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Re: WATCH "THE AMERICAN MUSCLE CAR TONIGHT"@9:30PM
#36185
11/16/07 06:59 PM
11/16/07 06:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,443
Northern N.J.
hemi_doug
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Northern N.J.
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I won't dispute your points on 820 HP from a stock Hemi, but be careful about your claims of only 315 net. It is well known that Hemis respond very well to proper tuning and the reverse is true for an engine out of tune. Well tuned street Hemis were in the sub 12 range stock out of the box. Just because you have "data" that states low 13s and 315 net HP doesn't mean that was all they were capable of out of the box. My stock hemi was turning 360 HP net on a chassis dyno and I was still chasing a vacuum leak as well as total advance at the time (not to mention fowled plugs at the time). I’m sure it was close to 375-390 net by the time I got it dialed in. Stock everything! So a lot depends on the car/driver/tune/suspension/tire ect…..
Oh and PS....ad another 25 or so HP on top of those totals for the Gear Vendors OD on the car....
71 440-6 4spd & 69 Hemi 4spd
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Re: WATCH "THE AMERICAN MUSCLE CAR TONIGHT"@9:30PM
[Re: hemi_doug]
#36186
11/16/07 07:46 PM
11/16/07 07:46 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Just because you have "data" that states low 13s and 315 net HP doesn't mean that was all they were capable of out of the box.
I have perhaps 20 vintage 426 hemi tests in my possession. Some featured professional drivers (e.g. Ronnie Sox) driving, shall we say, "very carefully prepared" press cars. Not a single one dipped into the twelves and some had slicks and serious gears (e.g. 4.56s).
I never said "315 net HP." I said 315 REAR WHEEL HP and 350 SAE NET (measured at the flywheel) HP.
Quote:
My stock hemi was turning 360 HP net on a chassis dyno and I was still chasing a vacuum leak as well as total advance at the time (not to mention fowled plugs at the time). I’m sure it was close to 375-390 net by the time I got it dialed in. Stock everything!
What do you mean by "stock everything?" 37 model years have passed since the very last 426 street hemi rolled off the assembly line. How could any car that was built between 1966 and 1971 that is dynoed/raced in the 21st centry possibly be "stock everything?"
My definition of STOCK is when everything is EXACTLY as it was when built (35 - 40 years ago - way back when Johnson and Nixon were the Presidents).
Milled heads, decked blocks, over-bores, different cams (regardless of specs, since specs don't fully define lobe profiles), 3 angle valve jobs, lightweight, aftermarket internals, etc. don't meet my definition of stock.
Even something as "trivial" as a .030" overbore is significant because it un-shrouds the valves and raises the compression ratio, each of which increases output.
A modern, mandrel bent exhaust system fitted with modern, high flow mufflers (e.g. Flowmasters) technically isn't stock either, although I'll let that go as long as it is specified.
Let me show you an example of my definition of stock, just so we're on the same page.:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1763828
I'll bet the "totally stock" examples will be making 500 HP at the wheels 40 years from now. 
Last edited by harddrivin1le; 11/16/07 08:28 PM.
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Re: WATCH "THE AMERICAN MUSCLE CAR TONIGHT"@9:30PM
#36187
11/16/07 08:13 PM
11/16/07 08:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
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Rock Springs
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Quote:
Quote:
My stock hemi was turning 360 HP net on a chassis dyno and I was still chasing a vacuum leak as well as total advance at the time (not to mention fowled plugs at the time). I’m sure it was close to 375-390 net by the time I got it dialed in. Stock everything!
What do you mean by stock?
My definition of STOCK is when everything is EXACTLY as it was when built (35 - 40 years ago).
That's exceedingly unlikely.
Milled heads, decked blocks, over-bores, different cams (regardless of specs, since they don't fully define lobe profiles), 3 angle valve jobs, lightweight, aftermarket internals, etc. don't meet my definition of stock.
Even something as "trivial" as a .030" overbore is significant because it un-shrouds the valves and raises the compression ratio, each of which increases output.
A modern, mandrel bent exhaust system fitted with modern, high flow mufflers technically isn't stock either, though I'll let that go as long as it is specified.
Let me show you an example of my definition of stock, just so we're on the same page.:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1763828
I'll bet the "totally stock" examples will be making 500 HP at the wheels 40 years from now.
So what is your point? You must have a brand X engine, and seem a bit jealous. Your not suggesting the contest was bias? Fact is in tuned form the hemi is the ultimate engine package, what is argue about that. The show clearly pointed this out... 
Its entertainment 
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Re: WATCH "THE AMERICAN MUSCLE CAR TONIGHT"@9:30PM
[Re: Bob_Coomer]
#36188
11/16/07 08:19 PM
11/16/07 08:19 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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My MAIN point is that the "stock 426 hemi" that made 820 HP on that TV show was actually a highly modified stroker engine that was packed full of modern, performance enhancing parts.
