|
hesitation when cold, 318 + 1406
#493040
10/10/09 12:37 PM
10/10/09 12:37 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,877
Oregon
hooziewhatsit
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,877
Oregon
|
W200, 318, SP2P intake, Voodoo 60400 cam (208/213 @50), stock heads, Eddy 1406, headers, crossover is blocked, 1/2" open aluminum spacer. Idles around 800-900. Vacuum at idle is 16-18. In gear cold drops to ~14-15. Timing is at 15* (tried 10*-20*, no real change when cold). Carb is jetted at #7 (6% lean on cruise & power, I live at 4500'). IMSs are 3.25 turns out. AP is on the top hole (biggest squirt, tried others as well, top seemed to help the most). Fuel pressure when cold was 6.5, and warm was 3.5. I put my adjustable FPR on this morning, and on 5psi, it gives me 2  Anything lower and I get nothing out. (took it off a year ago since it wouldn't run warm with it on). Basically, when cold, it will fire right up and idle at 1500... for a while. After a couple minutes when the choke is barely open, it will sputter down and die. (Choke is already adjusted beyond their notches, if I crank it farther around, it won't kick down until it's warm, lol) If I touch the gas, it dies. If I touch/flutter the gas just right, I can bring the RPMs up bit, then it will usually sputter and die. I can't take the rpms too high either, because it will sputter and die. And that's just in Park. In gear it goes to 5-600 rpms, bounces around, and if it doesn't die by itself, any amount of throttle will. However, once it hits about 170*F, it clears up and runs pretty well  We just hit the cold season here, so 30s in the morning, and 60s during the day. Once winter hits the highs will be around freezing until spring. If I need to go anywhere, I don't want to burn gas for 15 minutes while it warms up  I did have a pretty good hot hesitation until I re-tuned it after putting the spacer in, trying to get rid of heat soak in the carb. Any other thoughts? Or do I just need to let it warm up for 15 minutes whenever I want to drive it? I'd also prefer not to have to take the intake off to open the crossover either. Fuel injection is looking like a very viable option at this point...
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
|
|
|
Re: hesitation when cold, 318 + 1406
[Re: express]
#493043
10/10/09 08:20 PM
10/10/09 08:20 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,877
Oregon
hooziewhatsit
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,877
Oregon
|
Actually, the cross over itself is open, it's the intake gaskets that are blocking it off. I just don't want to take the intake off to cut them open  , then next summer, block them off again  So what about the heads/intakes that just don't have the crossover? Do they all run poorly until warmed up? I guess I'm thinking it should be able to run ok with or without it The choke is electric, so it doesn't rely on heat from the intake to open. The IMSs are already 3 turns out. I could go out some more and see what happens. Thanks
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
|
|
|
Re: hesitation when cold, 318 + 1406
[Re: Neil]
#493045
10/10/09 09:27 PM
10/10/09 09:27 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
|
About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
|
The cross over isn't there for the choke, it's there to warm the gas up so it will vaporize and ignite int he combustion chamber. Liquid gas doesn't burn, the vapors do and cold gas doesn;t vaporize as well as warm gas.
Without a cross over you are delaying the warming of the intake and that is why it takes a while before you can drive off. You intake still heats up, just takes longer and may not get as hot.
Bet your air cleaner doesn't have a heat stove weither, which would help you. As for the heads and intake without a cross over built in, either they are for FI aplications, racing applications, or fair weather applications. Or you have to wait for it to warmup, just like you are now.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
|
|
|
Re: hesitation when cold, 318 + 1406
[Re: Supercuda]
#493046
10/10/09 10:57 PM
10/10/09 10:57 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,806
Newfoundland Canada
Mopar1
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,806
Newfoundland Canada
|
Quote:
The cross over isn't there for the choke, it's there to warm the gas up so it will vaporize and ignite int he combustion chamber. Liquid gas doesn't burn, the vapors do and cold gas doesn;t vaporize as well as warm gas.
Without a cross over you are delaying the warming of the intake and that is why it takes a while before you can drive off. You intake still heats up, just takes longer and may not get as hot.
Bet your air cleaner doesn't have a heat stove weither, which would help you. As for the heads and intake without a cross over built in, either they are for FI aplications, racing applications, or fair weather applications. Or you have to wait for it to warmup, just like you are now.
If the cross-over isn't for the choke, why did Chrysler use the heat retracting spring on the choke pull off? It's part of the engine warm-up process. If the cross-over is plugged everything is compromised. 
|
|
|
Re: hesitation when cold, 318 + 1406
[Re: Mopar1]
#493047
10/11/09 01:33 AM
10/11/09 01:33 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
|
I have a 1406 on a bone stock (70's) 318 w electric choke & it starts/runs good except the mileage is not good (need to go to I believe 95 jets & 73 on a cruise step) but I dont have the radical cam that you do. iirc my crossover is blocked from my choice of gaskets.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: hesitation when cold, 318 + 1406
[Re: Supercuda]
#493049
10/11/09 05:45 PM
10/11/09 05:45 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,806
Newfoundland Canada
Mopar1
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,806
Newfoundland Canada
|
Quote:
Quote:
If the cross-over isn't for the choke, why did Chrysler use the heat retracting spring on the choke pull off? It's part of the engine warm-up process. If the cross-over is plugged everything is compromised.
