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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: CurYellowBird] #365517
07/05/09 04:06 PM
07/05/09 04:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here
CrAzYMoPaRGuY  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
I built a few Chevies when I was young... but even while I built them I was always looking at the MoPars.
I guess you can't supress what you like!


From my silly years... I musta built and rebuilt 1969 Chevelles so many times I could do it in my sleep...

5334737-oldcars002.jpg (153 downloads)

CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #365518
07/05/09 04:13 PM
07/05/09 04:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird Offline OP
mopar
CurYellowBird  Offline OP
mopar

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Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
my 71' roadrunner has always been my dream mopar to own since I realized there was no way I was getting a superbird lol. I've got the car I want and I'm only 18 so it works out.


Project War Bird: 1971 Plymouth Roadrunner 383 4 speed with air conditioning GY3 Curious yellow All original
Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #365519
07/05/09 04:15 PM
07/05/09 04:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 565
IA
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landon1 Offline
mopar
landon1  Offline
mopar
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Posts: 565
IA
never done anything but mopar (satellite, D100)...other than my modern rides, which were fords...started when i was 15...22 now


'71 Satellite Sebring 440
Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: landon1] #365520
07/05/09 04:20 PM
07/05/09 04:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird Offline OP
mopar
CurYellowBird  Offline OP
mopar

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Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
Fords aren't allowed in this family. All the relatives and friends told me if I ever came up the driveway in a ford I'd be shot at without remorse lol.


Project War Bird: 1971 Plymouth Roadrunner 383 4 speed with air conditioning GY3 Curious yellow All original
Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: CurYellowBird] #365521
07/05/09 05:04 PM
07/05/09 05:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 565
IA
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landon1 Offline
mopar
landon1  Offline
mopar
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 565
IA
lol...they're the most reliable vehicles i've had (other than the plymouth - old, but you just can't kill it). i did have 2 GMs - a buick and a pontiac, several friends drive GMs - i really don't like em


'71 Satellite Sebring 440
Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: CurYellowBird] #365522
07/05/09 06:00 PM
07/05/09 06:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,935
WI
Dcuda69 Offline
master
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Quote:

So does anyone use the MP cam now? And how many of you guys actually used one of these cams in the past, minus those who provided a direct experience (Thanks again). I want opinions from people who have actually used the MP cam, not people who have never used it telling me that its a 30 year old design. Another thing is that not every guy who owns a mopar built their motor perfectly. It's easy for someone to put in the wrong pistons, intake, carb, etc. and blame it on the camshaft.

And if the MP products are so bad, then why are they still manufacturing and selling them? There must be consumers out there who think their products are worth it.

Somebody please tell me a simple issue of why the MP cams are so bad. Is it too much overlap, lift, duration, or was the mopar world tired of MP cams and decided to just go and try other things?




I had the 484(108lsa) in a low squeeze 383,4spd,3:23 A-body. Idle sounded wicked,but drivability sucked! Driving thru a parking lot with long gears and a big cam is a real treat.
It's not so much that MP cams suck(though there are QC issues and yes I know plenty of guys that "lost" lobes)just there are MUCH better designs out there now!Why not take advantage of 30 yrs of design improvements?I've got a solid roller now that idles better and pulls harder than that old MP design!Do the research...the cam companies have!

Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: Dcuda69] #365523
07/05/09 06:39 PM
07/05/09 06:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,948
British Columbia
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chrisf Offline
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British Columbia
i am about to swap motors in my shortbox. it currently has a 383 that is a mis-match of parts. 9-1 stealth heads, rpm intake, 750 vac, 17/8" headers 3.21 rear,stock converter it has a summit (around 484 cam) this thing is a dog until about 3g then it turns on.

new engine is a 10-1 383, 60302 voodoo cam, same heads intake and gears with a slightly looser converter.

i would say this engine should be a huge difference over the old combo. cam is just too big to match all the other mods. poorly chosen parts and i knew it.

MP cams are old school. go modern.

Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: chrisf] #365524
07/05/09 09:01 PM
07/05/09 09:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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moper Offline
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Columbia, CT
Your 18, and taking a rather inflexible position here... I've been doing this for 22 years, and havent used an MP cam in 8 years. You quote a book printed in the 80s, and partially financed by MP. Try bringing your build into the internet age and use a cam that takes advantage of things those books' authors never fully researched. You've gotten a bunch if good info here. It's your choice to use it or not. I can tell you, 98% of cam failures are a result of builder or first start errors. Not a brand name. Read something written in the last 4 years and good luck to you. It's cool that you're a young gun who's goig against the grain of your peers. Which is why I find it funny you choose to rely on yourself and not the guys that did it before.


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: moper] #365525
07/05/09 09:24 PM
07/05/09 09:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird Offline OP
mopar
CurYellowBird  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
I've been going off information from both books and the internet. The research I've been putting into various cam types has been going on since I got the car last feb-march. I'm always told there's two sides to every story. On one side there is guys standing by the new cams being produced while on the other side are the old crusty mopar guys that stand by the MP cams.

The one common ground I've gotten out of this topic and from both sides of the arguement is that the .509 lift grind from both MP and I believe Comp is a really good cam for this set up. I'm just worried that it could be too much and take away from the drivability of the car.

It's hard to be flexible in a way cause this is a one shot deal. It sucks to have to go back and tear the whole engine apart to replace a cam. I've already figured that out on my malibu when I used an Iskey cam that had waaaay too much duration. So I stepped it down to a summit .442/.460 lift cam that works great as a daily driver.

Last edited by DarkRunner; 07/05/09 09:28 PM.

Project War Bird: 1971 Plymouth Roadrunner 383 4 speed with air conditioning GY3 Curious yellow All original
Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: CurYellowBird] #365526
07/05/09 09:54 PM
07/05/09 09:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here
CrAzYMoPaRGuY  Offline
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Posts: 16,452
Canada
Quote:

On one side there is guys standing by the new cams being produced while on the other side are the old crusty mopar guys that stand by the MP cams.






Not entirely true!
I float somewhere in the middle of those two crowds....


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: CurYellowBird] #365527
07/05/09 10:12 PM
07/05/09 10:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Kirkland, Washington
Dark,
You're agonizing over this I can tell. One aspect not discussed much on this thread yet is the placement of the powerband. Duration and overlap determine that.
In a 4 speed STREET car, especially with 3.23s, if you go with higher duration cams (say over 272 or 280) you will find your self slipping the clutch a lot to get the car moving. During spirited launches thats OK, cuz you'll let the clutch out faster and with more throttle. BUT (big BUT here), you don't always drive a street car that way. We're talking about when the powerband STARTS. In my 440/Lunati 60303 (which is a 268/272 duration), installed at 106-107 degrees, the powerband comes on at 2000, anything less than that (except very light throttle) will bog. I cam live with that. A .509 cam (which is what, 292 degrees?) won't have a powerband below 2500, maybe even 2800! On the street that gets old. Again, your 3.23's come into play too. If you had 3.91's well that changes things.
Modern Cam grinds (hearing that a lot aren't ya?)are able to produce good lift WITH LESS DURATION, which means they make good power, at a lower RPM. That improves driveability greatly--STREET car.
Now nothing comes without a price, and camshafts are one of life's big compromises, a smaller duration cams powerband will fall off sooner, but I guarrantee you will spend a LOT more time enjoying the power at 2000-2500 than you will at 6500. Don't get me wrong, the 383 winds up great, but again street car.
The old school cams only method of getting high valve lift was to go to high duration, today you have other options.
My 60303 is .494/.513 @ 268.272. If you look at the lifts in the old MP offerings at those durations you will seen numbers in the .460's--big difference.
And we haven't even touched on asymetrical lobes and dual pattern grinds!

Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #365528
07/05/09 10:16 PM
07/05/09 10:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
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Quote:


And we haven't even touched on asymetrical lobes and dual pattern grinds!




I think the lack of ZINC should be mentioned too!!!!!


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #365529
07/05/09 10:20 PM
07/05/09 10:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Quote:

Quote:


And we haven't even touched on asymetrical lobes and dual pattern grinds!




I think the lack of ZINC should be mentioned too!!!!!




Think he's ready for the roller cam consideration???

Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #365530
07/05/09 10:33 PM
07/05/09 10:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,935
WI
Dcuda69 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


And we haven't even touched on asymetrical lobes and dual pattern grinds!




I think the lack of ZINC should be mentioned too!!!!!




Think he's ready for the roller cam consideration???




NO!!

Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #365531
07/05/09 10:44 PM
07/05/09 10:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,874
Pittsburgh,PA
RTSrunner Offline
top fuel
RTSrunner  Offline
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Posts: 1,874
Pittsburgh,PA
I've used the 484 cam in a '69 440 GTX that was otherwise rebuilt to stock specs.It had AC,was an automatic with a bit of added stall to the converter,HP exh.manifolds,stock intake and AVS carb and was ran with both 3.23 and 4.10 gears.It works ok with the AC,although it idles a bit rough.The car has ran 13.98 street tires and through the mufflers.I think a 3.55 or 3.91 gear would have been better.I built a 383 for my '69 runner back in the day using an MP .474 lift cam,actually back then it was a .471/.474 lift cam!The 383 had cast low CR pistons,ported and shaved 906 heads,big tube headers and a six pack intake/carbs.It was a 4-speed and had a Dana 60 with 4.56 gears.This car was fun!It would require a shift to second gear before you were through an intersection when leaving a light under full throttle.The six-pack would let it rev to 7000+ rpm if you didn't shift asap,and would rev in high gear too on the banzai run!When I sold the car.they swapped in 3.54 gears and it ran well with that too,though I did not drive it personally.The .474 cam may be an option for you.I owned my roadrunner when I was 18,I'm 43 now, and it's still my favorite of all the cars I have owned,and there have been many!Have fun with your 'runner!
RT

Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: RTSrunner] #365532
07/05/09 11:17 PM
07/05/09 11:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn Offline
pro stock
CompSyn  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
FWIW, Bob Karakashian offered up his 69 ½ A-12 Super Bee to Chrysler Engineers back in the day to test the new at that time Direct Connection camshafts, known today as MP Purple Shaft cams. Bob got hooked up on that deal through his good friend Tom Hoover (AKA Father of the Hemi). And Bob’s actually pictured in one of the early Direct Connection catalogs. This is all there in Bob’s bio, you can read up on it at the website I provided above.

Today Bob uses his custom grind because it’s allowed in the class he races in, Pure Stock Muscle Car Drags, and because it works very well. When I spoke with Bob on the phone, he told me he’s helped people swap out their MP 284 and 509 cams for his cam which resulted in crisper performance.

Sorry but I too fell into the mantra as a young man with respect to everybody I knew was using a MP cam and thought that if Chrysler Engineers designed them and they're still around after all these years, then they must be awesome cams. I ran a MP 484 cam in a 440 and was never really fully satisfied with its performance.

Seriously, call Bob. He’s a nice guy and loves to talk Mopars. He’s really not in the cam business per say, but if someone requests one of his cam grinds, has glad to oblige.

Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: CurYellowBird] #365533
07/06/09 12:26 AM
07/06/09 12:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,435
So Cal
Sinitro Offline
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So Cal
Quote:

If you read everything else I posted its not a stock rebuilt 383. The only thing thats gonna be stock is the block itself and the hi-po manifolds, thats it.

I already listed everything that won't be stock such as the stealth aluminum closed chamber heads, the performer rpm or M1 dual plane intake, the carter comp carb, raising the CR to 9.5:1, converting to a 3.55 gear. I dont know how in the world all of this is a stock rebuild for a 383. The only draw back to the whole set up is keeping the AC pump. Other than that I have manual brakes so vacuum doesn't mean a thing to me and a 4 speed which means no torque converter issues either.




