Distributor wires-pos/neg UPDATED
#370897
07/09/09 11:18 AM
07/09/09 11:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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I'm finally getting around to wiring up the MSD ignition to my big block. I have a mopar electronic ignition distributor with a grey and black wire and the rubber 2 pin connector.
my 1970 Cuda wire diagrams are all for points ignitions
the aftermarket chrysler electronic ignition diagram just says "to distributor plug" and doesn't say which color wire is positive or negative
MSD website says the distributor wires are orange and black...mine are black and grey.
the plug from the electronic ignion box has a grey wire with black tracer also marked "fusible link" and a brown wire with white tracer.
here's how the wires from distributor plug match up to the plug from the stock electronic ignition box:
Orange box side / Distributor side
Grey w/Black tracer -- Black
Brown w/ white tracer -- Grey
Thanks for making it confusing! (distributor and orange box all came from the same source)
I'm assuming that the Black wire out of the distributor is ground, and the grey wire out of the distributor is positive?
more importantly, being a magnetic pick up that is either "open" or "closed"...does it even matter?
Last edited by 70Cuda383; 07/13/09 12:36 PM.
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Re: Distributor wires-pos/neg
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#370898
07/09/09 12:38 PM
07/09/09 12:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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Yeah, you would think after all these years they would show some more of the possible wiring combinations out there. I guess they seem to assume you can figure it out. 
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: Distributor wires-pos/neg
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#370899
07/09/09 12:48 PM
07/09/09 12:48 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Maybe you can tell from the original plug? I believe the white/ red units, the white connects to the distributor male prong on the original plug.
Neither of the two wires is ground. The output of the dist. is an AC pulse. Because it goes both positive and negative, the polarity will affect timing (phasing) at the dist, so I'd assume that polarity is important.
Even though you probably know the phasing discussion turned into a huge fiasco, I'd bet that changing the polarity of those wires WILL change dist. phase by a large amount.
I would not cut off the original plug. those two prong plugs should be available easily at most any NAPA or other parts store, probably sold in pairs.
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Re: Distributor wires-pos/neg
#370900
07/09/09 02:54 PM
07/09/09 02:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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Quote:
Maybe you can tell from the original plug? I believe the white/ red units, the white connects to the distributor male prong on the original plug.
Neither of the two wires is ground. The output of the dist. is an AC pulse. Because it goes both positive and negative, the polarity will affect timing (phasing) at the dist, so I'd assume that polarity is important.
Even though you probably know the phasing discussion turned into a huge fiasco, I'd bet that changing the polarity of those wires WILL change dist. phase by a large amount.
I would not cut off the original plug. those two prong plugs should be available easily at most any NAPA or other parts store, probably sold in pairs.
I don't WANT to cut off the plug! I am leaving the plug on the distributor, and I have the opposite plug that I removed from the wire harness that used to be on the Cuda, and I want to solder THAT plug and wires onto the MSD box, so that I can plug it straight into the stock distributor...but I cannot do that unless I know which wire is positive, and which wire is negative. the MSD shows green as the distributor negative, and purple as the distributor positive.
the spare plug I have has the brown/white and grey/black wires, exactly like the orange box ignition. the problem with that, is my wire diagram that came with the orange box simply shows "To distributor" and doesn't call out positive or negative...due to the design of the plug, it's impossible to screw that up, so they must have figured you didn't need to know which one was which.
that's all fine and dandy when you're plugging the orange box into the stock distributor because it's a simple "plug and play" but now that I want to put that style plug on the MSD box, I need to know which wire to connect to the green one from the MSD, and which wire to connect to the purple MSD...and the fact that they changed the color of the wires at the distributor plug further complicates things!
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Re: Distributor wires-pos/neg
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#370901
07/09/09 02:58 PM
07/09/09 02:58 PM
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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So, here are my options!
MSD wires soldered to plug from orange box plugged into stock distributor
Green soldered to Grey w/Black tracer plugs into Black
Purple soldered to Brown w/ white tracer plugs into Grey
OR
Purple soldered to Grey w/Black tracer plugs into Black
Green solderd to Brown w/ white tracer plugs into Grey
Last edited by 70Cuda383; 07/09/09 02:59 PM.
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Re: Distributor wires-pos/neg
[Re: FrankenScamp]
#370906
07/09/09 04:24 PM
07/09/09 04:24 PM
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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Quote:
call 'em...they've helped me. good luck!