Let me answer your question with a question. What is th epurpose of exhaust heat in factory applications that use either a manual choke or an all electric choke?
What Chrysler did was to use the fact that exhaust heat cross over warms the intake and used that as a way to regulate automatic choke operation, thus doing away with manual chokes.
The automatic choke is setup to come off as the intake warms and open fully once the engine is warm. Later setups used an auxilliary electric heater with a thermistor to speed the opening up for emissions purposes.
The exhaust heat warms the base of the carb for better atomizing of the fuel/air. If the cross-over is plugged it will take much longer for the engine to idle properly and cause higher fuel consumption. Even the engines with the faster choke pull-off had the cross-over. Let me ask you this...If the cross-over wasn't necessary, why would Chrysler's engineers design and build it into the engine anyway?
|
|
|
Re: hesitation when cold, 318 + 1406
[Re: Mopar1]
#493050
10/11/09 07:22 PM
10/11/09 07:22 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
|
About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
|
Go back and reread my first post.
You obviously misunderstood what I wrote.
The crossover is not there for the choke.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
|
|
|
Re: hesitation when cold, 318 + 1406
[Re: Mopar1]
#493052
10/11/09 08:49 PM
10/11/09 08:49 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,877
Oregon
hooziewhatsit
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,877
Oregon
|
This morning I opened the IMSs up by another turn, and it really seemed to help. This morning wasn't quite as cold, so I couldn't really test it. But 'rolling into it' it doesn't bog down like it did.
Ironically, if I slooooowly open the throttle it hesitates a bit. On that point, if I slooooowly open the throttle, it takes 3/4" of throttle travel before anything comes out of the accelerator pump circuit. I can goose the throttle though and it shoots out instantly.
I'm thinking of removing the weight in the AP circuit, as some people have gotten an improvement after doing that?
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
|
|
|
Re: hesitation when cold, 318 + 1406
[Re: 540challenger]
#493054
10/11/09 10:01 PM
10/11/09 10:01 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,877
Oregon
hooziewhatsit
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,877
Oregon
|
I suppose I am about due to change the fuel filter (which is before the pump).  I have just a stock mechanical pump. Without the adjustable fuel pressure regulator, I was seeing 6ish psi right before the carb. I thought I saw it down around 3psi when it was warm yesterday, but today it stayed around 5-6psi when warm (idling in park). If I put my adjustable FPR in, set at 5psi, I only see 2psi after the regulator. On any lower setting, it appears to completely shut off the flow  So without the regulator, I'm borderline too high. With it, it's pretty much cut off. Anybody recommend a good one?
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
|
|
|
Re: hesitation when cold, 318 + 1406
[Re: hooziewhatsit]
#493055
10/13/09 12:07 PM
10/13/09 12:07 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,877
Oregon
hooziewhatsit
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,877
Oregon
|
bump for this last question:
if I slooooowly open the throttle it hesitates a bit.
While sitting under the hood, I noticed if I slooooowly open the throttle, it takes 3/4" of throttle travel before anything comes out of the accelerator pump circuit. I can goose the throttle though and it shoots out instantly.
I'm thinking of removing the weight in the AP circuit, as some people have gotten an improvement after doing that?
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
|
|
|
Re: hesitation when cold, 318 + 1406
[Re: RapidRobert]
#493057
10/13/09 05:46 PM
10/13/09 05:46 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,877
Oregon
hooziewhatsit
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,877
Oregon
|
Great. Knowing it's a problem is half the battle  I had it open a few days ago when I checked the jets, and didn't see any obvious tears or rips on the AP plunger. I suppose I should be able to take the airhorn off, take the plunger out of the airhorn, and manually move it in its bore to see where the pressure is going? It's suppose to warm up here in a few days, so it will probably wait until then.
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
|
|
|
Re: hesitation when cold, 318 + 1406
[Re: RapidRobert]
#493059
10/15/09 05:55 PM
10/15/09 05:55 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,877
Oregon
hooziewhatsit
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,877
Oregon
|
Got a new AP plunger today. Seemed to sit a little higher in the bore than the old one. Otherwise, haven't noticed a difference  I get a few bubbles from around the plunger when I push it in by hand while it's towards the top of the bore. Farther in it's fine. Thinking about it now, I didn't check to see if the bore is still true or not I can still move the throttle slowly and not get anything out. I checked, and it appears to have the .024" squirters in it. Even when warmed up (180*F) and cruising at 35mph, if I gently add some throttle it coughs and sputters. The 1/2" spacer hasn't seemed to help at all with warm restarts, so I think I'll just take it off.
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
|
|
|
|
|
