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Best Intake for a Street 383
#44230
08/27/07 09:21 PM
08/27/07 09:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 584
Los Angeles, CA
Freiburger
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Los Angeles, CA
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OK, I'm cheating here because I know the answer. Even so, I'd like to sort of gather some opinions in order to help me formulate an article I'm about to write.
Here's the deal: We built a 383 at 0.060 over, stock bottom end, Diamond custom pistons for 10.3:1 compression, bone stock 906 heads, and a custom Comp MM solid flat cam that's like 237/242 at 0.050 on a 110. I'll tell you that the engine makes in the range of 450 lb-ft and 450 hp all under 6,000 rpm.
We tested 15 intake manifolds, altering jets on each one for optimum power. Here are the intakes we ran. The carb was an 830-cfm Holley except for the Offy 4500 intake that used a King Demon, the Six Pack that used 440 Six Pack carbs, and the dual-quad that used Edelbrock 500s:
Edelbrock DP4B
Edelbrock Performer
Edelbrock Performer RPM
Edelbrock Torker
Edelbrock TM6
Edelbrock Victor
Edelbrock Six Pack
Weiand Team G single-plane
Weiand Action Plus dual plane
Weiand single-quad tunnel ram
Offy Dual-Port
Offy 360 for 4500 carb
Offy low-rise dual quad
Mopar Performance M1 single-plane
Holley Street Dominator
Which intake "won"? Which one sucked the most? Which one do YOU run?
DF
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Freiburger]
#44234
08/27/07 09:29 PM
08/27/07 09:29 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
DJVCuda
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I Live Here
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Atco NJ
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single 4 bbl t ram? low rise dual quads? no offence but after reading your last dyno session with a t-ram and not tuning it correctly ( right carbs ) i thought you would have at least gave it another go and tried.. i bet a dual quad t-ram would have beat or held its own against the competition...provided ya did your homework this time... 
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: JohnRR]
#44243
08/27/07 09:56 PM
08/27/07 09:56 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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I'd choose the RPM as well with that combo, but I'm more than a little curious to see how the 6 pack setup did, which no one has mentioned as yet to the good or to the bad.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: BSB67]
#44248
08/27/07 10:05 PM
08/27/07 10:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 584
Los Angeles, CA
Freiburger
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Quote:
Define "won"
Well, I sort of left it open to interpretation, which is why it's in quotes. Take your pick: best peak torque, best peak hp, or best average lb-ft or hp. Name it.
DF
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
#44250
08/27/07 10:10 PM
08/27/07 10:10 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 908
North Chicagoland
newbee69
super stock
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super stock
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North Chicagoland
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Quote:
I'd choose the RPM as well with that combo, but I'm more than a little curious to see how the 6 pack setup did, which no one has mentioned as yet to the good or to the bad.
Im switchin over from an edelbrock performer RPM to edelbrock six pack. So Id like to know the results of that too. 
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Freiburger]
#44251
08/27/07 10:12 PM
08/27/07 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
BTW, has anyone ever seen a Weiand Six Pack crossram for a low-deck? I have a 440 one but have never located a B-motor version.
No such animal to my knowledge. They only made the RB version as a SS-legal intake for the 440-6 class racers.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Freiburger]
#44252
08/27/07 10:19 PM
08/27/07 10:19 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,832
Fort Morgan
1OFNONE
Has been a member for quite a few years, so relax.
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Has been a member for quite a few years, so relax.
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Posts: 1,832
Fort Morgan
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If they are all box stock my guess is; Best over all the Holley Street Dominator I run a STR-14 just for looks, not performance. [image]  [/image] [image]  [/image]
So the bartender says to the horse " Gee, Why the long face?"
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: BradH]
#44254
08/27/07 10:20 PM
08/27/07 10:20 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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I will guess....
Performer RPM #1
Holley Street #2
Action Plus #3
Torker #4
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: BradH]
#44255
08/27/07 10:24 PM
08/27/07 10:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,610
Not2farfromNashville, TN
Rug_Trucker
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I Live Here
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I bet the Offy Dual Port isn't on the bottom of the pile.
I am surprized someone actually tested an Offy anything as they haven't done any developement, and spend little money if any advertising.
"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: supserdave]
#44260
08/27/07 11:52 PM
08/27/07 11:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 902
Bellevue, WA
Blackwidow69
Ring Knocker
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Ring Knocker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 902
Bellevue, WA
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Well I will jump on the bandwagon as well since I own it.
Performer RPM best for average hp/torque.
Holley Street Dominator close second.
