. PM's on two sites and he wont address the issue.

I would like to buy upper charger door panels all 4 and a dash pad along with many more items. But I am having second thoughts.

Last edited by NITROUSN; 12/26/07 11:27 PM.
Re: Console Question [Re: JulesdaWiperman] #50556
12/28/07 08:32 AM
12/28/07 08:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 924
O
OLD318 Offline
super stock
OLD318  Offline
super stock
O

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 924
Quote:

Sometimes the thinking of these Companies is that consumers should be happy that they made the part to begin with.
All little trimming here and there is better than an all pitted part. Or if only 3 out of ten come back, that's not bad.
I strongly disagree with this thinking. If one is going to invest substantial sums of money to reproduce a part,
then please make sure you trial fit your prototype and once it fits, go ahead and market the devil out of it.
Word gets around fast when a part is top notch and this promotes other parts you may have for sale. A bad part will
do lots of damage to your name. I guess it sometimes boils down to what is more important: making money or making quality.
My thinking is that if you make quality to begin with, the money will follow.
Jules





Here is what I don't get... We're days away from 2008 not 1968.. With CAD/CAM, and todays's technology..

Why is it a company today can't satisfactorily produce a 40 year old part at LEAST as good as its 1968 counterpart?

What manufacturing processes existed in 1968 that allowed a company to produce a top plate for a console that today's technology just can't do?

Our IPods and Cell phones have more technology that all of NASA had when we went to the moon
in 1969

But we still can't make a simple plastic/metal part? We were able to do this 40 years ago?
But we can't today?

C'mon... don't give me this union crap
We had unions in the late 60's even more then
than now!!!

What gives... why is this so hard to do?

Re: Console Question [Re: OLD318] #50557
12/28/07 09:22 AM
12/28/07 09:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,205
North Dakota
6PakBee Offline
master
6PakBee  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,205
North Dakota
Quote:

.....Here is what I don't get... We're days away from 2008 not 1968.. With CAD/CAM, and todays's technology..

Why is it a company today can't satisfactorily produce a 40 year old part at LEAST as good as its 1968 counterpart?

What manufacturing processes existed in 1968 that allowed a company to produce a top plate for a console that today's technology just can't do?

Our IPods and Cell phones have more technology that all of NASA had when we went to the moon
in 1969

But we still can't make a simple plastic/metal part? We were able to do this 40 years ago?
But we can't today?

C'mon... don't give me this union crap
We had unions in the late 60's even more then
than now!!!

What gives... why is this so hard to do?




I look at a firm like Orange County Choppers or even Boyd Coddington that has the ability to make a 3-D part in software and then transition it directly to a finished piece with a CNC machine tool. Yes, I don't expect every piece to be machined but why couldn't more accurate molds or dies be done this way? Especially with parts you can hold in your hand.


"Only the best and brightest"
Re: Console Question [Re: 6PakBee] #50558
12/28/07 12:38 PM
12/28/07 12:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 174
Upstate NY
B
Big_John Offline
member
Big_John  Offline
member
B

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 174
Upstate NY
Quote:

Quote:

.....Here is what I don't get... We're days away from 2008 not 1968.. With CAD/CAM, and todays's technology..

Why is it a company today can't satisfactorily produce a 40 year old part at LEAST as good as its 1968 counterpart?

What manufacturing processes existed in 1968 that allowed a company to produce a top plate for a console that today's technology just can't do?

Our IPods and Cell phones have more technology that all of NASA had when we went to the moon
in 1969

But we still can't make a simple plastic/metal part? We were able to do this 40 years ago?
But we can't today?

C'mon... don't give me this union crap
We had unions in the late 60's even more then
than now!!!

What gives... why is this so hard to do?




I look at a firm like Orange County Choppers or even Boyd Coddington that has the ability to make a 3-D part in software and then transition it directly to a finished piece with a CNC machine tool. Yes, I don't expect every piece to be machined but why couldn't more accurate molds or dies be done this way? Especially with parts you can hold in your hand.




