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Odd Overheating Problem #460380
09/05/09 09:41 PM
09/05/09 09:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 115
Tampa Bay
BadFishy Offline OP
member
BadFishy  Offline OP
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Tampa Bay
I wanted my 440 engine to run a a little warmer. It had a 160 degree high flow thermostat and so changed it to a 195 Stant Superstat. 15 minutes of warming up and then started cruising at about 35 mph. As soon as I stomped on it the temperature gauge began to spike and I saw steam starting to come out from under the hood. So I quickly pulled over. The coolant was not steaming from the radiator - it was blasting out the stat housing gasket area. The radiator was barely warm - I could rest my hand on it. So I thought it was a stuck thermostat. (Yes, I did install the stat in the correct direction.) I then bought a new Milodon 180 degree high flow stat. Boiled it and it opened right at 180, give or take a degree. Installed that. Drove around all day around town and on country roads, and a short highway cruise of about 70 mph. Thought I had it fixed. Then, right at the end of my cruise, I decided to stomp on it from about 15 mph and took it up to 75 mph. Here we go again. The temp spiked, I saw the steam, pulled over, coolant blasting through the stat housing gasket again. The radiator was hot this time, but not as if it was overheated - no steam coming out from it.

I know you might be thinking, just put the 160 back in. The problem is the engine always ran too rough, especially on 50 - 60 degree days, as if it never got warm. It ran tremendously better with that 180 stat, but now I have this overheating problem.

Never had an overheating problem and the engine has barely 2500 miles on it. Griffin aluminum radiator, aluminum hv water pump, shrouded, 7 blade fan, no AC, etc. I didn't make any other changes, just the stat. Any ideas?


1971 Cuda, 440 custom-build
Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: BadFishy] #460381
09/05/09 09:49 PM
09/05/09 09:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,884
Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
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Grand Prairie,Texas
You might have an air pocket in the system. Did you try drilling a small hole in the thermostat body to allow air to escape?

Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: BadFishy] #460382
09/05/09 09:55 PM
09/05/09 09:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
master
Crizila  Offline
master

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Az
Sounds like a blown head gasket. Might want to crack the oil drain plug and see if any coolant comes out. Getting any white smoke out the tail pipe? I'd also put a pressure guage on the rad and run the car. get it up to operating temp until the pressure stabilizes. Then rev it up a few quick times and see if the pressure spikes.


Fastest 300
Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: BadFishy] #460383
09/05/09 10:07 PM
09/05/09 10:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
Too Many Posts
Challenger 1  Offline
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Cincinnati, Ohio
Quote:

I wanted my 440 engine to run a a little warmer. It had a 160 degree high flow thermostat and so changed it to a 195 Stant Superstat. 15 minutes of warming up and then started cruising at about 35 mph. As soon as I stomped on it the temperature gauge began to spike and I saw steam starting to come out from under the hood. So I quickly pulled over. The coolant was not steaming from the radiator - it was blasting out the stat housing gasket area. The radiator was barely warm - I could rest my hand on it. So I thought it was a stuck thermostat. (Yes, I did install the stat in the correct direction.) I then bought a new Milodon 180 degree high flow stat. Boiled it and it opened right at 180, give or take a degree. Installed that. Drove around all day around town and on country roads, and a short highway cruise of about 70 mph. Thought I had it fixed. Then, right at the end of my cruise, I decided to stomp on it from about 15 mph and took it up to 75 mph. Here we go again. The temp spiked, I saw the steam, pulled over, coolant blasting through the stat housing gasket again. The radiator was hot this time, but not as if it was overheated - no steam coming out from it.

I know you might be thinking, just put the 160 back in. The problem is the engine always ran too rough, especially on 50 - 60 degree days, as if it never got warm. It ran tremendously better with that 180 stat, but now I have this overheating problem.

Never had an overheating problem and the engine has barely 2500 miles on it. Griffin aluminum radiator, aluminum hv water pump, shrouded, 7 blade fan, no AC, etc. I didn't make any other changes, just the stat. Any ideas?




Sounds to me that you have a warped thermostat housing for one...is the coolant low when the temp spikes?

Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: Challenger 1] #460384
09/05/09 11:10 PM
09/05/09 11:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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Circle Track

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
I'd drawfile the stat housing/base with your widest/smoothest file & retry it & check the new stat gasket that you will be using for any minor imperfections which might cause a problem. EDIT and some sealant on the bolt threads and that the bolts aren't bottoming out just before they get tight.

Last edited by RapidRobert; 09/06/09 11:01 PM.

live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: RapidRobert] #460385
09/05/09 11:35 PM
09/05/09 11:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 115
Tampa Bay
BadFishy Offline OP
member
BadFishy  Offline OP
member

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 115
Tampa Bay
I doubt if there is an air pocket - both thermostats have the hole in them. No white smoke coming out of tail pipe, or any unusual smell for that matter. I haven't checked the oil plug yet

I will file the housing.

Would a defective radiator cap cause this?


1971 Cuda, 440 custom-build
Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: BadFishy] #460386
09/06/09 07:52 AM
09/06/09 07:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,558
Montana
F
FuryUs Offline
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Montana
Quote:

Would a defective radiator cap cause this?


I doubt it. Your romp from 15-75 mph took... 5-10 seconds? There's no way that should cause a noticible temp increase that quickly. I vote head gasket as well.

Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: FuryUs] #460387
09/06/09 08:10 AM
09/06/09 08:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
M
MoparforLife Offline
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Upper Midwest
Why all the paranoid people on head gaskets??? Geez every time someone has a heating or coolant problem a head gasket seems to come up as the suspect. Head gasket failure is not all that common. sure it happens but no near as often as it seems that it is brought up here. If this would jhave been a head gasket with compression blowing the coolant out there would also have been steam or coolant or residue from the exhaust as some point. If it can blow pressure into the cooling system at some point it will also allow coolant the other way.
Rereading the post I am also in fafor of the poor seal on the stat housing. I have seen many times where the edge of tha stat got caught between the stat housing and the w/pump housing. Just enough to cause a leak under pressure.

Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: MoparforLife] #460388
09/06/09 08:31 AM
09/06/09 08:31 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 115
Tampa Bay
BadFishy Offline OP
member
BadFishy  Offline OP
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Posts: 115
Tampa Bay
Thanks guys so far. I need to go out of town for a few days but when I get back, I'll check the thermostat housing and let everyone know. I am hoping it is just this simple. Again, no problems with the 160 degree stat - I may just have had a better gasket seal at that time, and now I don't. Also, I always make my own cork gaskets for that one, and don't use RTV sealant. I will check the housing and then also use RTV sealant. We will see. Bye for now.


1971 Cuda, 440 custom-build
Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: BadFishy] #460389
09/06/09 07:14 PM
09/06/09 07:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,278
San Jose, California
D
DennisH Offline
Vacation
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San Jose, California
180 Superstat. Mancini Billet housing.

Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: DennisH ] #460390
09/06/09 08:22 PM
09/06/09 08:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,069
Renton, WA
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GreenBlurr Offline
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Posts: 2,069
Renton, WA
Yes, you may have a pressure leak, but on a big block dodge, if it were at the thermostat housing you would most likely actually see coolant escaping the sealing surfaces.
Now for the people who were telling the poster to drill another hole in the thermostat housing, or insisted he had a bad headgasket, you're all idiots.

The air pocket thing is the correct answer, but not to be addressed in any way you guys were thinking.
Any time you drain the cooling system of any coolant (especially if you drain enough to clear the thermostat on a B/RB motor), the air must be burped out of the system after refill while running.
There was a thread on this on here a year or so back, where there must have been 100 replies from people with nonproductive, or mildly destructive theroies on how to get air out of a cooling system. And when myself and one other person chimed in with the RIGHT, EASY, and CHEAP, and PROFESSIONAL way we were shot down and disregarded as fools.