I think that's what I'm gonna have to do. the problem I'm running into is the wire diagram that MSD provides, shows a black and orange wire from the factory distributor. the buchillion pictured above shows black and red. the distributor that I have is black and grey. it's probably a safe bet that in this case, black = black, and orange/red = grey...but then again... 
another similar question, since I'm new to MSD ignitions...where do I put the magical "rev limiter chip"? I don't see anywhere to plug one in, and no where in the diagrams or literature does it say how or where to install the rev limiter chip.
not that I absolutely need one, but might as well put one in for insurance. my dyno graph shows that I have no reason to spin this motor faster than 6200 rpm so I might as well toss in a 6200 chip incase I miss a shift or get stupid with it.
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Re: Distributor wires-pos/neg
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#370910
07/09/09 05:13 PM
07/09/09 05:13 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
So, here are my options!
MSD wires soldered to plug from orange box plugged into stock distributor
Green soldered to Grey w/Black tracer plugs into Black
Purple soldered to Brown w/ white tracer plugs into Grey
OR
Purple soldered to Grey w/Black tracer plugs into Black
Green solderd to Brown w/ white tracer plugs into Grey
Like I said, it probably will trigger either way, but will probably affect rotor phasing. All I know to suggest is try it and check it, or call MSD You'd think for the money they charge, they'd specify which.
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Re: Distributor wires-pos/neg
#370911
07/09/09 05:23 PM
07/09/09 05:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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Quote:
Quote:
So, here are my options!
MSD wires soldered to plug from orange box plugged into stock distributor
Green soldered to Grey w/Black tracer plugs into Black
Purple soldered to Brown w/ white tracer plugs into Grey
OR
Purple soldered to Grey w/Black tracer plugs into Black
Green solderd to Brown w/ white tracer plugs into Grey
Like I said, it probably will trigger either way, but will probably affect rotor phasing. All I know to suggest is try it and check it, or call MSD You'd think for the money they charge, they'd specify which.
I plan on it when I have the opportunity during business hours, and I can look at some things again...looking at a diagram online, it looks like the female side of the plug on the distributor is the negative...the MSD diagram is actually quite helpful, except my distributor wires are black and grey, not black and orange like MSD shows. I assumed the black on my distributor is still the negative and I have a grey for positive instead of red...I just wanted to verify first from someone who might have "been there, done that"
then the comment about the female/male side of the plugs triggered the idea to look at the diagram again, looks as if the female plug on the distributor IS the negative, as this diagram indicates...but, I don't have my distributor infront of me to verify that MY black wire also goes to the female side of the distributor plug.
once I look at it all again and verify a few things, I'll give MSD a call.
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Re: Distributor wires-pos/neg
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#370912
07/09/09 08:24 PM
07/09/09 08:24 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I went to their site but was unsure of what diagram to follow. For the moment, I"d assume that drawing to be your answer.
As I said earlier, though, you did not need to cut the connector off your old system--you can buy those cheap (they are in the same series as the inexpensive 4 wire trailer connectors)
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Re: Distributor wires-pos/neg
#370913
07/09/09 08:48 PM
07/09/09 08:48 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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Quote:
I went to their site but was unsure of what diagram to follow. For the moment, I"d assume that drawing to be your answer.
As I said earlier, though, you did not need to cut the connector off your old system--you can buy those cheap (they are in the same series as the inexpensive 4 wire trailer connectors)
yes I know it's a common plug, but this was an extra system, and it was free
this is all on the Dakota, the harnesses that were on the Cuda are nothing more than parts donors now, becuase of how old and butchered it was. when it's ready, it'll get all new wires 
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Re: Distributor wires-pos/neg
[Re: Jeremiah]
#370915
07/13/09 12:36 PM
07/13/09 12:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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the black wire from the distributor with the female side of the plug is the negative! I hooked it up, started the engine, and it fired right up. I was pleasantly surprised, because I don't have an RPM chip in the MSD6AL and didn't know if it needed one just to run, and I wasn't positive that I had the distributor wires hooked up correctly. so, either the black wire IS the negative, or, it doesn't matter how it's wired up, because it's running fine as-is.
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Another pict from bouchillon performance
On this 6AL the white plug in is the chip
6AL without the spot on the bottom
