https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post5344236

From this previous thread, John Kunkel thinks I have an issue with the Belleville spring (Piston spring in ATSG manual.
Driving forward in Neutral and no Reverse is caused by a rear clutch that's not releasing, most common cause is a failed Belleville spring.

I have the trans out and disassymbled.

I can't remove the input shaft, rear clutch assymble from the Driving shell, Planetary gear train.

The ATSG mentions nothing about the seperation, and my 727 video shows them just coming apart.

~6" down the input shaft, there is a bearing surface and just below that is a ~snap/ round ring in a grove that has a dog leg on it. For the life of me I can't get it out. So I gave up and posted

Could it be that as John K stated, the rear clutch is hanging up and will not it allow it to seperate? With the output shaft in a hole in my bench, as I spin the driving shell, the rear clutch rotates in the opposite direction.....you can hear a slight drag of something in there.

Any ideas appreciated. Thanks

Most likely the clutch discs are hanging up, sometimes you can lift the transmission by the tailhousing and squarely slam it on the floor face down, the shock will usually dislodge them.

I've had some that wouldn't come apart, as a last resort I had to cut a hole in the driving shell to access the clutch pack snap ring.

The reverse rotation of the driving shell is normal.

John, how and what are they hanging up on?

I may make an Aluminum clamp around the input shaft and press down on the shell. I tried
holding the input shaft up off the bench and whacking the shell with a rubber mallet, and no luck.

What is the little round ring with dog leg I described?

Thanks 1000x for your help.!

Yes, front drum is off.....If I can't get it apart or have a shop that can't get it. What is the best way to salvage it with least amount of new parts?
What is locked to what that is preventing seperation?

Thanks guys!

I'd probably want to save the sun shell and the geartrain so I would probably trash the rear clutch retainer .

Do you have any spare parts ? You can use parts from a 727 ...

I have a parts 727 and a 904 laying around....
on what do I perform surgery to get them apart?

Can you post a picture of what's stuck together ?

of course I'm on my way out the door

The input shaft is attached to the rear clutch assembly.
The rear clutch assembly is inside of the Driving shell.
The driving shell has the planetaries and output shaft.

The rear clutch assembly is stuck inside the driving shell.

I want to know what inside the rear clutch assembly is grabbing what in the driving shell.

I'll try to post a pic tonight, but there's not much to see beyond that description.

Thanks!

Got it apart! clutches fused to steels.

We locked the output shaft in a brass vise on a bench, and double vise-gripped aluminum around the input shaft with a choker cable over the visegrips and a 1 ton come-along. End up pulling the snap ring over
the end of the output shaft and the hole mess feel apart. Rear clutch housing isn't blued, but it has some brown (on the outside!) also broke
the splined housing on the front of the rear clutch (wacking with a rubber mallet).

The Belleville spring looks fine.

The planetary gears look a little rough on the edges and some deep scratchs on the alum planetary carriers.

Any idea what caused the failure?

Thanks for your help!

Was the rear clutch piston still in its bore?

A common failure is for a weak Belleville to allow the clutch piston to pop out of its bore and jam the discs, if this occurs the Belleville will usually look OK.

You know, I think it was out of it's bore.

The Belleville spring does have a fine wear line
all around it ~1" from the outer edge.

Any other possible causes?

I have and 85' 727 that I just took apart....
The pieces look the same. Any noticable
changes off the top of your head between 85' and 93' on the clutches and planetaries?

Thanks John!

The wear line is normal where it contacts the pressure plate, I would recommend a brand new Belleville because any used one could be weak and.....deja vu.

'85 and '93 have the same output shaft spline, '94 and later is different.