I am a mechanic for a living and have been for many years, and this is what ALL of us use, and its the ONLY way to fly https://www.matcotools.com/Catalog/toolcatalog.jsp?cattype=T&cat=2125&page=15&#62923
Matco tools Part #SFF2A Cooling system burper kit. $30.
You seal the funnel on to the top of the radiator and fill the system through it. Then, when it takes all it is going to take, fill the funnel halfway full and leave its plug out. Fire up the engine, and the system will likely start drawing coolant from the funnel. keep it half full the whole time as you can, and as the engine comes up to temperature the pressure in the system will drive the funnel to a more than half full. (this is why you never have it more than half full when cold, so as to prevent spills) when the thermostat finally opens, you will have tons of air coming out of the system up into the coolant filled funnel, and getting replaced by coolant from said funnel. Turn the heater on full temp once the thermostat opens too, to get ALL of the air out of the cooling system. This will remove all of the air from the system that there will be, and run the engine and dont be afraid to rev on it a bit to get the water pump pumpin away after the thermostat has opened to knock all remaining air out.
Right before you shut the engine down FIRMLY place the plug in the funnel, to keep in the built up cooling system pressure (this is very important) and then walk away and do not touch that plug until the upper radiator hose has collapsed on itself some (indicating the pressure has reduce, and the now sealed system is sucking back on itself). Then remove the plug, and it will draw in even more coolant, and give each radiator hose a squeeze or two to knock any air sitting in the upper hose or upper core of radiator out. Replug the funnel, then remove it from teh radiator, and reinstall the cap.

It's not rocket science, and I don't care what your daddy or neigbor or whoever told you, but just filling the radiator and letting it run, and then topping it off sometime later leaves a good 75% of the displaced air in the cooling system in there. And with the air in there, you might as well have a pressure leak, because the thermostat does not open and flow for air. It does for coolant.
Plus, chrylser B/RB engines have internal self bypassing cooling systems, so the coolant that is actually flowing without the thermostat being open is also not going right by the thermostat (like an amc V8 or dodge LA motor does).

This concludes your lesson for today kids.

Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: GreenBlurr] #460391
09/06/09 09:20 PM
09/06/09 09:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 851
Southeast Pa.
SALEM1912 Offline
super stock
SALEM1912  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 851
Southeast Pa.
Have used this funnel from Miller (8195) for years same idea and works great.

Last edited by SALEM1912; 09/06/09 09:22 PM.
Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: GreenBlurr] #460392
09/06/09 09:22 PM
09/06/09 09:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
master
Crizila  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Quote:

Yes, you may have a pressure leak, but on a big block dodge, if it were at the thermostat housing you would most likely actually see coolant escaping the sealing surfaces.
Now for the people who were telling the poster to drill another hole in the thermostat housing, or insisted he had a bad headgasket, you're all idiots.

The air pocket thing is the correct answer, but not to be addressed in any way you guys were thinking.
Any time you drain the cooling system of any coolant (especially if you drain enough to clear the thermostat on a B/RB motor), the air must be burped out of the system after refill while running.
There was a thread on this on here a year or so back, where there must have been 100 replies from people with nonproductive, or mildly destructive theroies on how to get air out of a cooling system. And when myself and one other person chimed in with the RIGHT, EASY, and CHEAP, and PROFESSIONAL way we were shot down and disregarded as fools.

I am a mechanic for a living and have been for many years, and this is what ALL of us use, and its the ONLY way to fly https://www.matcotools.com/Catalog/toolcatalog.jsp?cattype=T&cat=2125&page=15&#62923
Matco tools Part #SFF2A Cooling system burper kit. $30.
You seal the funnel on to the top of the radiator and fill the system through it. Then, when it takes all it is going to take, fill the funnel halfway full and leave its plug out. Fire up the engine, and the system will likely start drawing coolant from the funnel. keep it half full the whole time as you can, and as the engine comes up to temperature the pressure in the system will drive the funnel to a more than half full. (this is why you never have it more than half full when cold, so as to prevent spills) when the thermostat finally opens, you will have tons of air coming out of the system up into the coolant filled funnel, and getting replaced by coolant from said funnel. Turn the heater on full temp once the thermostat opens too, to get ALL of the air out of the cooling system. This will remove all of the air from the system that there will be, and run the engine and dont be afraid to rev on it a bit to get the water pump pumpin away after the thermostat has opened to knock all remaining air out.
Right before you shut the engine down FIRMLY place the plug in the funnel, to keep in the built up cooling system pressure (this is very important) and then walk away and do not touch that plug until the upper radiator hose has collapsed on itself some (indicating the pressure has reduce, and the now sealed system is sucking back on itself). Then remove the plug, and it will draw in even more coolant, and give each radiator hose a squeeze or two to knock any air sitting in the upper hose or upper core of radiator out. Replug the funnel, then remove it from teh radiator, and reinstall the cap.

