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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why
[Re: Challenger 1]
#356089
06/24/09 09:40 AM
06/24/09 09:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,948
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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I Win
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what do his/yours plugs look like & he might pull his stat for 1 day. EDIT forgot about timing(his vs yours)
My timing is 13 degrees initial and the six pack is 15 degrees initial timing. We cannot go any higher or they ping on 93 pump gas.
Plugs are fine.
What are you recommending we try with the thermostat?
What is his and your TOTAL timing ? I ASSuME the shop that dynoed the engines recurved the dizzy's as needed ?
If the water temps are very close then it's not really running hot . because his crossover is open the intake is hotter on his engine vs. yours , plus the 6pack air cleaner is alot bigger than yours and will trap the heat coming off the engine.
Did you adjust the timing from what the dyno sessions were set at ? if so which way ?
Yes he mentioned any more than 15 degrees initial it will ping, sounds like the dist is not setup right.
I run 18 initial and 34 total and my 440 six pak which runs great and stays cool even on 90 degree days with the AC cranking. I drove it for about a hour last Sun(90 degree day) and then pulled in the driveway and let it idle for another 15 mins and the temp stayed rock steady. BTW all stock cooling system.
That's what I'm wondering , if it was set up right on the dyno and they backed the timing off to stop the pinging then the TOTAL is not enough which will cause the engine to run hotter .
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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why
[Re: JohnRR]
#356090
06/24/09 09:44 AM
06/24/09 09:44 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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[
That's what I'm wondering , if it was set up right on the dyno and they backed the timing off to stop the pinging then the TOTAL is not enough which will cause the engine to run hotter .
You mean not enough initial timing right?
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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why
[Re: 62maxwgn]
#356092
06/24/09 02:14 PM
06/24/09 02:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
MNobody
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
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What waterpump's?
not 100% sure, but I think we have the same ones new from Mancini Racing. Can't remember what model # or specifics. What information about the water pump would you want to know?
Some pumps have more fins on the impeller to move more water, i believe AC cars have 7 versus 5 on the non AC cars.
Standard pump has 8 blades,A/C has 6,keeps water in radiator longer with slower circulation.
Ahh thank's for the correction on that i wasn't sure but i knew they were different.
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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why
[Re: MNobody]
#356093
06/24/09 04:37 PM
06/24/09 04:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
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Az
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R U both running the vacuum advance on your distributors?
Fastest 300
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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why
[Re: Mopar-Al]
#356097
06/24/09 07:53 PM
06/24/09 07:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,948
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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I Win
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wonder if 1 block has thinner cylinder walls
He still hasn't answered if his friends car is ACTUALLY OVERHEATING or if the complaint is the heat coming off the engine ?
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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why
[Re: Rob440Magnum]
#356098
06/24/09 08:00 PM
06/24/09 08:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
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I Live Here
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Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Rob,.....I have a 440/6 THAT use to run hot in my Daytona, professionaly built by a "known" race shop down south, dyno's at 450 HP, 030 over, KB forged pistons, roller valvetrain 520 lift, 10:1 compression, yada,yada,yada....15 degress initial, almost 40 total by 2500 RPM,...solid factory blade fan, factory shroud,brand new 26" High Effienciency micro tube 5 row radiator fan and shroud properly spaced, plus being a wingcar, has a complete rubber "flap work" of sheilds that boxes in the radiator to the front grille, plus foam seals around the radiator,.....tried everything when I first put this car together, to try and keep it under 250,....It was fustrating, confirmed running tempertures with infrared, and thermocouple probes to calibrated independant equipment in hopes the "rebuilt" factory gauges were wrong,... NOT!..... plus the car puking green stuff everwhere I went! kinda confirmed it! .... tried timing changes, thermostats, no thermostats, fans, spacers, clutch, solids, 5-7 blades, etc, shroud spacing, jetting/fuel enrichment,....you name it,..... running factory HP manifolds the heat riser is removed, the exhaust is not restictive,...Chambered 2 1/2" pipe, exiting thru factory tips, no mufflers  ....intake crossover is functional,....after several months playing all the combos, and really no improvements,....kinda stumpled apon this,.....dumped the Prestone green stuff,....Completely flushed the system,...replaced with ZEREX G-05, clear in color, not sticky,...and it's not that DEXCOOL crap that GM's use, that clog/rot your system,....I used the Zerex G-05 with 50/50 water mix, and 8 oz bottle of Redlines waterwetter (avaliable at Autozone),......with no other changes, other than the fluids, the car went from running 220-250, to 190-200 consistently (running a 180 stat) and no more puking green after a run! PS, the Zerex G-05 is designed as a replacement for cars running the "greenstuff",....says so on the bottle!.....I tried the Zerex first, was worth about 20 degrees off my heat, the waterwetter took another 20 degrees off......I've been running that combo of "juice" for 5 yrs now, no cooling issuses/problems, even in bogged traffic, super hot days, high RPM runs, etc....I do flush, and replinesh the system every year Mike
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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#356099
06/24/09 08:20 PM
06/24/09 08:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 533
Williamsport, PA
Rob440Magnum
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mopar addict
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Williamsport, PA
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He still hasn't answered if his friends car is ACTUALLY OVERHEATING or if the complaint is the heat coming off the engine ?
Technically it is not overheating. The needle on his restored rallye gauges runs at the top of the safe zone a little below the line that is located just below the H.
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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why
[Re: Rob440Magnum]
#356101
06/24/09 08:42 PM
06/24/09 08:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 533
Williamsport, PA
Rob440Magnum
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Ok so what thermostat is he running? what are his actual temps? all things being equal he might be a tad lean. Your 4bbl probably uses/flows more gas then his center carb. I bumped my centers up to 64.
180 or 185 degree thermostat. We both have the same.
I will have to check what he has written down but I think his center carb is 64 or 65.
This weekend we will mess around with some of the ideas everyone shared. I cannot remember the different temps we got with my laser temp gun at the diff locations, but we will try that and compare versus my car at the same locations and let everyone know.
Thanks, Rob
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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why
[Re: RapidRobert]
#356105
06/29/09 06:26 PM
06/29/09 06:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 533
Williamsport, PA
Rob440Magnum
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Williamsport, PA
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Guys, we have not had a chance to try any of your suggestions yet. It has been raining a lot in PA.
Question:
What is the correct location of the clutch fan inside the fan shroud. If I stand to the side of the car I can see approx. 80% of my fan blades with only 20% inside the shroud. I can see only 30% of the fan blades with 70% inside the shroud on the six pack motor.
Which is correct?
Thanks, Rob
Last edited by Rob440Magnum; 06/29/09 06:32 PM.
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Re: 440 six pack - running hot - why
[Re: RapidRobert]
#356107
06/29/09 06:35 PM
06/29/09 06:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 533
Williamsport, PA
Rob440Magnum
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mopar addict
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Any thoughts?
I'm not sure on this but I think at least 2/3 in. 20% in for sure is not enough, yes add a spacer when you find out the correct amt
My car is the one that does not run hot. So do you think mine would run cooler if I made that change or should I just let well enough alone?
I just looked at my buddy's six pack and his is about 2/3rds in so I guess his is correct.
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...First, yes I used a spring from another lower hose I had laying around just for insurance...And secondly...I'm wondering if the rallye gauge and the temp sender is in sync with each other...I usually install a known correct temp gauge on the vehicle...Note the correct temp and see where the gauge is running...And I agree with John..The air temp around the engine bay on my 6-bbl always seems hotter than my single 4- bbl big block but the running temps are close... 