There's a lot more to it.

First, you have to "reverse engineer" the part. That means taking an existing piece and building the tooling using that part. You'll have to take into consideration things like shrinkage of the plastic, type of plastic, where it will be injected, vented, cooled and what type of injection moulding machine is to be used on.

Now you have to build the tooling and its not cheap to do it right. Lots of hand work by skilled moldmakers went into building the original tooling, something that would be cost prohibitive today in a piece as large as a console. Modern machinery can't duplicate some of that work no matter what anybody says. Ask someone in the business if you don't believe it.

I just touched on a couple of the challenges involved. It comes down to cost. Tooling up to make a hundred thousand parts makes it resonable to make the tooling. Making a couple hundred parts makes you cut some corners to make money. Honestly, from what I've seen, very few plastic parts that size are injection molded anymore. The plastic companys I've been in are using thermal formed plastic for their larger parts.

You mention that Coddington and the clowns from OCC could make tooling. Keep in mind those are one off custom made parts. Doesn't fit? File it down until it does. Screw one up? No problem, make another... They're making parts, not hard tooling.

Building the right injection molding die might cost $100,000 or more to do it right. Given the limited market, it would be hard to justify that kind of cash outlay. If the repop costs $1000, how many people are going to buy one? I'm not going to, I'll look for a used original first.

You can do it cheaper, and that's exactly what is done with a lot of repops. You get something that looks like it and may be a good replacement, but it might not exactly look like it or fit like the old one.

Re: Console Question [Re: Big_John] #50559
12/28/07 03:55 PM
12/28/07 03:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,205
North Dakota
6PakBee Offline
master
6PakBee  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,205
North Dakota
I agree that technology hasn't made this into a complete no brainer, BUT..... The industry has come a long way from using 'shrink rules' to dimension molds and dies. As to reverse engineering, in my business there are a considerable number of vendors that do reverse engineering using anything from manual measurements to FARO equipment. It all ends up in some software like Solidworks and then on to machining.

But this is missing the point here. Someone went through ALL this or something similar to produce what is now available. Would it have been that much more difficult to hold better tolerances to get an accurate part that fit rather than just a part?


"Only the best and brightest"
Re: Console Question [Re: 6PakBee] #50560
12/29/07 07:25 AM
12/29/07 07:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,909
Medina, Ohio
HEMICUDA Offline
top fuel
HEMICUDA  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,909
Medina, Ohio
I have received numerous private emails pertaining to this post and that I should respond to the issues. I have been aware of the thread, however, I didn’t want to jump on without all my ducks in a row.

Both the 67-68 & 69-70 4-speed top plate tools have issues, a lot of the parts coming out of the tool are bad. I’ve been test fitting all the top plates since 3:00 am. this morning and what I found was many of the 4-speed plates, from the batch I tested, are junk no question. All the automatic plates fitment was correct, they were made from totally different tooling then the 4-speed plates. If any customers on MOPARTS can chime in on the auto plates that would be greatly appreciated.

We are in the process of checking the numbers between the digital scan and the solid model of the auto plate compared to the 4-speed plate and see where we missed the boat. A new tool will have to be made for both pieces, I can assure you I will personally beta test the first parts that come out of them.

Lets not get into a “should of” discussion here, we are in the process of making the parts correctly. All customers with poor fitting 4-speed top plates will be sent new ones when they come available which could be in about 60 days (I hope). You must contact your point of purchase to start the ball rolling, NO ONE will be left holding the bag.

Like I have said in the past, a company is not judged on the quality of a product alone, it’s how they react to adversity where they make the grade. I’ve been restoring my own cars for over 25 years and I know the drama of poor quality parts with attitudes from suppliers that leave much to be desired. As owner of this company I refuse to offer junk parts. Why didn’t you guys contact us and give me the opportunity to show you how we conduct business? That really hurt my feelings, I missed out on an “ata boy.” Just kidding. If you do not let us know, how can we correct the problem? Quality companies elevate themselves to controversy.

