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How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? #460985
09/06/09 07:55 PM
09/06/09 07:55 PM
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ademon Offline OP
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got a sb with 1971 727, trans go shift kit, bolt in sprag. 9.5" converter ect.. ect.. when in drive it shifts from 1 to 2nd at about 15 and to 3rd at 20 with normal throttle. when floored it shifts at about 4,800. carb is a holley with the right bracket and downshift linkage, at full throttle the linkage has the trans line psi bracket all the way back. any ideas?

Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: ademon] #460986
09/06/09 08:01 PM
09/06/09 08:01 PM
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Eagle, Idaho
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The tailshaft governor weight and springs are what controls the wot shift points IIRC.

Not sure how you raise the parts throttle shift points. Probably somewhere in the valve body?????

Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: ademon] #460987
09/06/09 08:02 PM
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Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #460988
09/06/09 08:21 PM
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ademon Offline OP
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Quote:

http://www.aandatrans.com/Departments/Chrysler-727-Trans/Governor-Kits.aspx


I've seen those before, what i don't get is didn't the trans in stock form shift in the mid 5k range? its the original 340 trans.

Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: ademon] #460989
09/06/09 08:37 PM
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You'd have to check the factory service manual for a spec but most shift around 45-4800 @ WOT.. Increasing the length of the "kickdown" linkage (throttle valve pressure linkage) can have some minimal effect but the max TV pressure is equivalent to line pressure so governor valve weight is the true limiting factor.. TV Pressure can effect 1-2 & 2-3 part throttle shift points..

Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: ademon] #460990
09/06/09 08:47 PM
09/06/09 08:47 PM
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Southwestern Ontario Canada
racealittle Offline
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I'm not an expert on what rpm an original 340 727 trans shifted at in drive, but 4800-5000 rpm is what I would expect out of a good 727 car trans that has a Transgo TF2 kit in it.

I have bought the governor weights to correct the shift point. You have to talk with Rick at A&A about what he thinks is the right governor weight. Choosing the right weight depends on how your trans is built, your tire size, and your choice of gear. Turning up the line pressure in the trans can also raise the shift point.

If Rick specs out the governor weight and it doesn't suit your need, he will exchange it until you hit the shift point you require.


Too many cars, too many parts, too little coin, too little space to work in, too little time left to make it all happen! Update: down to one ride, still too many parts, a little more jingle in the pocket, gaining space, and it's going to happen this year!
Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: racealittle] #460991
09/06/09 09:37 PM
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Willoughby Hills, Ohio
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How involved is changing out the governor?

Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: gd9704] #460992
09/06/09 09:56 PM
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minivan Offline
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Quote:

How involved is changing out the governor?




AND will changing the governer weight change the shift RPM at part throttle??

Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: minivan] #460993
09/06/09 10:17 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

How involved is changing out the governor?




AND will changing the governor weight change the shift RPM at part throttle??




Jack up car, support the trans, remove driveshaft & trans crossmember & mount, remove speedo gear, remove two Phillips screws holding cover hidden by trans mount.. Remove six bolts holding tailshaft housing.. Spread snap ring tabs behind cover held by two Phillips screws & slide tail housing off trans... Now you'll see the governor... Remove one "E" clip & one snap ring remove old Governor weight replace with new... Reverse process...

Yes a lighter governor weight will effect part throttle because the governor is a centrifugal weight/valve trying to overcome hydraulic pressure...By reducing the weight it needs to spin faster to overcome the same hydraulic force....

Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: ademon] #460994
09/06/09 10:19 PM
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If you have your line pressure where you like it, you'll need to change the govenor to move the wot shift point. If you're trying to get to 6000 rpm or less, you can probably get there by reducing the weight of the inner weight. If you're looking for something higher, you'll likely need to change the spring as well.

What rpm does wot 2-3 shift happen? If 2-3 shifts at a lower rpm than 1-2, then adjust the governor to the desired 2-3 wot shift point, then change the 1-2 shift valve spring to get the 1-2 to the desired rpm.

Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: BSB67] #460995
09/06/09 10:51 PM
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Indiana
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Changing the gov will change the light throttle shift rpm too. Rick will need to ask you a few questions about your setup before he will suggest a gov kit. Also, ask Rick about the Split-Shift spring kit becuase you will most likely need it once you have the new gov in. This kit contains some springs that you will need to swap out in yoour VB. If you installed your TF-2 kit, then you can EASILY swap one of these springs out in the 1-2 shift piston to tune the WOT shift differences between the 1-2 WOT and the 2-3 WOT shifts. In other words, once you add the new gov and your goal is to get both the 1-2 and the 2-3 WOT shift points to the same rpm. If the new gov makes a large difference in shift points (lets say 5400/5800rpms), then the kit will have a spring (with instructions) that may allow the shift points to become closer (maybe 5600/5800rpms).
I have used two of the A-A gov's and each time I wanted to get both WOT shifts within a 100rpm difference, I had to use the A-A Split-Shift spring kit to get me close (if I remember right, both times I was within 200rpms). Then to get my shift points even closer (I was beening anal about it), I bought some springs from a spring manufacturer once I measured a couple of the 1-2 shift springs. Then after some testing I was able to get both my shifts points to the same rpm. You can also use the line pressure to gain/lose shift rpms too.


I am a huge fan of tuning the shift points in an auto car. The valve body can be fine tuned just like the carb and the ignition of a car.


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (234/238@.050, .590"/.603") Solid FT, Yella Terra 1.65 rockers, 9.7:1, 63cc Sidewinders (Bowl Ported),RPM intake, QF SS-750 Annular DP, MSD Street Fire Ign., & TTI's. 727/Dynamic 9.5" 3800, TF-2, & 3:91's
Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: gd9704] #460996
09/07/09 04:36 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
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Quote:

How involved is changing out the governor?




A lot more involved than just shifting manually at the desired RPM.


Doing my best to irritate the herd.
Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: John_Kunkel] #460997
09/07/09 04:44 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

How involved is changing out the governor?




A lot more involved than just shifting manually at the desired RPM.




True...

Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: John_Kunkel] #460998
09/08/09 10:34 AM
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I too vote to shift manually at wot.

Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: demonH1B] #460999
09/08/09 10:46 AM
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Quote:

I too vote to shift manually at wot.




I don't vote for manually shifting at WOT & likely neight does Mr Kunkle... The statement is about how difficult it is to install a governor vs manually shifting... Manually selecting 1st geat applies the low/reverse band.. Thats a good thing when launching the car, especially if you have some serious HP but at the point the 1-2 shift occurs the band must release or there will be a shift overlap (Two gears applied at the same time) Torqueflights are prone to shift overlap without applying manual low why add to the difficulty..

Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #461000
09/08/09 03:57 PM
09/08/09 03:57 PM
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John_Kunkel Offline
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Quote:



I don't vote for manually shifting at WOT & likely neight does Mr Kunkle...




Wrong, I DO advocate manual shifting at WOT as opposed to letting the governor have control.


Quote:

Torqueflights are prone to shift overlap without applying manual low why add to the difficulty.




To take some of the load off the sprag, the overlap can be greatly reduced with proper mods.


Doing my best to irritate the herd.
Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: John_Kunkel] #461001
09/08/09 06:03 PM
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not to hijack but on a related note, my car shifts early on the 1-2 but the 2-3 shift is just about perfect IMO. I have 3.91 gears and unless I'm really into the pedal the 1-2 shift happens at about 5mph. The 2-3 shift happens at about say 30mph normal driving and about 75mph at WOT. Can the 1-2 shift be adjusted without effecting 2-3? The throttle pressure linkage seems to be adjusted correctly (bouchillion cable setup)

Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: ademon] #461002
09/08/09 06:38 PM
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Check your kick down linkage. There is a small hole in throttle bracket and pivot. Insert a drill bit through those holes. Un snap the lower rod. adjust the lower rod so in it's natural state it will snap back on. Then remove the drill bit. Hold throttle wide open. Adjust upper rod so that at WOT there is only a bit of free play on trans lever. You don't want the lever pressed back hard. It needs a little free play. Many people forget to adjust the lower rod correctly to get the proper ratio.

Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: 440newport] #461003
09/08/09 08:07 PM
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John_Kunkel Offline
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Quote:

Can the 1-2 shift be adjusted without effecting 2-3?




Yes, a stiffer return spring in the 1-2 shift valve bore can will raise the 1-2 shift speed but it's not really worth the effort. The 3.91 gears make the trans think you're going faster than the actual road speed.


Doing my best to irritate the herd.
Re: How to get trans to shift at a higher rpm? [Re: John_Kunkel] #461004
09/08/09 08:41 PM
09/08/09 08:41 PM
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Willoughby Hills, Ohio
gd9704 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

How involved is changing out the governor?




A lot more involved than just shifting manually at the desired RPM.





Love that.

I guess I'll wait until I HAVE to take the trans out before messing with the governor.

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