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440 six pack - running hot - why #356068
06/23/09 09:16 PM
06/23/09 09:16 PM
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Williamsport, PA
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Rob440Magnum Offline OP
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My buddy has a 70 Challenger with a 440 six pack and I have a 70 Challenger with a 440 4 bbl. We both had our motors rebuilt and dynoed by the same shop nearly the same time. We have both put on about 1,000 miles on each of our cars and from day one his motor's temp is much hotter than mine. I can hardly hold my hand on the wrench long enough to loosen the bolt to adjust his timing.

I have the heat crossovers blocked off at the valley pan because I have an electronic choke, his are not blocked off because of the choke on the six pack. We both do not have a heat riser.

He has a new 3 core radiator and I have a new 4 core radiator. When I point the temp gun at my radiator versus his radiator they both are very close to the same temp, but his motor is much hotter. We both have 180 or 185 degree thermostat (can't remember which one for sure).

Any ideas?

Thanks, Rob

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356069
06/23/09 09:32 PM
06/23/09 09:32 PM
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Cincinnati, Ohio
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More details needed, shrouds? clutch fans?

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Challenger 1] #356070
06/23/09 10:35 PM
06/23/09 10:35 PM
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Williamsport, PA
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Rob440Magnum Offline OP
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Quote:

More details needed, shrouds? clutch fans?




new reproduction 26" fan shrouds on both cars. Both cars 26" radiators. Clutch fans on both cars however the six pack has a new Mopar Perf. clutch fan which if I remember correctly is a 5 blade fan and I have the origianl 7 blade clutch fan on my car.

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356071
06/23/09 10:43 PM
06/23/09 10:43 PM
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Michigan
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What waterpump's?

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356072
06/23/09 10:45 PM
06/23/09 10:45 PM
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Chino Valley
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either he is developing much more heat (lean, bigger bore, clogged cooling passages), or he isn't shedding as much heat (WP, fan, radiator, shroud).
Take the temp readings in as many places as possible and compare. Lower radiator hose, WP, Heater hoses, etc.

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: MNobody] #356073
06/23/09 10:50 PM
06/23/09 10:50 PM
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Williamsport, PA
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Rob440Magnum Offline OP
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Quote:

What waterpump's?




not 100% sure, but I think we have the same ones new from Mancini Racing. Can't remember what model # or specifics. What information about the water pump would you want to know?

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356074
06/23/09 10:54 PM
06/23/09 10:54 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline
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what do his/yours plugs look like & he might pull his stat for 1 day. EDIT forgot about timing(his vs yours)MORE EDIT he might block his intake(like yours) & see if that equalizes things & if so then decide how he wants to get the choke to open properly(I'm betting on this last one)

Last edited by RapidRobert; 06/23/09 10:59 PM.

live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: RodStRace] #356075
06/23/09 10:55 PM
06/23/09 10:55 PM
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Williamsport, PA
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Rob440Magnum Offline OP
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Quote:

bigger bore




Could you please elaborate on this one?

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: RapidRobert] #356076
06/23/09 10:59 PM
06/23/09 10:59 PM
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Williamsport, PA
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Quote:

what do his/yours plugs look like & he might pull his stat for 1 day. EDIT forgot about timing(his vs yours)




My timing is 13 degrees initial and the six pack is 15 degrees initial timing. We cannot go any higher or they ping on 93 pump gas.

Plugs are fine.

What are you recommending we try with the thermostat?

Last edited by Rob440Magnum; 06/23/09 11:00 PM.
Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356077
06/23/09 11:00 PM
06/23/09 11:00 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

What are you recommending we try with the thermostat?


take it out for (1) day


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356078
06/23/09 11:03 PM
06/23/09 11:03 PM
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Williamsport, PA
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Rob440Magnum Offline OP
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Quote:

he might block his intake(like yours) & see if that equalizes things & if so then decide how he wants to get the choke to open properly(I'm betting on this last one)





Any other six packs out there with no heat riser, stock choke hooked up, and the heat crossovers on the valley pan open with their motors running hot?

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356079
06/23/09 11:21 PM
06/23/09 11:21 PM
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Michigan
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Quote:

Quote:

What waterpump's?




not 100% sure, but I think we have the same ones new from Mancini Racing. Can't remember what model # or specifics. What information about the water pump would you want to know?





Some pumps have more fins on the impeller to move more water, i believe AC cars have 7 versus 5 on the non AC cars.

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: MNobody] #356080
06/23/09 11:53 PM
06/23/09 11:53 PM
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Lots of stuff has been covered here.

First, what are the actual temps you are seeing? What gauges are being used?

Was his engine bored over more than yours?