And I know you already said but that Offy dual port thing is just an awful design so my guess would have been it at the bottom.
Todd
Last edited by Blackwidow69; 08/27/07 11:54 PM.
1969 Ply Roadrunner, 383 4-speed on street tires.
3,830 lbs race weight.
Best 1/4: 13.1 @ 106.83
440 & overdrive 4 speed going in.
2005 Power Wagon 35X12.5 KM2's
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Freiburger]
#44264
08/28/07 12:19 AM
08/28/07 12:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,431
SK,Canada
gregsrt
top fuel
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top fuel
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SK,Canada
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Edelbrock TM6 the best?  Had one on my Bee, awesome top end, .474 hemi cam and it made power to 6300rpm
An association of men who will not quarrel with one another is a thing which has never yet existed, from the greatest confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry.
Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: bacaruda]
#44266
08/28/07 12:42 AM
08/28/07 12:42 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
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master
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Puyallup, WA
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After reading all the reviews & articles I could find, I chose the RPM, & topped it with a Holley 750-vac. So I'm hopin' my research was correct. Fits under the hood too!
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: DirectSubjection]
#44268
08/28/07 03:30 AM
08/28/07 03:30 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861
Riverside, Ca
R70RUNNER
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master
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Riverside, Ca
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I bet the 2x4 offy is not the winner either, but I still like the look on my 451
Current cars: 2000 Dak Quad Cab, 2012 Challenger,1970 Road Runner, 1994 Firehawk
1966 Coronet post sedan, 1988 Corvette, 2005 Magnum RT all SOLD
R70RUNNER<---VP Inland Empire Chapter of the MPM
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: R70RUNNER]
#44269
08/28/07 04:26 AM
08/28/07 04:26 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861
Riverside, Ca
R70RUNNER
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master
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Riverside, Ca
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The winner will be..... Perf. RPM Really like the way it behaves on my 383 that's even more mild then the test mule
Last edited by R70RUNNER; 08/28/07 05:02 AM.
Current cars: 2000 Dak Quad Cab, 2012 Challenger,1970 Road Runner, 1994 Firehawk
1966 Coronet post sedan, 1988 Corvette, 2005 Magnum RT all SOLD
R70RUNNER<---VP Inland Empire Chapter of the MPM
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: JohnRR]
#44272
08/28/07 10:29 AM
08/28/07 10:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
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I Live Here
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Freiberger, thanks for turning Car Craft around, you have a knack for the average hot rodder's way of thinking. don't lose that quest for real info as you move up the ladder.
I think with the engine you built the RPM should be at the top of the heap, along with the 6-pack. Possibly the newest Weiand Stealth if that's what you had.
My "long-term stroker" 451 gets a Torker 383 because it was $50 and almost new.
I am interested in the dual-port as I have one collecting dust. How about a dyno test at half-throttle with BSFC numbers for the D-P, Performer and RPM.
R.
Last edited by dogdays; 08/28/07 10:35 AM.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: dogdays]
#44275
08/28/07 11:58 AM
08/28/07 11:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 152
Virginia
meep69
member
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member
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Virginia
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Torker 383 here too, cuz it was FREE!  Wondering what the numbers were tho. Cuz my 383 moder is very similar with less compression / cam.
Backyard-restored 69 RR.
Yellow.
383 4 spd.
3.23 8 3/4  I need 3.91's!!!!):
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: meep69]
#44276
08/28/07 12:11 PM
08/28/07 12:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,134
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
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Quote:
Torker 383 here too, cuz it was FREE!
Wondering what the numbers were tho. Cuz my 383 moder is very similar with less compression / cam.
and i bet its pretty doggy down low , my friend just swapped off a torker off his stock 383 in his RR for an old weiand dual plane and it drives alot better now ....
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: InViolent]
#44278
08/28/07 12:23 PM
08/28/07 12:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
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I Live Here
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The last one similar to that I ran the Torker. I think the carb is a bit large INO for that setup tho. I think the dual quad intakes would help that, and I'll put the overall average TQ and Hp on the 6bbl, then the RPM, then the Torker. I dont believe the SD B version is as good as the RB, and the M1 IMO is flat too large, especially with that carb, to make a good average when it's done by 6K. I'm curious how the Weiand Ation Plus did. I've never run them. I always thought they looked too much like factory to work well. but I know a few others that like them. I never liked the TM series Edelbrocks. That last hook in the port by the bolts I never liked...lol. So, how many months do we have to wait to get results? 
