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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: S/ST 3040]
#456630
09/02/09 02:25 PM
09/02/09 02:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,528
Mansfield, Tx
Jacob Pitt
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,528
Mansfield, Tx
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I have to ask, is there any fresh air coming into the carb? Are those scoops functional? Fresh air into the engine might be something to look into. I do believe there is much left in your combo without any major changes. The motor I built in Mom's Duster runs 11.80's and it is a 362" with J heads, a .517 lift Voodoo flat tappet hydraulic cam. Airgap intake, 850 Quickfuel carb, TTi 1 5/8" headers straight into Dynatech muffs, with flat top pistons, 3000rpm stall ATI converter, low gear set 904, 4.30 gears, and 26*8 M/T slicks. Car is around 3200lbs with Mom in it. So you may have a small cam and intake for your cubes, but I feel it should still pull harder than that through the traps. You may be amazed how much you pick up just with jet changes.
2013 NHRA D4 Stock Champ
#4 in the World IHRA Stock
2x IHRA Div.4 Stock Champ
14x Track Champ
All using a Ultimate Converter Concepts converter. Call Lenny today 704-892-6837
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: 65cuda]
#456631
09/02/09 02:30 PM
09/02/09 02:30 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Thanks you guys so much good info. yes i did the basics. i have been changing the timming. it is at about 20 all in it's 36-37. i was running a 750 vac sec. it ran a 12.30 with that carb. i just last week pulled all the stock fuel lines and ran 3/8 all the way. i put the 950 back on and i pulled the sec. PV and put 86s in the back and upped the prim. to 80s thats when it ran a best of 12.05. i am going to drop the muffs tomorrow night and take the jet kit with me. also let my wife drive she is at least a 100# less than me. i have been switching carbs back and forth 950 and 750. then put the 750 and air cleaner on for shows. also i did all the work myself i built the motor and did the paint and body. racing is new for me. i always just had show cars. but my wife and i are liking this race thing. i can see i will need two race cars at this pace. we have to argue to see who gets to drive. the muffs are flowmasters with an h pipe turn downs in front of the 8 3/4. headers are headman streets 1 5/8 tubes.
Well your going the right direction... keep jetting
it up till it slows down(MPH).. go 2 jets at a time
then when it slows go down 1 size
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: Dave Watt]
#456633
09/02/09 03:18 PM
09/02/09 03:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 515
Dayton, Ohio
65cuda
OP
mopar addict
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OP
mopar addict
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 515
Dayton, Ohio
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i know it confusing. i put the 750 and the air cleaner on for shows then the 950 with no air cleaner on for the track. yes the scoops have big holes under them. i think last time i looked at the RPMs it was going through at 6300. i will know more after tomorrow night. hope to drop the muffs and take the jets with me. hate to drop them then i will have to trailer it there. i have been driving it there. 
65 Cuda 360,3.23 SG-13.97 @99.4, 88 D100, 2000 Kota Qcab, 71 Duster 416 11.84 @110., 73 Imp ,(2)72 & (1)71 Dart Swingers
GarysMocars Legendary Dealer
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: The Shocker]
#456636
09/02/09 08:04 PM
09/02/09 08:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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Quote:
Not trying to bragg ,just thought it may help.We both have A body's and stroker smallblocks .Mine is in a 64 Dart and its a 408 .It has (unported )Econo W2 heads,a wimp Edelbrock rpm cam ,750 Demon ,victor intake ,an adapted glide trans with 3,000 stall ,and 4.10 gears ,with 8.5 slicks .I have no traction devices on it and i leave at about 2600 on the foot brake.When i got the car it had a best in hot weather of 11.93 at 113.I have gutted 150 lbs off ,made a sealed scoop ,made and welded in sub connectors ,and done sum minor tuning.It has a best now of 11.71 ,but the same mph of 113.My problem is the cam is too small for the gear and im leveling out 100 ft from the end of the 1/4.It has went from a 7.58 best in the 1/8 to a 7.39 in the 1/8 ,with my mods to it.I have gained ET in the first half of the 1/4 ,but gained nothing on the big end.I think its your cam ,and gears that are not letting your motor go where it wants.I plan to tear mine down this winter and upgrade to a bigger solid cam.BTW ,my best 60' is identical to yours ,1.63 ...
Pretty good but check out my Buddy's Dart, 3000 lbs, leaf springs, cal tracks, 10" slicks 4" stroker small block, with home ported W2's solid flat cam and yes Bee Hive valve springs. 4.30 gears bla,bla,bla...
6.20's in the heat.
He runs all the east cost Mopar events.
Clancy Keaton..
 
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#456638
09/02/09 11:06 PM
09/02/09 11:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,233
petaluma,ca. u.s.a.
west
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,233
petaluma,ca. u.s.a.
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Quote:
Quote:
pay for some dyno-tune time.
The track is the best dyno there is, plus you don't have to retune it when you get to the track due to so many things that affect the car at the track   
well out here it can take an hour or more in between runs 
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: west]
#456639
09/02/09 11:43 PM
09/02/09 11:43 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 515
Dayton, Ohio
65cuda
OP
mopar addict
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OP
mopar addict
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 515
Dayton, Ohio
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yes the pick up is 3/8 also. i also made my own frame ties and welded them in. more results after test and tune tomorrow night. thanks for all the help.