The original 284 cam (2035) has low vacuum so if no power brakes you should be fine. However your mentioned Carter 750 carburator, I would recommend a Holley as the Carters/Edelbrock don't like low vacuum and are difficult to tame the idle. Has to do with their metering rods and pistons design.. Besides a Holley is just simpler and EZ to tune..

Just my $0.025..

Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: Sinitro] #365534
07/06/09 12:29 AM
07/06/09 12:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,452
Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
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CrAzYMoPaRGuY  Offline
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Canada
Quote:

Quote:

If you read everything else I posted its not a stock rebuilt 383. The only thing thats gonna be stock is the block itself and the hi-po manifolds, thats it.

I already listed everything that won't be stock such as the stealth aluminum closed chamber heads, the performer rpm or M1 dual plane intake, the carter comp carb, raising the CR to 9.5:1, converting to a 3.55 gear. I dont know how in the world all of this is a stock rebuild for a 383. The only draw back to the whole set up is keeping the AC pump. Other than that I have manual brakes so vacuum doesn't mean a thing to me and a 4 speed which means no torque converter issues either.




The original 284 cam (2035) has low vacuum so if no power brakes you should be fine. However your mentioned Carter 750 carburator, I would recommend a Holley as the Carters/Edelbrock don't like low vacuum and are difficult to tame the idle. Has to do with their metering rods and pistons design.. Besides a Holley is just simpler and EZ to tune..

Just my $0.025..




The original 284 duration 484 MP cam was part# 4120235, it had vacuum depending on the application.
My Demon was a 484 cam, it had a tunnel ram and a small pot power brake reservoir, I had no problems whatsoever. TONS of vacuum for the brakes....



CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: CompSyn] #365535
07/06/09 12:36 AM
07/06/09 12:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861
Riverside, Ca
R70RUNNER Offline
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R70RUNNER  Offline
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Riverside, Ca
Quote:

From what I understand, when running factory exhaust manifolds, you’re better off with a 112-to-114 centerline.

Also, as already mentioned in this thread, go with a custom cam for your application.

In my 383, I’m going with a Mr. SixPack custom grind from Engle Racing Cams which is designed by Bob Karakashian. The cost is a bit more than an off the shelf cam but worth it. $235.00 to your doorstep and that dose not include lifters.

But that cam has bone stock 440-6s running in the high 11s on factory polyglass tires. You might be able to get the ETs you’re after with you're 383.

You can give Mr. Karakashian a call and he’ll talk it over with you.



Mr.6Pack Racing Engines - link




Been running Bob's Mr. Sixpack cam for 3years now... I pulled an MP .484 out of my 9.6:1 383... I run 3.23's (currently) and manifolds, FWIW, I wouldn't run that MP cam in anything less then a 440 in a B-body too much weight

Very happy with the Engle/Bob K piece


Current cars: 2000 Dak Quad Cab, 2012 Challenger,1970 Road Runner, 1994 Firehawk


1966 Coronet post sedan, 1988 Corvette, 2005 Magnum RT all SOLD

R70RUNNER<---VP Inland Empire Chapter of the MPM
Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz) [Re: R70RUNNER] #365536
07/06/09 01:08 AM
07/06/09 01:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird Offline OP
mopar
CurYellowBird  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
Concerning vacuum, my car had manual all drum brakes from the factory (luckily was given power steering) but I do plan on converting to manual disc brakes for reliabile stopping.

Quote:

...FWIW, I wouldn't run that MP cam in anything less then a 440 in a B-body too much weight





I'm confused, what are you saying? Are you saying its not worth it to run a 383 in a b body or are you saying that cam is too much for a 383? Please clarify cause I got lost with that.


Project War Bird: 1971 Plymouth Roadrunner 383 4 speed with air conditioning GY3 Curious yellow All original
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