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: meep69]
#44280
08/28/07 01:02 PM
08/28/07 01:02 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I'm looking at the cam they used and thinking in a 383 with that cam a single planes gonna make the top of the list. Where do you guys think the peak RPM/horsepowers gonna fall with that combo? Driveability and average #s might well be with the Perf. RPM, but I would think the M1 or Weiand single planes got an advantage peak wise over even the RPM. Don't know a thing about the Victor for 383, but if the one I ran on my sb Chevy years back is an indicator, the Victor likes it way up rpm wise over most all those other intakes. Might be a bit much for that setup.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Freiburger]
#44281
08/28/07 01:07 PM
08/28/07 01:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 303
Portland, OR
Banzaiii67
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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Portland, OR
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1st- Edelbrock Six Pack 2nd- Edelbrock Performer RPM 3rd- Holley Street Dominator Worst- Offy Dual-Port Or Edelbrock Performer What do I run? My 383 runs a Performer RPM EDIT: Haha I was right on the first two
Last edited by Scatpack71; 08/28/07 01:13 PM.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: moper]
#44282
08/28/07 01:11 PM
08/28/07 01:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 584
Los Angeles, CA
Freiburger
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We have a winner: "I'll put the overall average TQ and Hp on the 6bbl, then the RPM, then the Torker."
Here's what our test showed. Each test is an average of two dyno pulls to remove anomolies. The numbers shown represent average power from 2,500 to 6,000 rpm. However, even averages do not tell the entire story. For example, the Torker and the RPM have the same average numbers, but they are not the same: the power curves cross at 3,900 rpm, with the Torker making more high-end and the RPM making more low end.
As for peak power, the Torker, Street Dominator, M1, and Victor were all at 455-456 hp at 5,900 rpm.
Nearly every manifold made 450-460 lb-ft at 3,800-4,100 rpm. Most of the dual-planes were way stronger than most of the single planes at rpm points below peak torque. Duh.
I think the tunnel ram would have done a lot better as a dual quad. I was surprised how well the Six Pack did, but I think that's because of this engine's low-rpm and low displacement. Six Packs have killed big power in other tests with other more radical engines.
That just proves that you really have to consider the test before you can make a judgement call, and you can't just look at one point of data and say "that's best" overall. It will also be interesting to see how this may change when we put better heads on the engine. If the 906 heads are currently the restriction, then other weak points in the intakes will be revealed with better heads.
More data in the December issue of HRM.
2500-6000 AVG
INTAKE LB-FT HP
Six Pack 428 348
Torker 427 348
Perf RPM 425 346
Victor 383 425 346
M1 single 424 345
1x4 tr 425 346
TM6 424 345
DP4B 424 344
Performer 422 341
Action Plus 421 341
Street Dom 421 344
Team G 409 334
Offy 360 406 338
Offy 2x4 408 330
Offy DP 404 327
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Freiburger]
#44284
08/28/07 01:24 PM
08/28/07 01:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 908
North Chicagoland
newbee69
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 908
North Chicagoland
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thats good news for me. Im running very close to the same setup that you are and just switched from the RPM to the six pack. I look forward to your tests with the heads done because thats next on my list. Thanks for a good thread.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Banzaiii67]
#44285
08/28/07 01:32 PM
08/28/07 01:32 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Looks like weiand and offy need to spend some money and re-engineer their products!
..no kidding. I figured the Weiand Team G intake to be one of the better ones listed. BTW, like someone else said, great job.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: InViolent]
#44289
08/28/07 01:36 PM
08/28/07 01:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 584
Los Angeles, CA
Freiburger
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Yep. For street/strip, the RPM is almost always a "can't go wrong" choice.
DF
Last edited by Freiburger; 08/28/07 01:37 PM.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: InViolent]
#44290
08/28/07 01:38 PM
08/28/07 01:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,588
St. John's Newfoundland
440newport
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St. John's Newfoundland
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Quote:
OK...but if you look at what you can do with your mill for the old "bang for the buck" premise, a 4bbl on top of the RPM is WINNER IMHO.
Best bang for the buck looks to be a $75 25 year old used torker and 850 holley. 
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Banzaiii67]
#44291
08/28/07 01:39 PM
08/28/07 01:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 584
Los Angeles, CA
Freiburger
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mopar
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Quote:
..no kidding. I figured the Weiand Team G intake to be one of the better ones listed.
Team G sucks, I had it on a 383 w/ the large summit cam and it was horrible, i ended up putting a edelbrock performer intake and it ran a lot better. This test just proved my feeling for weiand products.
For what it's worth, the Weiand intakes we tested are really old designs. The company is currently revamping most of its intakes, and the Chevy stuff we've seen from them so far is really good.