That means the TV show MISLED its viewers and it propagating myths that have no basis in fact.
I am asking that the guy who built the engine and initiated this post come clean about the engine's specifics so that we can ALL learn the truth.
Last edited by harddrivin1le; 11/16/07 08:22 PM.
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Re: WATCH "THE AMERICAN MUSCLE CAR TONIGHT"@9:30PM
[Re: goldmember]
#36190
11/16/07 08:42 PM
11/16/07 08:42 PM
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Anonymous
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I have an '07 Acura TL Type S that can run low 14s @ 100+ MPH (from a 3.5 liter V6 that pulling 3,600 pounds worth of car).
It's a decent daily driver and would have been considered a fast car by 1960's standards. (It isn't a fast car by modern standards, though.)
My last car was an LS1/1LE/6 speed Camaro fitted with headers, cat-back, cold air package, B&M "Ripper" shifter, etc. It was likely a high 12 second car, though my thing is the open road and I never bother to drag it.
None of that is relevant, though.
I want to know the specifics on the "stock 426 hemi" that made 820 HP: Bore, stroke, head work, valve size, cam specs (must be outrageous), details on the cranks, rods, pistons...all of it.
Last edited by harddrivin1le; 11/16/07 08:46 PM.
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Re: WATCH "THE AMERICAN MUSCLE CAR TONIGHT"@9:30PM
#36191
11/16/07 08:46 PM
11/16/07 08:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
I have an '07 Acura TL Type S that can run low 14s @ 100+ MPH (from a 3.5 liter V6 that pulling 3,600 pounds worth of car).
It's a decent daily driver and would have been considered a fast car by 1960's standards. (It isn't a fast car by modern standards, though.)
My last car was an LS1/1LE/6 speed Camaro fitted with headers, cat-back, cold air package, B&M "Ripper" shifter, etc.
It was likely a high 12 second car, though my thing is the open road and I never bother to drag it.
None of this is relevant, though.
I want to know the specifics on the "stock 426 hemi" that made 820 HP: Bore, stroke, head work, valve size, cam specs (must be outrageous), details on the cranks, rods, pistons...all of it.
vrooooooom vroooooom 
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Re: WATCH "THE AMERICAN MUSCLE CAR TONIGHT"@9:30PM
#36192
11/16/07 08:48 PM
11/16/07 08:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
I want to know the specifics on the "stock 426 hemi" that made 820 HP: Bore, stroke, head work, valve size, cam specs (must be outrageous), details on the cranks, rods, pistons...all of it.
thats top secret  only true mopar people have a right to that info
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Re: WATCH "THE AMERICAN MUSCLE CAR TONIGHT"@9:30PM
[Re: Quicktree]
#36193
11/16/07 08:49 PM
11/16/07 08:49 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I heard the Hemi was stock and it was the other 2 engines that were highly modified.
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Re: WATCH "THE AMERICAN MUSCLE CAR TONIGHT"@9:30PM
[Re: Quicktree]
#36194
11/16/07 08:50 PM
11/16/07 08:50 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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http://s218.photobucket.com/albums/cc136...THEMIvs4401.jpg My V6 Acura would have been more than enough to put away that TRULY "stock" 440. And the hemi needed super-tuning and slicks in order to truly beat the Acura. That's back when those cars were brand new and not modified in any manner. Isn't it funny how they just keep getting faster as time marches on?  We call that PROGRESS. But again, this is off topic. I want to know THE TRUTH about the hemi engine in question.
Last edited by harddrivin1le; 11/16/07 08:52 PM.
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Re: WATCH "THE AMERICAN MUSCLE CAR TONIGHT"@9:30PM
[Re: goldmember]
#36197
11/16/07 08:54 PM
11/16/07 08:54 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Why don't you PM DTHemi and see if he will tell you??
I already have.
I want him to reveal the full truth on the main board, though.
And ideally, I would like the TV show to apologize to its viewers for misleading them.
The 426 Hemi is a fine engine for what it is. All I want is THE TRUTH.
Last edited by harddrivin1le; 11/16/07 08:56 PM.
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Re: WATCH "THE AMERICAN MUSCLE CAR TONIGHT"@9:30PM
[Re: Quicktree]
#36198
11/16/07 08:56 PM
11/16/07 08:56 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Quote:
thats top secret only true mopar people have a right to that info
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Re: WATCH "THE AMERICAN MUSCLE CAR TONIGHT"@9:30PM
#36200
11/16/07 09:00 PM
11/16/07 09:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,443
Northern N.J.
hemi_doug
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,443
Northern N.J.
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Dude...it was all stock. No trick anything.... down to standard bore, heads, rods, pistons, crank, manifolds, cam and date code correct carbs. Now head over to one of the GM boards and hangout with the rest of the loosers....
71 440-6 4spd & 69 Hemi 4spd
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man!!