Try us, give us a chance to earn your business.

Also, I would like to personally thank all the members for a great year and look forward to working with you in the future.

Have a great new Year and stay off the roads New Years eve, that's tourist night behind the wheel.

Respectfully,

Michael C. Ross – Owner
B/E & A Restoration Parts, Inc.
www.beaparts.com
330-725-3990

Re: Console Question [Re: HEMICUDA] #50561
12/29/07 10:17 AM
12/29/07 10:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,205
North Dakota
6PakBee Offline
master
6PakBee  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,205
North Dakota
Mike, just a few thoughts;

1) Thanks for taking the time to PM me on this topic
2) I applaud you for coming out with this approach
3) Talk is cheap, it takes money to buy whiskey

My plan is to revisit this in three months and see what progress has been made. Don't get me wrong, this is a great approach but I've been left at the altar before.


"Only the best and brightest"
Re: Console Question [Re: 6PakBee] #50562
12/29/07 12:37 PM
12/29/07 12:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT Offline
Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT  Offline
Management Trainee

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
Quote:

Mike, just a few thoughts;

1) Thanks for taking the time to PM me on this topic
2) I applaud you for coming out with this approach
3) Talk is cheap, it takes money to buy whiskey

My plan is to revisit this in three months and see what progress has been made. Don't get me wrong, this is a great approach but I've been left at the altar before.





100%

Re: Console Question [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #50563
12/30/07 06:59 PM
12/30/07 06:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,973
San Jose,CA
migsBIG Offline
I Live Here
migsBIG  Offline
I Live Here

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Posts: 19,973
San Jose,CA
Thankd for the posts guys, buy my calculations, by the time i bought those similar parts for my three cars, I would have been out $1,800!

That's why I love moparts, people are never afraid to post personal information for others. I guess I'll be taking my consoles don't to shop for some re-evaluating.

Re: Console Question [Re: migsBIG] #50564
12/30/07 07:24 PM
12/30/07 07:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT Offline
Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT  Offline
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Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
Miguel did you read Mike (Hemicuda's) post about four spaces above? The problem will be getting fixed...

Re: Console Question [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #50565
12/31/07 12:34 AM
12/31/07 12:34 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 361
n.w. missouri
DONS_BEE Offline
enthusiast
DONS_BEE  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 361
n.w. missouri
Thanks Mike for the response. These parts have been out now for quite awhile, if people were having problems with the fit, they should have contacted BEA Parts or the vendor in which the parts were purchased. I know, as a business owner myself, that I would rather get the feedback and correct the problem, instead of hearing about it on a forum where everybody is b-i-t-c-h-i-n-g about one of my products or service and not even knowing there was a problem.


1969 Super Bee (original 383, soon 440SIXPACK)
Re: Console Question [Re: DONS_BEE] #50566
12/31/07 07:46 AM
12/31/07 07:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,205
North Dakota
6PakBee Offline
master
6PakBee  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,205
North Dakota
Quote:

Thanks Mike for the response. These parts have been out now for quite awhile, if people were having problems with the fit, they should have contacted BEA Parts or the vendor in which the parts were purchased. I know, as a business owner myself, that I would rather get the feedback and correct the problem, instead of hearing about it on a forum where everybody is b-i-t-c-h-i-n-g about one of my products or service and not even knowing there was a problem.




In a perfect world where every vendor values his reputation, strives to provide a superior product, and is responsive to customer feedback, yeah maybe it would happen as you would prefer. But after putting up with sheet metal that doesn't fit, WOM's that look like their for another brand, chrome trim that is too short or too narrow, etc., etc. and NOTHING happens after bringing this to the vendor's attention repeatedly.....

Like I said earlier, I've been left at the altar before, let's see how this plays out.


"Only the best and brightest"
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