DF
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Freiburger]
#44294
08/28/07 01:56 PM
08/28/07 01:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,112
Oregon
AndyF
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I Win
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One thing that is tough (impossible?) to test on the dyno is the throttle response. I suppose the shape of the torque curve gives an indication but it isn't he whole story. The big single planes can make good torque on the dyno but sometimes on the street they have a hole in the throttle response. I've found that the Performer RPM really works on the street even if it gives up a few ponies on the top end. I bet the factory six pack setup also works great on a mild motor.
I did a manifold test for PHR a few years back where we tested the Performer RPM against the Victor 383 on my low deck 470 motor. The Victor made a couple of more hp than the RPM on the chassis dyno but it was a dog compared to the RPM in the "punch from a roll" test. The RPM would smoke the tires at will while the Victor had a bit of a bog.
One thing I want to do is to try to run a Dominator on my street car with a dual plane intake. I want to see if I can actually tune a Dominator to work at part throttle and still make the power on the top end. I wish someone made a BB Mopar intake that was dual plane with a 4500 flange but nobody does. I always liked that old C454 intake that Edelbrock made for the BBC motor.
Last edited by AndyF; 08/28/07 01:59 PM.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Banzaiii67]
#44296
08/28/07 03:19 PM
08/28/07 03:19 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
For what it's worth, the Weiand intakes we tested are really old designs. The company is currently revamping most of its intakes, and the Chevy stuff we've seen from them so far is really good.
DF
Have the fixed their narley casting?
Lol. I've got an old Weiand Team G intake for 383(not currently on motor) and it is a bit of a rough casting appearance wise. Even the floor of the plenum is grainy enough looking that I always wonderred if it might be a bit porous once engine was heated up.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
#44297
08/28/07 03:42 PM
08/28/07 03:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 761
KY
juicedcuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 761
KY
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i have the rpm on my 383 now. i am about to start spraying it though. wont i see a better gain using a single plane like the M1.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda
1970 Plum Crazy "Gold Duster"
1973 Gold Duster
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Freiburger]
#44299
08/28/07 04:10 PM
08/28/07 04:10 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 363
Missouri
petty43
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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Posts: 363
Missouri
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Do you have any numbers on a stock 4 barrel 383 intake?
1968 Satellite RR Copy Cat
My Fleet
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Freiburger]
#44300
08/28/07 04:12 PM
08/28/07 04:12 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
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Perfect timing, David; this is just the thing to make you go  on the "magazine" thread.  Still lots of useful stuff going on, obviously. We also had a recent thread on the viability of a six pack on a stroker LA, so although we can't make direct comparisons, this is interesting in that context as well. I look forward to buying the mag and reading the rest of the article. Good work.  Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Freiburger]
#44301
08/28/07 04:13 PM
08/28/07 04:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,134
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
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I Win
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A Banana Republic near you.
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well i called the big loser right on , but thats only going off info i read on the internet .. i'm impressed wit hthe numbers from the DP4B , i'm glad i recently bought another one .
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: 1OFNONE]
#44303
08/28/07 06:41 PM
08/28/07 06:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,832
Fort Morgan
1OFNONE
Has been a member for quite a few years, so relax.
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Has been a member for quite a few years, so relax.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,832
Fort Morgan
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Thanks for all the compliments on my street car. I have alot of fun driving it.
I wanted the drug out of a barn vintage drag car look.
Thanks again guys.
Maybe I will send some photos into a magazine.
So the bartender says to the horse " Gee, Why the long face?"
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Freiburger]
#44307
08/29/07 05:59 AM
08/29/07 05:59 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,442
Texas
Daty Rogers
World's Greatest Husband. I love you Robyn
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World's Greatest Husband. I love you Robyn
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,442
Texas
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Quote:
We have a winner: "I'll put the overall average TQ and Hp on the 6bbl, then the RPM, then the Torker."
rpm.
2500-6000 AVG
INTAKE LB-FT HP
Six Pack 428 348
Torker 427 348
Perf RPM 425 346
Victor 383 425 346
M1 single 424 345
1x4 tr 425 346
TM6 424 345
DP4B 424 344
Performer 422 341
Action Plus 421 341
Street Dom 421 344
Team G 409 334
Offy 360 406 338
Offy 2x4 408 330
Offy DP 404 327
What's interesting is there is only about a 5% difference top to bottom.
