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Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: torkrules] #448381
09/05/09 04:07 PM
09/05/09 04:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 480
Kentucky, USA
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derekeh Offline OP
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As far as I know its the factory cam so Im sure it has a lot of wear. I have a new cam/lifters/springs but I just wanted to break in this engine first to make sure it was going to do fine before I stuck the new cam in. I was told the heads were fine along with the valves. How can I check to make sure the valves are seating fine without removing the head? Also what is reluctor phasing?

Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: derekeh] #448382
09/05/09 04:08 PM
09/05/09 04:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
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Kentucky, USA
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derekeh Offline OP
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Oh and my dad has a new carb that im going to swap on soon to see if that helps any. Will tell how that goes soon.

Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: Rick_Ehrenberg] #448383
09/05/09 07:14 PM
09/05/09 07:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,180
Willoughby Hills, Ohio
gd9704 Offline
super gas
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Willoughby Hills, Ohio
Quote:

Quote:


Its been converted to pretty much a stock electronic ignition setup.




Quote:

I'd check rotor phasing ....




I'd sure consider reversing the two pickup coil wires, then resetting the timing. Been an occasional Mopar problem for 37 years.

Rick





I had this happen to me when I installed a curved FBO distributor. Once I tried reversing the pickup wires, it ran awesome. (You can use a set of alligator clipped leads to try this without hacking wires)

Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: gd9704] #448384
09/07/09 05:22 AM
09/07/09 05:22 AM
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Posts: 480
Kentucky, USA
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derekeh Offline OP
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The wires are all labeled and have been installed just like they have been for the past few years is why i dont think the wires are wrong. Exactly which 2 wires are you talking about? The + and - on the coil?

Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: derekeh] #448385
09/07/09 06:48 AM
09/07/09 06:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,872
connecticut
pnypwr Offline
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connecticut
when they trued the heads, how much did they take off? Did they mill the intake to match? could be that at low rpms its not enough to cause a vac leak, but at hi rpms its pulling crankcase vapors! Had a 440-6 with that problem.

also if you have a raytek gun check the temp on header tubes while a friend keeps it revving to the miss occurs...the cold tube is the one thats not firing...and go from there!

Did you have the cam drive gear out? is it put back in correctly?

Do you have a good timing light? If it wont run till 10 deg atdc somethings wrong with the timing, whether the dots werent quite straight and your a tooth or 2 off...set dampner to tdc on the compression stroke...use a compression whistle to be sure. make sure #1 intake and exh pushrods and rockers have zero preload on them ( meaning the rockers feel loose and not compressing the valve spring at all) if they are you have a cam timing issue! then mark your dist to the ctr of the #1 plug tower, remove cap and make sure the rotors pointing at it (straight at it)if its close set it to it. reassemble and start engine itll run at tdc set timing to spec.

The problem i see here is you had a skip before (suspected dead hole) but not positive, now youve changed a hundred things, and the same problem is still occuring weve ruled out compression, but you have to step back and start at the basics if timing is all how it should be, id be looking at the carb next!


"Are you gonna bark all day lil doggy? Or are you gonna bite?"


05 ram 2500 ctd
74 gremlin x 360
65 mustang 347
70 coronet R/T 440
03 Mach 1
Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: pnypwr] #448386
09/07/09 08:21 AM
09/07/09 08:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 480
Kentucky, USA
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derekeh Offline OP
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Yeah something has to be up with the timing. It wont run at all if you put the timing where it is supposed to be. I have never heard of a compression whistle and havent been able to find one around here. Can I go by a compression gauge?

Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: derekeh] #448387
09/08/09 04:24 PM
09/08/09 04:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,715
closer to Canadian beer!
torkrules Offline
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Quote:

As far as I know its the factory cam so Im sure it has a lot of wear. I have a new cam/lifters/springs but I just wanted to break in this engine first to make sure it was going to do fine before I stuck the new cam in. I was told the heads were fine along with the valves. How can I check to make sure the valves are seating fine without removing the head? Also what is reluctor phasing?




A simple test for valve seal would be to run a compression test. A better tool is a leak down tester. With a leak down tester, you can hear the air escaping if a valve is bad.

Reluctor phasing is basically having the reluctor tooth line up with the pick up at the same time the rotor lines up with a terminal on the cap. This is mostly done when the mechanical weights are locked out and the distributor is set to full advance.

It also has an effect with non locked out distributors. If the reluctor phasing is off, the rotor alignment might be off. there are two slots machined into the reluctor, one for big blocks and the other for small blocks. These are identified by the arrows indicating rotation direction. There were reluctors available at one time with multiple slots so you could play around with the phasing.

To check it, get an old cap and put about a 1" hole in the top of the cap near number 1 terminal. Connect a timing light and start the car. Rev the engine as you flash the light in the hole and observe where the rotor lines up. You would then machine a new slot in the rotor so that it stays near the terminal throughout the advance curve.

Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: torkrules] #448388
09/09/09 08:45 PM
09/09/09 08:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 480
Kentucky, USA
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derekeh Offline OP
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Okay well I decided to look into the engine. I pulled the timing cover off and it appears the dots are lined up at tdc... but how can I check to make sure Im right at top dead center? I cant help but think im off a tooth or something for it to be running like it is and the timing to be so screwed up.

Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: derekeh] #448389
09/09/09 09:26 PM
09/09/09 09:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,872
connecticut
pnypwr Offline
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connecticut
make sure the piston on number one is at tdc...the set the cam so the lifters for number one intake and exhaust are on the heel of the cam lobe and both valve are fully closed, ive seen some t chains have to be set with the cam dot on the top and the crank dot also on top...in line but not next to each other...i might also pull the lifters to make sure you dont have a wiped out cam lobe, youll have good compression if your intake valves arent opening but you will still have a "dead hole"


"Are you gonna bark all day lil doggy? Or are you gonna bite?"


05 ram 2500 ctd
74 gremlin x 360
65 mustang 347
70 coronet R/T 440
03 Mach 1
Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: pnypwr] #448390
09/10/09 02:48 PM
09/10/09 02:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 480
Kentucky, USA
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derekeh Offline OP
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I have a almost new cam in a 318 im not using... Im thinking of putting the cam and lifters from it into this 340 so I can eleminate the cam as the problem.

Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: derekeh] #448391
09/10/09 09:27 PM
09/10/09 09:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
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Sixpak Offline
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When you installed the oil pump drive, did you correctly phase it in with TDC? That little slot in the top of the gear that drives the oil pump and distributor has to be pointing at # 1 cylinder when the timing mark is at TDC. If you don't have that right, your spark plug wires won't line up to what 'stock' is on the cap from the factory, and the vacuum advance unit will be pointing all funky, like towards the front of the motor, or at the firewall as you try to get the timing close.
Another way to know is look at the nipple on the vac advance unit. If the oil pump drive is correctly installed and the timing is close to being right, the nipple on the vac advance unit should be pointing at or close to the front bolt that holds the coil bracket down onto the intake.

Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: Sixpak] #448392
09/11/09 06:44 AM
09/11/09 06:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 480
Kentucky, USA
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derekeh Offline OP
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Yeah Im pretty sure I have the pump drive in the right location. When the rotor is pointing the the #1 cylinder I have plenty of room to move the distributor in either direction.

Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: derekeh] #448393
09/11/09 03:20 PM
09/11/09 03:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 480
Kentucky, USA
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derekeh Offline OP
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Okay I MAY have found the problem. When I put the piston at TDC the two dots are lined up on the timing gears. The intake valve is closed but the exhaust valve is slightly opened. So does this mean I cant go by the dots and I need to move the cam gear over a tooth?

Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: derekeh] #448394
09/11/09 05:08 PM
09/11/09 05:08 PM
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Posts: 480
Kentucky, USA
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derekeh Offline OP
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also when im at tdc and the dots are lined up my rotor is pointing away from the #1 cylinder. i was thinking it should point at #1 now?

Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: derekeh] #448395
09/11/09 05:09 PM
09/11/09 05:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,715
closer to Canadian beer!
torkrules Offline
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Quote:

Okay I MAY have found the problem. When I put the piston at TDC the two dots are lined up on the timing gears. The intake valve is closed but the exhaust valve is slightly opened. So does this mean I cant go by the dots and I need to move the cam gear over a tooth?



Don't forget there are two times that the piston is at top dead center. Once at the beginning of the power stroke and right after the exhaust stroke. The exhaust valve will be just closing and the intake will start to open, depending on the overlap.

There a two spots where the gears dots are lined up (crank dot at the top, cam dot at the bottom or at the top)

Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: torkrules] #448396
09/13/09 01:42 PM
09/13/09 01:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 480
Kentucky, USA
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derekeh Offline OP
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You are right. I cant find anything wrong with the way the cam was installed. Im going to get a dial indicator and check all the valves to see if maybe a lobe is wiped but I dont think thats the issue. Its more of a random miss... and the power absolutely sucks at all levels. Going to swap distributors monday and also try a carb swap.

Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: derekeh] #448397
09/18/09 04:36 PM
09/18/09 04:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 480
Kentucky, USA
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derekeh Offline OP
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I tried a different distributor with no luck... tried a different carb with no luck. Both of these came off of a good running 360. Also I checked something that I read in the latest issue of Mopar Muscle.... valve overlap with the #1 cylinder. It said I should be between 0 and 6 degrees after TDC and I checked in at 4 degrees so according to that my cam is probably installed close right? I have the intake off right now and was inspecting for a worn lobe but I dont see any. This is really stumping me To drive this car is almost unbearable. It doesnt miss to much now but its all it can do to get to 3k rpm in gear.

Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: derekeh] #448398
09/19/09 03:51 PM
09/19/09 03:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 480
Kentucky, USA
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derekeh Offline OP
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Also in switching the two pickup coil wires,... are you talking about the two wires going to the distributor? I tried switching them and it wouldnt run at all. Is it possible that since my heads were shaved that the valves are not closing all the way when the engine is running? Ive checked the rocker arms and they have nearly no slop in them when the valves are closed and also the lifters seem to not have any give. So should I try adjustable rockerarms or something?

Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: derekeh] #448399
09/19/09 04:07 PM
09/19/09 04:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger Offline
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See if the pushrods are bottoming out in the lifters. They should just go down no more than .060". You can loosen the rocker shaft, put the dial indicator over the pushrod cup and tighten it down and measure.

Re: Help. Cant get engine to stop missing :( [Re: RemCharger] #448400
09/19/09 04:22 PM
09/19/09 04:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 480
Kentucky, USA
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derekeh Offline OP
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The lifters wont go down much at all. Really they are dang tight. My friend has a set of adjustable rocker arms he said I could have.. should I try them out to see what it does?

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