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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356128
07/21/09 07:54 AM
07/21/09 07:54 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

You might however want to consider a 160 degree thermosat, just to keep the engine as cool as possible as quickly as possible.





If we put the 160 t-stat in, the motor will not heat up anymore than about 160 degrees correct?

I've heard you lose power if the motor runs too cool and that it may not be good for the motor long-term if it does not run hot enough. This is a street car not a drag car.

Any follow-up comments on my reply?

Thanks, Rob




if you put a 160 in, the thermostat will open and try and maintain a 160 degree temp. but, if your cooling system is weak or your car is way too hot so the cooling sys cant keep up, it wont stay at 160.

imo, 160 is way too cool. 180 is the min for me. you said it ran cooler without a thermo. the 180 may have been bad. I'd try another one

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: bogusracer] #356129
07/21/09 08:50 AM
07/21/09 08:50 AM
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I would highly suggest a 180 and read the 160 vs 180 stat thread on this page which will put you in a better (informed) position to make your choice.


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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: RapidRobert] #356130
07/23/09 07:00 PM
07/23/09 07:00 PM
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Last night we drilled 1/8" hole in the new 180 stat and installed. When we started adding coolant we noticed crap floating around in the new radiator (less than 1,000 miles on new radiator). So we took off the lower radiator hose and drained the coolant and tried to flush the radiator with a hose. Refilled and took for a ride. The motor ran cooler than it did before we changed the stat but not as cool as when we ran with no stat.

We are going to do the following on Saturday:

1. remove stat again and put some miles on it to try to move any crap that may be in the block or cooling system and hope it ends up in the radiator. Then Sunday, remove radiator and take to a radiator shop and have it professionally flushed.
2. drive the car at a steady speed on the highway for 10-15 mins and compare the exhaust manifold temps to my 440 4 bbl to see if the six pack is running lean. What temp would you consider too hot for the exhaust manifolds that would lead you to beleive a lean center carb?
3. when we turn the car off, make sure the fan does not keep spinning more than 1 or 1 1/4 turns. If so, I am told the clutch is bad on the clutch fan. (any comments on this to confirm how to test)

What are your thoughts while the radiator is off to hook up a wet/dry shop vac to the bottom radiator hose coming out from the motor. Will this accomplish anything?

Any other thoughts or suggestions we should try while we are at it?

Thanks, Rob

Last edited by Rob440Magnum; 07/24/09 08:21 AM.
Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: DAYCLONA] #356131
07/24/09 08:29 AM
07/24/09 08:29 AM
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Anyone?

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356132
07/24/09 10:00 AM
07/24/09 10:00 AM
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Quote:

The motor ran cooler than it did before we changed the stat. What are your thoughts while the radiator is off to hook up a wet/dry shop vac


I would go ahead & have the rad flushed & I dont think the shop vac will help you. we're getting there EDIT I'd take off the front carb & bump up the center carb's jets 4 sizes for a test

Last edited by RapidRobert; 07/24/09 10:26 AM.

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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: RapidRobert] #356133
07/25/09 03:08 PM
07/25/09 03:08 PM
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Today we removed the stat. Looked in the radiator and there was an orange thing floating around. We were able to extract it and it was an orange rubberized or silicon glob about 1/4" by 1/4".

We ran the car without the stat. On the highway the factory temp gauge was dead center. (leads me to believe center carb not running lean).

In-town driving the factory temp gauge was at 3/4 and at idle the gauge climbed near the top of the safe zone.

It appears that the clutch fan is ok because it seem to stop rotating almost immediately after he turned the car off. Is there any other way to check this?

I could not get a temp reading of his exhaust manifolds because my temp gun stops at 550 degrees and they were hotter than that. The gun registered no temp reading.

We tried placing a piece of paper on the grille, hood closed at idle and it did hold the paper against the grille so it seems like the fan is pulling outside air thru the grille and thru the radiator.

There is a 1/8" to 1/4" gap between the radiator and the fan shroud. The aftermarket radiator just does not line up well with the fan shroud.

Why can't he just run the car without the t-stat?

Any thoughts or recommendations?

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356134
07/25/09 04:23 PM
07/25/09 04:23 PM
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Today we removed the stat. Looked in the radiator and there was an orange thing floating around. We were able to extract it and it was an orange rubberized or silicon glob about 1/4" by 1/4".


Hate to say it - But there could bee a 100 more of those plugged up inside your radiator core
Permatex copper silicone

First things first - Pull the radiator and bring it to your radiator shop or at least call them and see what they want to do

Original factory radiator ?
Has it ever been re-cored ? Professionally cleaned or boiled ?

Silicone in the radiator is not a good sign


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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356135
07/25/09 05:02 PM
07/25/09 05:02 PM
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Quote:

Looked in the radiator and there was an orange thing floating around. We ran the car without the stat. On the highway the factory temp gauge was dead center. In-town driving the factory temp gauge was at 3/4 and at idle the gauge climbed near the top of the safe zone.
Any thoughts or recommendations?


The primary jetting is OK. I would have the rad flushed(along w the rest of the system) to get that crap out of there. You do need a stat(at least 180) in there but I'd leave it out for a few days until you get this sorted out. Since the rad is good at speed I am thinking airflow plus you have a good Mancini pump in there. Can you sub in a fixed blade fan for a test and WHERE in the shroud is your fan located? I'm not sure if 1/8-14" gap on the shroud/rad is enough to make a (big)difference but you could duct tape the gaps for the idling in your driveway test but from you partly cleaning the rad & that made a difference I would do that 1st and get a Milodon hi flow 180 stat for when this gets resolved. We're almost there


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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: bee1971] #356136
07/25/09 05:53 PM
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Quote:

Hate to say it - But there could bee a 100 more of those plugged up inside your radiator core. Permatex copper silicone




How & where did that come from?