-Daty
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: gch]
#44309
08/29/07 12:24 PM
08/29/07 12:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,815
Sobieski Wi
bee1971
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master
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Sobieski Wi
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2500-6000 AVG
INTAKE LB-FT HP
Six Pack 428 348
Torker 427 348
Perf RPM 425 346
Victor 383 425 346
M1 single 424 345
1x4 tr 425 346
TM6 424 345
DP4B 424 344
Performer 422 341
Action Plus 421 341
Street Dom 421 344
Team G 409 334
Offy 360 406 338
Offy 2x4 408 330
Offy DP 404 327
From the Street Dominator to the Six Pack there is a difference of 7 #s of torque and 4 HP
Like anyone will notice that seat of the pants on the street - Sounds like all good intakes on average
However what makes the most HP and Torque say around 5500 - 5800 or even 6000 rpms were most of us might shift gears on our street 383 motors ???
I bet the Street Dominator is close to the top
I would like to see exact #s down low and exact #s at 5500 6000
Thats the great thing about the Street Dominator
Decent #s down low for a single plane(Right there on average with the best dual planes)but it really shines on top i bet say 5500 - 6000 rpms
Scott
THANX FOR ALL THE GREAT INFO - GOOD JOB BY THE WAY !!!
1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: DynoDave]
#44313
08/29/07 01:01 PM
08/29/07 01:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
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Cool. I agree on why the 6bbl did well. Small engine, decently low peaks. I'm curious tho. It seems that all these are a little softer than I would expect from the parts listed. How mu ch fussing was needed to dial them all in? Which one had the best BSFC at peak tq, and what was that number? I like these tests, but sometimes you just uncover a whole bunch more questions. thanks for making us think!
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: DynoDave]
#44314
08/29/07 01:10 PM
08/29/07 01:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 584
Los Angeles, CA
Freiburger
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mopar
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Los Angeles, CA
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Here are just a few data points. Also, a reminder that this thing had STOCK heads. I think the heads were the restriction, therefore the manifolds did not make drastic changes; except for the really bad ones, the different intakes just wiggled the numbers around by 5-10 hp or shifted them to the low rpm (dual plane) or high rpm (single plane). I'm pretty certain there will be more difference between the intakes once some better heads are on the engine. I find that out at the end of the month.
Street Dominator
3,000: 381, 217
4,000: 449, 342
6,000: 395, 452
Torker
3,000: 395, 225
4,000: 455, 356
6,000: 397, 454
Perf RPM
3,000: 408, 233
4,000: 457, 348
6,000: 392, 448
DP4B
3,000: 419, 239
4,000: 454, 346
6,000: 387, 442
Performer
3,000: 418, 238
4,000: 452, 344
6,000: 382, 436
Six Pack
3,000: 413, 236
4,000: 459, 350
6,000: 391, 447
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: moper]
#44316
08/29/07 01:20 PM
08/29/07 01:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 584
Los Angeles, CA
Freiburger
OP
mopar
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mopar
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Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
It seems that all these are a little softer than I would expect from the parts listed. How mu ch fussing was needed to dial them all in? Which one had the best BSFC at peak tq, and what was that number? I like these tests, but sometimes you just uncover a whole bunch more questions. thanks for making us think!
You realize these are average numbers, right? (except for the ones in my most recent post) Peaks with the Six Pack, for example, were 459 lbs-ft at 4,000 and 450 hp at 5,900. I thought that was pretty good for stock heads (you wouldn't get there with stock heads on a similar 383 Chevy).
BSFC at peak torque was .41-.50. Different intakes liked different amounts of fuel. We jetted the Holley on each setup to find optimum, but could not do so on the Six Pack (which was good out of the box, perhaps a little fat) or the Edelbrock dual quads.