It's not rocket science, and I don't care what your daddy or neigbor or whoever told you, but just filling the radiator and letting it run, and then topping it off sometime later leaves a good 75% of the displaced air in the cooling system in there. And with the air in there, you might as well have a pressure leak, because the thermostat does not open and flow for air. It does for coolant.
Plus, chrylser B/RB engines have internal self bypassing cooling systems, so the coolant that is actually flowing without the thermostat being open is also not going right by the thermostat (like an amc V8 or dodge LA motor does).

This concludes your lesson for today kids.


Hey, cool tool - and I don't think your a fool. You could very well be right. Per the original thread, If you can drive around all day and not have a problem, then get on it once and watch the temp spike and the coolant system pressure blow the stat gasket out - well - it just didn't sound like an air pocket to me. Still might buy the tool though. I'm for sure an "idiot" for tools.


Fastest 300
Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: GreenBlurr] #460393
09/06/09 09:27 PM
09/06/09 09:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 739
Anderson, IN
1
1969RR Offline
super stock
1969RR  Offline
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Posts: 739
Anderson, IN
Let's not stoop to name calling tho. For sure an air pocket. I had the same issue with my 440. I use the same funnel from Matco. It works great. I use it every time I open a cooling system. Jeff

Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: 1969RR] #460394
09/06/09 09:33 PM
09/06/09 09:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,884
Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
I Win
stumpy  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,884
Grand Prairie,Texas
GreenBlurr, you may have a good point but people are not going to bother listening to it if you need to degrade others just to try and get your opinion across. Talking down to someone will just turn them off to you.

Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: FuryUs] #460395
09/06/09 09:43 PM
09/06/09 09:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,558
Montana
F
FuryUs Offline
master
FuryUs  Offline
master
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,558
Montana
I may be an idiot, a jackazz, and/or a moron, but I don't see a 5-10 second romp causing enough of a temp increase to cause it to blow steam past a gasket when it's fine any other time.

Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: FuryUs] #460396
09/06/09 09:49 PM
09/06/09 09:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,278
San Jose, California
D
DennisH Offline
Vacation
DennisH  Offline
Vacation
D

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,278
San Jose, California
I too am an idiot. When I revved the crap out of the 440, the chrome-Chinese junk housing began to leak. Almost instantly. Mancini Billet (expensive) housing was the cure for me.

Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: stumpy] #460397
09/07/09 12:15 AM
09/07/09 12:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,069
Renton, WA
G
GreenBlurr Offline
super gas
GreenBlurr  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,069
Renton, WA
Quote:

GreenBlurr, you may have a good point but people are not going to bother listening to it if you need to degrade others just to try and get your opinion across. Talking down to someone will just turn them off to you.




Got everyone's attention though didnt i. and now they read, and now they learned.

Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: GreenBlurr] #460398
09/07/09 07:17 AM
09/07/09 07:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 216
Tampa Florida
M
MoparTod Offline
enthusiast
MoparTod  Offline
enthusiast
M

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 216
Tampa Florida
GreenBlurr,

I to am offended at your response. Frankly we can do without your comments. To assume we are all idots and kids is foolish. If you want to comment on a thread keep it civil or keep quiet.I would have thought maybe you had a bad day or something but since you commented twice I believe you are just that way.

Re: Odd Overheating Problem [Re: MoparTod] #460399
09/07/09 07:39 AM
09/07/09 07:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
M
MoparforLife Offline
Too Many Posts
MoparforLife  Offline
Too Many Posts
M

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
Quote:

GreenBlurr,

I to am offended at your response. Frankly we can do without your comments. To assume we are all idots and kids is foolish. If you want to comment on a thread keep it civil or keep quiet.I would have thought maybe you had a bad day or something but since you commented twice I believe you are just that way.


To some people thier way is the only way. The rest of us don't know anything.
Yeah those 'tools' do work but there are millions of cooling systems filled without using this that that have no problems. Evidently this is just idiot's luck.

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