Quote:

factory radiator ?
Has it ever been re-cored ? Professionally cleaned or boiled ?




The radiator is a new YEARONE radiator installed when the car was restored and motor rebuilt. Less than 1,000 miles ago.

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356137
07/25/09 05:55 PM
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Quote:

I would have the rad flushed(along w the rest of the system) to get that crap out of there.




I know you pull the radiator and take it to a radiator shop, but how do you flush the rest of the system?

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356138
07/25/09 05:57 PM
07/25/09 05:57 PM
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Quote:

Can you sub in a fixed blade fan for a test and WHERE in the shroud is your fan located?




It's 1/2 in and 1/2 out of the shroud. I'll have to check to see if he has a fixed blade, I know I don't.

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356139
07/25/09 07:19 PM
07/25/09 07:19 PM
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Did you use a HIGH FLOW robertshaw type thermostat??? Milodon also sells this type of thermostat but my local NAPA did not sell them. Also use more water and less antifrese and the water wetter as mentioned by Dayclona, Try a Milodon or Edelbrock pump (440source sells them too) if you really want to run cool and check your cap for holding pressure.

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: THESHAKERPROJECT] #356140
07/25/09 07:40 PM
07/25/09 07:40 PM
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Rob440Magnum Offline OP
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Quote:

Did you use a HIGH FLOW robertshaw type thermostat??? Milodon also sells this type of thermostat but my local NAPA did not sell them. Also use more water and less antifrese and the water wetter as mentioned by Dayclona, Try a Milodon or Edelbrock pump (440source sells them too) if you really want to run cool and check your cap for holding pressure.




Bought a 180 stat from NAPA so I guess that is not a high-flow stat. Where do I buy a high-flow stat?

We put Prestone 50-50 mix in, no water added.

How do you check the cap for holding pressure?

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356141
07/25/09 07:48 PM
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I didnt realize the radiator was new - Sometimes you go with the flow , no pun intended , then going back to the original posts if you already mentioned

Anyways

How much silicone did you use on the water pump housing gaskets - How much silicone on the actual water pump itself and thermostat housing gasket

It would definetly take alot to break loose to plug up a brand new radiator so with that said
next


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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: bee1971] #356142
07/26/09 12:29 AM
07/26/09 12:29 AM
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Well this is a whole lot of work....but....Yours is not overheating...his is. Swap parts from yours to his. There is no better test than the last line on a diag flow chart...swap with a known good component.
Sorry
Curt


Oh yeah...THAT'S gonna leave a mark!
Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Curt] #356143
07/26/09 12:36 AM
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The fan does need to be farther in


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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: RapidRobert] #356144
07/26/09 03:55 PM
07/26/09 03:55 PM
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Found another piece of reddish-orange silicon glob floating in the top of the radiator approx/ 1/8" by 1/8".

We pulled the radiator today and it goes to the radiator shop tomorrow morning. Is there anything else we should do while the radiator is out of the car?

Is there anything that could be causing a lean condition at idle or at in-town driving besides too small of a jet?

I always thought if you run a car without a t-stat, the motor will never reach normal operating temp which leads me to believe there is still an underlying problem here.

If the center carb is lean, would it be worse at idle or in-town driving?

What about idle mixture screws, could they be too lean?

Thanks, Rob

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: Rob440Magnum] #356145
07/26/09 05:52 PM
07/26/09 05:52 PM
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440-6 actually draws fuel on the idle circut through all three carbs.. A plugged idle passage in any of the six barrels could cause a lean condition...

Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #356146
07/26/09 07:48 PM
07/26/09 07:48 PM
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As you may recall, I too am having an overheating problem with my 383. No one has said anything about the post entered by DAYCLONA on June 24 about removing the Prestone antifreeze and substituting with ZEREX G-05. Seems as though he's done everything to eliminate the problem and then the G-05 solved it. Could it be that easy?
Anyone got any thoughts on this?


James Stinebaker
Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why [Re: JSSuperbee] #356147
07/26/09 08:16 PM
07/26/09 08:16 PM
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Quote:

As you may recall, I too am having an overheating problem with my 383. No one has said anything about the post entered by DAYCLONA on June 24 about removing the Prestone antifreeze and substituting with ZEREX G-05. Seems as though he's done everything to eliminate the problem and then the G-05 solved it. Could it be that easy?
Anyone got any thoughts on this?








James, my daytona had hot running situations, only a few times, it really lost it and puked,....I'd run a constant 200-220 moving around town, if I got stuck in bumper to bumper crawling traffic for more than 10-15 minutes, the temp would rise to 240-250 real quick!.... hyway, it would drop to 200 degrees,.....and I played with all the combo's, EVERYTHING was new, as this was a fresh total restoration/build,....carburation was addressed (6pak), timing, cooling system, everything,......the Zerex G-05 was a guess at best,.....but with no other changes, other than flushing the system, the car went from running in the 200-220 in traffic, to 180-200, running a 50/50 mix G-05/water,....after reading some mag reports on what waterwetters worked and what didn't, I went with the Redline product, 8 oz bottle to the 50/50 G-05,.....that was good for a 20 degree drop, now I have the opposite problem, waiting for the engine to warm up!,.....I took the Mellon out for a ride yesterday, it was quite humid, temp was around mid 80's, in the past it would hit 200+ easily cruising even at that temp,.....I was lucky if I saw no more than 180,....and I'm running a 180 thermostat, and I have a 5 row micro tube radiator, shroud, solid blade factory fan, plus wingcar seals through out the nose, and radiator channeling air to just the radiator


I'd highly recommend the G-05 Zerex brand and Redline waterwetter, it's not to be confused with Dexcool, which is junk, the Zerex is intended as a replacement for "green juice" users

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