Sheez, I might as well just write the entire story here! But the questions help me know what you guys want to see. Thanks.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Freiburger]
#44319
08/29/07 01:59 PM
08/29/07 01:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,112
Oregon
AndyF
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Oregon
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Here is the article I did for Mopar Muscle back in 2005. This was a low deck stroker motor (470 inches) that made 550 at the crank and 475 at the rear tires. The Performer RPM was much better than the Victor 383 for street driving and on the dyno they were very close. The Victor made a little more on the top end but gave up a bunch of torque at the bottom. Since you'll be running headers you might see the Victor make some more power. I was running a MP .528 cam so if your next dyno test uses a bigger cam then the single planes might pull ahead a bit more. http://www.compcams.com/Community/Articles/Details.asp?ID=2004264609
Last edited by AndyF; 08/29/07 02:04 PM.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: AndyF]
#44322
08/29/07 04:39 PM
08/29/07 04:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
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I Live Here
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Well, I didnt realize they were stock heads...lol. I know I read it. I just didnt recall it when it mattered . On the averages, I was thinking the tq average should be fairly close to peak value anyway, given the range of the test values. Meaning they wouldnt have had real peaky results and they'd exibit fairly flat tq curves. Maybe my thinking is off on that too. I'd like to see some back to back stuff if you're bored. A nice one would be the Holley/Edelbrock/Demon/someone's custom shop version carbs on a street type 4.25 stroke BB. Or 2.08 vs 2.14/2.18 valved iron heads with the same level of porting on a small bore (383) wedge.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: moper]
#44323
08/29/07 05:21 PM
08/29/07 05:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,112
Oregon
AndyF
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Oregon
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Well if you're talking to me I'll say that I don't intend to ever do another Mopar article with cast iron heads. The last one I did was the 383 stroker article for Mopar Muscle. The Eddy heads picked up about 50 hp over a set of non-professionally ported 906 heads. After that dyno test I sold the heads and I also sold all of my core heads. So I don't even have any cast iron heads in my shop anymore and I don't intend to ever buy any or work on any again. Breathing cast iron dust just isn't any fun for me! http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0605_mopar_performance_383_stroker_engine
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Freiburger]
#44325
08/29/07 09:23 PM
08/29/07 09:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,134
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
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Quote:
What's amazing is that you saw 500 hp with iron heads. We haven't gotten that from 906s even with bigger engines that have larger cams. Perhaps that pocket porting was better than you thought.
you want to be more amazed , check out the 383 in member fast68plymouth , Dwayne Porter/Porter Racing Heads ... hows 500HP with NON PORTED 906's (ok they are NHRA STOCK LEGAL)it's a 383 , maybe punched out to .060 ??? , the numbers wit hthe stock intake and carb where fairly impressive also .
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: JohnRR]
#44326
08/29/07 09:57 PM
08/29/07 09:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
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Andy, I was talking more to Dave. I agree using aluminum makes the most sense today. But the vast majority of guys building these things are still using iron. Some with the understanding that they will not end up keeping them on there. And there's some misinformation regarding even their use on some setups due to advances in cylinder head understanding. (like Dwayne's...) I sympathize with you. But reality is there's still thousands more sets of iron being re-used than there are aluminum at this point. And many of the readers of the mags are the guys who will run iron first for budget reasons.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Freiburger]
#44330
08/29/07 11:33 PM
08/29/07 11:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Management Trainee
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Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
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Quote:
Thing is, by the time you buy some 906s, clean them; mag 'em; mill them; install new guides, valves, and seats; get a valve job; and enlarge the seats, you're halfway to a new set of aluminum heads.
Probably more, easily 2/3's, I don't know how many times people have come on here talking about the loss of heat from the aluminum equals lost power, instead of looking at the advantages looking for a reason to stay with the old tech... 
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: JohnRR]
#44331
08/30/07 01:17 AM
08/30/07 01:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,515
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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just put a bigger cam in it, and some bigger headers, and the peaks will climb several hundred RPM......and the numbers should go up too.
my stock 906 headed, TRW piston, 400 cast crank 383 pushed my heap into the 11.20's at 3650lbs with a steel flat hood, and 11-teens at 3550lbs with a six pack hood.
my motor made peak HP around 6200, and peak tq around 4300 with an RPM intake and 1 7/8" headers.
my buddies NHRA stocker Pontiac makes 470-ish hp with heads that are nowhere near as good as 906 heads(they flow like 210cfm @ .425 lift), and he's doing it with a .425 lift hyd cam, and the stock intake and carb.
it was #9 qualifier at the Toyo Nationals a couple weeks ago in Reading, Pa. with a 10.86 (1.08 under the index) at 3450lbs, and actually went a 10.81 on the brakes during eliminations.
i'm just saying 470hp from heads that flow 225-230cfm isnt really all that hard to do.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#44332
08/30/07 04:16 AM
08/30/07 04:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 584
Los Angeles, CA
Freiburger
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mopar
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Quote:
just put a bigger cam in it, and some bigger headers, and the peaks will climb several hundred RPM......and the numbers should go up too.
i'm just saying 470hp from heads that flow 225-230cfm isnt really all that hard to do.