I don't think the heat riser will make the diffeence you are looking for on his car. I don't think the choke will work a whole lot different blocked, mine is and the intake gets plenty hot once the car warms up. He could just wire it open and live with the poor cold running temper, it doesn't tae that long to warm up anyway.

Is his fan belt tight? Might just be a new belt that was put on at the rebuild time that has loosened up.


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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356081
06/24/09 12:00 AM
06/24/09 12:00 AM
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Canada
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It could be anything, tune stands out to me, as well as various cooling parts, but since nobody has touched on it yet...

Has anybody thrown a block in a hot tank and actually CHECKED for silt etc at the bottom of the block?
I have and have found some blocks packed with hardened debris. I used all sorts of tools to dig it out through the frost plug holes, I was amazed at what was left in some...

If all else fails it *might* be worth checking as a very last resort..? I have a feeling timing and carbs might be the first area to look at though...


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY] #356082
06/24/09 06:44 AM
06/24/09 06:44 AM
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Williamsport, PA
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Rob440Magnum Offline OP
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Quote:

Was his engine bored over more than yours?





both bored the same 30 over


Quote:

I don't think the heat riser will make the diffeence you are looking for on his car. I don't think the choke will work a whole lot different blocked, mine is and the intake gets plenty hot once the car warms up. He could just wire it open and live with the poor cold running temper, it doesn't tae that long to warm up anyway.





Do you have a six pack? With your crossovers blocked does your choke still function properly?

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356083
06/24/09 07:17 AM
06/24/09 07:17 AM
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Brookeville, Md
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I blocked my heat risers off and my choke seems to function ok. I wasn't even going to use it but hooked it up for a test and it seems to work ok. I was suprised when I could touch the heads, intake and rad after letting it run for 20-25 minutes and various idles while I set the timing and vacuum. I have a 2 core 26" aluminum rad w/ a 160* thermostat. I was worried my gauge wasn't work because it was only on 160 after 20 or so minutes so I put my hand right on the intake, then block.
Ok so what thermostat is he running? what are his actual temps? all things being equal he might be a tad lean. Your 4bbl probably uses/flows more gas then his center carb. I bumped my centers up to 64.

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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: MNobody] #356084
06/24/09 09:19 AM
06/24/09 09:19 AM
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Blair County,PA
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

What waterpump's?




not 100% sure, but I think we have the same ones new from Mancini Racing. Can't remember what model # or specifics. What information about the water pump would you want to know?





Some pumps have more fins on the impeller to move more water, i believe AC cars have 7 versus 5 on the non AC cars.





Standard pump has 8 blades,A/C has 6,keeps water in radiator longer with slower circulation.

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356085
06/24/09 09:20 AM
06/24/09 09:20 AM
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U.S.S.A.
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Quote:

Quote:

what do his/yours plugs look like & he might pull his stat for 1 day. EDIT forgot about timing(his vs yours)




My timing is 13 degrees initial and the six pack is 15 degrees initial timing. We cannot go any higher or they ping on 93 pump gas.

Plugs are fine.

What are you recommending we try with the thermostat?




What is his and your TOTAL timing ? I ASSuME the shop that dynoed the engines recurved the dizzy's as needed ?

If the water temps are very close then it's not really running hot . because his crossover is open the intake is hotter on his engine vs. yours , plus the 6pack air cleaner is alot bigger than yours and will trap the heat coming off the engine.

Did you adjust the timing from what the dyno sessions were set at ? if so which way ?

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: JohnRR] #356086
06/24/09 09:28 AM
06/24/09 09:28 AM
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Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

what do his/yours plugs look like & he might pull his stat for 1 day. EDIT forgot about timing(his vs yours)




My timing is 13 degrees initial and the six pack is 15 degrees initial timing. We cannot go any higher or they ping on 93 pump gas.

Plugs are fine.



What are you recommending we try with the thermostat?




What is his and your TOTAL timing ? I ASSuME the shop that dynoed the engines recurved the dizzy's as needed ?

If the water temps are very close then it's not really running hot . because his crossover is open the intake is hotter on his engine vs. yours , plus the 6pack air cleaner is alot bigger than yours and will trap the heat coming off the engine.

Did you adjust the timing from what the dyno sessions were set at ? if so which way ?



Yes he mentioned any more than 15 degrees initial it will ping, sounds like the dist is not setup right.

I run 18 initial and 34 total and my 440 six pak which runs great and stays cool even on 90 degree days with the AC cranking. I drove it for about a hour last Sun(90 degree day) and then pulled in the driveway and let it idle for another 15 mins and the temp stayed rock steady. BTW all stock cooling system.

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Challenger 1] #356087
06/24/09 09:39 AM
06/24/09 09:39 AM
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U.S.S.A.
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Another question , is your friends car overheating when he drives it ???

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