65 Cuda 360,3.23 SG-13.97 @99.4, 88 D100, 2000 Kota Qcab, 71 Duster 416 11.84 @110., 73 Imp ,(2)72 & (1)71 Dart Swingers
GarysMocars Legendary Dealer
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: 65cuda]
#456640
09/03/09 07:29 AM
09/03/09 07:29 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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First, the convertor is slipping a bit more than I'd like to see with a 4" arm. I'm figuring over 10%. You should be trapping about 5900 with a little slip. Also, the timing... 4" arm with closed chamber heads and pistons up near the deck should not need more timing then 32°, and in many cases it's more like 28-30°. So play with the initial and the curve to get the initial high but limit the total. Set teh timing, then set the carb to get the 60' times where you want them. That's where I'd be looking anyway. There should be more in what you have... then you can start changing parts  .
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: DJVCuda]
#456642
09/03/09 09:52 AM
09/03/09 09:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,732
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,732
Portage,michigan
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Some of these guys saying a stroker likes 28, and in general doesnt like some timing havent raced a stroker based smallblock, i guess.
I have had 3 strokers, 416 with eddies, 416 with w5's and 422 with w5's and they have all liked different timing.
First motor liked exactly 40 degrees, on back to back passes it slowed down a tenth turning it back to 36.
The 416 with w5 heads(same shortblock as above, BTW) liked 32, more would slow it down.
Current w5 422 motor likes 33/35...I had it at 28 this year and the car runs about 12 hundreds slower there than at 33-35....so all are different.
I have a good friend who for years ran a very scienced out b1ba tube chassis car(went close to 9 flat, 3.79 stroker motor)his motor liked 40/42 degrees of timing, he had it evertwhere else, but that was the sweet spot.
I havent seen or heard of anything that likes 28 degrees, ever.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.56 at 104.17
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: 65cuda]
#456643
09/03/09 09:57 AM
09/03/09 09:57 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
Thanks Brian i see what u mean. guess i wil have to decide if it's going to be a street car or not.I think i will just try to get my best out of this combo then build one of my Darts for the strip.
For starters get a better manifold. That alone will get you 3 MPH.
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: DJVCuda]
#456645
09/03/09 11:42 AM
09/03/09 11:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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W5,
I think its a case of fuels and package design. If you're running race fuel (I'm assuming by "racing" you do typically run higher ratios and racing fuels) it burns slower and needs the extra timing. Pump fuel (up to 100 or so octane) doesn't. I've never had to run anything but pump fuel in the ones I build because they are first and foremost street cars. Or perhaps it's the combinations you run. But I've found the opposite is true even with big bore combos.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: Dartcuda]
#456647
09/03/09 03:36 PM
09/03/09 03:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,732
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,732
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
I don't understand why people think that just because its a stroker smallblock it should run low 11's , edelbrock heads or not . I go to the track a lot and I can say for sure that there are ton of 440 A-bodies out there only running in the 12's . A good friend of mine has a 70 - 340 dart with an almost identical build but only 340 cubes and runs best 12.6 at 108 . Tuned on it for 2 years and went from 12.8 to 12.6 , no more left in it . He's got 6 tenths on that dart which is about right for the increase in cubic inches.
A lot of big blocks in A bodies are pooches, that is a long established fact on this board  
Gary, rest your soul 
A guy who posts on here(Matt) has a 3200ish pound red duster that goes 11.30-40's with J heads and a flat tappet,340 cubes and its anything but wild. My little brothers 9.5 compression eddie head 360 runs 11.40's.
My OLD combo was a 416 with MILDLY ported eddies, flat tappet, bench seat, column shift 70 duster, all steel, flat hood, 280 pound driver(3400 race weight), 727 bone stock suspension, 8 inch wheels, etc that went 10.70's often and i have driven it 70 miles and done that.
Plenty of people on here remember my car when it was configured like that.
Frankly, a 416 with anything going correct at all all about it should run mid 11's with an anchor hooked to it with eddie heads, and better than that without an anchor...sorry, thats just a fact 
12's out of an eddie headed stroker you need to have a lot of stuff not matched, no matter the compression. I was right at 11.8 compression running those 10.70's at 3400 pounds. so do the math on lowering the compression 2 points and having a similarly effective build, low 11's at least.....
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.56 at 104.17
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Re: Whats holding me in the 109 MPH range
[Re: 65cuda]
#456648
09/03/09 04:32 PM
09/03/09 04:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 279
Mid Missouri
ETASPEN
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 279
Mid Missouri
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Quote:
i have went from low 13s to 12.05 never faster than 109.something. it's a 416 E heads out of the box , 509/510 comp cam , 4.11 gear , 3k stall 904,MT drag radials, 950 hp carb. weeland stealh dual plane. 1.63 best 60' through mufflers. think it's the dual plane?
Okay, so back to the original question regardless of how much faster everyone thinks you should be...I think the MPH is low for that E.T., but there are unlimited variables to argue about. I also don't have the answer for you, and mine is not a stroker, but when running 12.05, w/1.62-60ft goes through the traps at 112.7 and 6000 rpm...4.10 gear, 28" tall tire. My vote is for single plane intake and lose the mufflers.
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