Nope. In fact, the same 383 used in the intake test that started the thread made 466 hp at 6,300 with a Victor intake and with a 263/267 solid flat-tappet.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Kingy]
#44333
08/30/07 06:12 AM
08/30/07 06:12 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Glad to see the SD is in the list as I use one. Although not optimal for a 8.7:1 mild 400 I'll probably hang on to it when future upgrades hit unless I come across an RPM for a good price which could probably then twist my arm in getting rid of the SD.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Freiburger]
#44334
08/30/07 08:41 AM
08/30/07 08:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,134
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
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Quote:
Thing is, by the time you buy some 906s, clean them; mag 'em; mill them; install new guides, valves, and seats; get a valve job; and enlarge the seats, you're halfway to a new set of aluminum heads.
true , but when you build to run in a class like FAST you HAVE to run stock iron heads , so the point of the cost is MOOT , you either bite the bullet and do it or buy the alum heads and bracket race .
i've got more money than the cost of ebroks in 2 sets of 906's i presently have , one because the shop i had dod them originally madethem flow worse than stock with their COMPETITION VALVE JOB , and i'm having another set done to be pure stock legal that will probably be as much as a set of ebrocks , probably more ...
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: AndyF]
#44336
08/30/07 12:12 PM
08/30/07 12:12 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
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I'm not debating the logic behind AL heads. I've spent past $1200 on 3 or 4 sets of iron heads in the past year. The fact is, these guys either didnt want AL for whaever reason, or decided to cut the $200 difference and run iron factory. RPMs are upt $1300+ now, and the arguably obligatory fix up another $200. Yes, they are lighter, yes the chambers will help with the pump crud now, yes the ports flow better even in OOTB form, yes they look nicer. But, it comes to "I dont have the $200 more. Just redo the iron". As far as HP, I've got several 440s running around with what I'd call amature porting (read as mine... ) that make close to 500hp. It's not hard to do. But to get that on a 383, that's a bit more of a stretch unless you plan to run higher compression and cam/rev them. Then it's not really that hard either. Hence my suggestions.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: supserdave]
#44338
08/31/07 11:26 AM
08/31/07 11:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,704
MICHIGAN
DynoDave
master
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master
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Posts: 3,704
MICHIGAN
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Quote:
The real test will be when you get some better heads and a bigger cam. With the weak point being the intake, then the big differences between all of them will come out.
This is still great data, shows you don't have to spend money on aluminum heads and still make good numbers for a street car.
Another side question, is about 450hp the limit for stock heads on a 440 as well, with a similar build?
If by "real test", you are refering to the limits of the manifolds capabilities, I'd agree with you.
As far as this test being a "real test", this initial setup is much more reflective of what I will run than something with better heads and a bigger cam will be. So I'm quite pleased they chose this combo as a starting point.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: DynoDave]
#44339
08/31/07 11:51 AM
08/31/07 11:51 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
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Quote:
As far as this test being a "real test", this initial setup is much more reflective of what I will run than something with better heads and a bigger cam will be. So I'm quite pleased they chose this combo as a starting point.
Jack, there are plenty of threads on running Edelbrocks out of the box. Some do it and love them. Some have them looked at by good head shops, and those routinely find minor "issues". -I wont run them out of the box, because I feel if I'm spending the $$, I want all the possble benefits. I think there's a lot of guys running them OOTB that leave some on the table becuase of Edelbrock's mass production. And BTW, it's the case with every aftermarket head out there. Not just Mopars, not just Edelbrocks. MP is possibly the worst.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: DynoDave]
#44340
08/31/07 12:08 PM
08/31/07 12:08 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
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Quote:
Quote:
The real test will be when you get some better heads and a bigger cam. With the weak point being the intake, then the big differences between all of them will come out.
This is still great data, shows you don't have to spend money on aluminum heads and still make good numbers for a street car.
Another side question, is about 450hp the limit for stock heads on a 440 as well, with a similar build?
If by "real test", you are refering to the limits of the manifolds capabilities, I'd agree with you.
As far as this test being a "real test", this initial setup is much more reflective of what I will run than something with better heads and a bigger cam will be. So I'm quite pleased they chose this combo as a starting point.
In fact, this is a refreshing change from the usual practice of bolting on intakes to some 600hp tricked out mill. People read that stuff and then apply it to thier own (much more basic) motor combos and don't realize they screwed up!
If you don't have the head flow and maybe are limited by your stock HP manifolds then an intake or cam geared towards high rpm hp production is a step in the wrong direction. Those people would be far better off using components aimed at improving thier low and mid range torque capabilities.
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: DPelletier]
#44341
08/31/07 11:56 PM
08/31/07 11:56 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Andy,, what ever happened to that 432 engine. I thought that was a very interesting artical & would have loved ot see it go to a Tunnel Ram & full tune. Or hey, what about that plus another point of CR & run it on E85. Or you could just box up the pieces that where left & send them to me Opp's, sorry I guess I am kinda Hyjacking a good thread here. You know I am not surprized that a Six pack done as good as it did in this test. I think with more head flow & the right tuning the Six Pack will surprized all again. You have to step up pretty good to out do those setups. But once you step up that far its a whole differnt ball game. Jess
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: Freiburger]
#44342
09/01/07 12:26 PM
09/01/07 12:26 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
More data in the December issue of HRM.
Okay, I'm new to this site and need some assistance in getting up to speed. What magazine does Freiburger write for? I want to pick up that issue for sure. When will that issue be on newsstands?
It's wonderful to see some attention directed to the often-overlooked B 383 engine. My personal pick is the DP4B. Although I haven't had a chance to try it yet, I purchased it off eBay for the following reasons:
1) It has a near stock looking appearance. I've seen guys’ paint these old intakes engine-color. To the untrained eye, it looks stock, perfect for that sleeper look, or for the purist that is after that factory look, but still wants some improved performance as well.
2) This intake actually has a Chrysler P/N #.
3) Now to find out, this intake makes some good low-end torque for the peaky little 383, right on!
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
#44343
09/01/07 12:56 PM
09/01/07 12:56 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 902
Bellevue, WA
Blackwidow69
Ring Knocker
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Ring Knocker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 902
Bellevue, WA
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Well, Freiburger doesn't just write, he is the overall editor for HOT ROD magazine. At one point he was editor for like 4 mags but I beleive he has successfully squared them all away(read that as added mopar content) and is now mostly focusing on the biggest, HOT ROD.
Todd
1969 Ply Roadrunner, 383 4-speed on street tires.
3,830 lbs race weight.
Best 1/4: 13.1 @ 106.83
440 & overdrive 4 speed going in.
2005 Power Wagon 35X12.5 KM2's
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: AndyF]
#44344
09/01/07 02:35 PM
09/01/07 02:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,440
Warren, MI
71TA
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Quote:
Here is the article I did for Mopar Muscle back in 2005. This was a low deck stroker motor (470 inches) that made 550 at the crank and 475 at the rear tires. The Performer RPM was much better than the Victor 383 for street driving and on the dyno they were very close. The Victor made a little more on the top end but gave up a bunch of torque at the bottom. Since you'll be running headers you might see the Victor make some more power. I was running a MP .528 cam so if your next dyno test uses a bigger cam then the single planes might pull ahead a bit more.
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Articles/Details.asp?ID=2004264609
Thats MY moder now I put a Victor on and it STUNK on the street (plus Andy had sold me the short block with a tad bigger Comp mechanical cam). I switched the cam to the MP 528 and the intake to the RPM and LOVE IT. I JUST got back from runnig to the auto parts store in and grocery store. When I stopped by the auto parts store in Detroit I drew a crowd. Lit em up in 2 gears (almost got away from me) for the the crowd. Thanks again Andy!
Oh and the moder also has max ported (Modern Cylinder Head) Edelbrocks.
NOW that I have an LM1 I'd love to try a six pack again. there is no way to run a six pack without an LM1 to tune it. Trust me! But I have no $$$ now-a-days
PS Good to meet you (Freiburger) at my gasket tent at the Nats! Tell your buddy to get me those Ramcharger (air grabber) gaskets. Thanks!
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: 71TA]
#44345
09/02/07 11:52 AM
09/02/07 11:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,515
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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my basic combo is:
-383 + .030(4.280 X 3.388), 390ci
-TRW L2315's, block decked for +.018 deck height, std replacement OE type rings
-cast crank from a 400, offset ground for +.013" stroke, externally balanced
-906 heads, OE replacement valves, good VJ, milled to 80cc,
dual springs, no porting
-256/262, .560/.580, 106lsa cam
-Isky iron rockers, 1.5 ratio
-OE oil pan, 3/8" p/u, original 100,000 mile oil pump with HP spring(80psi hot)
i tested a bunch of carbs, some pullies, etc, and here are some selected results(as taken from the Tech Archives).
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Best Intake for a Street 383
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#44346
10/10/07 09:56 PM
10/10/07 09:56 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I was quite happy to see the 383 buildup.My Charger's 383 has a MP repro magnum cam,906's,a DP4B with a 4 hole spacer and a 780 Holley.I don't have any dyno specs or timeslips,but it's right there when you step on it!I gotta get the brakes,electrical,and steering sorted out before I try driving it again!
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.......I'll wager a guess on top 4 now-1)M1 2)Weiand Team G 3)Eddy 6 pack 4)TM-6
