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Re: My bellhousing runout numbers...what dowels do I need?
[Re: Blakcharger440]
#333033
05/30/09 12:29 AM
05/30/09 12:29 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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I'm assuming all your "numbers" are both positive or both negitive of Zero,if so.... You'll need to buy a few sets, depending on what the manufacturer offers......for what dems you supplied .002 thru .010 offset, if your looking to get within .001-.0015 runout,.....it's a "trying" procedure, but well worth the benefits,.....when you tighten down the bell, try to replicate your torque pattern, as you find out, varying your tightning pattern, varies the runout!....make sure all the bolts are present in the bell, as you offset for dial in measurements 
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Re: My bellhousing runout numbers...what dowels do I need?
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#333034
05/30/09 01:44 AM
05/30/09 01:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 735
Spokane,WA
Genuinejed
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 735
Spokane,WA
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Not to hijack, but...something seems funny with your numbers. When I first checked mine I set the indicator to zero at 12 o'clock and it read .007 at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock. It read .036 at 6 o'clock. I assumed the register was low on the engine and installed Lakewood .014 offset dowels with the offset straight up. This helped, but the measurement was still off .020 in the same direction. FSM sez use an offset dowel with half of the needed correction. I too am wondering how you are supposed to select the correct dowel.
1968 Plymouth road runner
1968 Dodge Coronet 500
64 D200
Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick Two.
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Re: My bellhousing runout numbers...what dowels do I need?
[Re: 446acuda]
#333037
05/30/09 12:20 PM
05/30/09 12:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,402
Wichita,KS
Blakcharger440
OP
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OP
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Posts: 2,402
Wichita,KS
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Quote:
Quote:
The runout numbers on my Lakewood bellhousing are as follows.
Straight up and down I got .007
Left and Right I got .0135
What RobbMC dowels do I need in order to correct the alignment?
If they are all positive numbers, then your total indicated runout is .0065. Max allowed runout is .008 so your is good to go without offset dowels although you may be able to tweek it to nearly perfect by using one standard dowel and one .007 dowel.
What do you guys mean by "positive" numbers? When I measured at the 12:00 and 6:00 positions it read .007 and then I backed it up back to 12:00 just to make sure it went back to zero and it did...I did the same with the 3:00 and 9:00 positions which were .0135.
Is there something I am doing wrong here?
And I thought acceptable runout was supposed to be .005 At least that is what it says on the RobbMC website.
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Re: My bellhousing runout numbers...what dowels do I need?
[Re: JohnRR]
#333039
05/31/09 01:05 PM
05/31/09 01:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,402
Wichita,KS
Blakcharger440
OP
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OP
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Wichita,KS
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Quote:
which way did it move postive or negative , meaning did the indicator move from 0 to 7 or from 0 to 93 ? same for the left and right ? you need to go .0035 in onedirecting and .0065 in the other so the dowel with the least offset should fix you right up
I am not sure I understand. On my dial indicator the number to left of zero is 5 and the number to right of zero is 5. Both left and right progess to the total number of 20 at the bottom of the gauge.
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Re: My bellhousing runout numbers...what dowels do I need?
[Re: Blakcharger440]
#333040
05/31/09 01:19 PM
05/31/09 01:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,407
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
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I Live Here
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Posts: 18,407
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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Quote:
Quote:
which way did it move postive or negative , meaning did the indicator move from 0 to 7 or from 0 to 93 ? same for the left and right ? you need to go .0035 in onedirecting and .0065 in the other so the dowel with the least offset should fix you right up
I am not sure I understand. On my dial indicator the number to left of zero is 5 and the number to right of zero is 5. Both left and right progess to the total number of 20 at the bottom of the gauge.
I always call right of zero positive and left of zero negative.
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Re: My bellhousing runout numbers...what dowels do I need?
[Re: Blakcharger440]
#333041
05/31/09 01:25 PM
05/31/09 01:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,697
North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 10,697
North Dakota
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Rotate the crank until the reading is at the lowest value (plunger extended). Mark this point on the bell and zero the indicator. Then roll the crank until the reading is at its maximum. Record the reading and mark the bell at that point. The off center value is half the indicator reading. If you draw a straight line through the two marks you made on the bell, the bell has to be shifted along the direction of the line, half the dial indicator reading, towards the second mark. BTW, the two marks should be directly opposite each other.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: My bellhousing runout numbers...what dowels do I need?
[Re: Blakcharger440]
#333042
05/31/09 07:14 PM
05/31/09 07:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,948
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,948
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
which way did it move postive or negative , meaning did the indicator move from 0 to 7 or from 0 to 93 ? same for the left and right ? you need to go .0035 in onedirecting and .0065 in the other so the dowel with the least offset should fix you right up
I am not sure I understand. On my dial indicator the number to left of zero is 5 and the number to right of zero is 5. Both left and right progess to the total number of 20 at the bottom of the gauge.
you posted a picture of this dial indicator in your other thread , how do i zero out my dial bore guage ...
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Re: My bellhousing runout numbers...what dowels do I need?
[Re: JohnRR]
#333044
05/31/09 10:19 PM
05/31/09 10:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,402
Wichita,KS
Blakcharger440
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,402
Wichita,KS
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
which way did it move postive or negative , meaning did the indicator move from 0 to 7 or from 0 to 93 ? same for the left and right ? you need to go .0035 in onedirecting and .0065 in the other so the dowel with the least offset should fix you right up
I am not sure I understand. On my dial indicator the number to left of zero is 5 and the number to right of zero is 5. Both left and right progess to the total number of 20 at the bottom of the gauge.
you posted a picture of this dial indicator in your other thread , how do i zero out my dial bore guage ...
Hey John, I ended up using a different dial indicator that I borrowed from a friend who used to be a machinist. The dial indicator that I purchased from Harbor Freight in the pic was too big for the hole that I had a hard time adjusting it. 
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Re: My bellhousing runout numbers...what dowels do I need?
[Re: Stanton]
#333047
05/31/09 10:41 PM
05/31/09 10:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,948
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
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U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
They all swing left and right once they're preloaded !!!
OH really ??? thanks for the correction.
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Re: My bellhousing runout numbers...what dowels do I need?
[Re: JohnRR]
#333048
06/05/09 08:22 PM
06/05/09 08:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,402
Wichita,KS
Blakcharger440
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I just wanted to get some input on the runout numbers that I got last night. -.020 at the 2:00 position .008 at the 8:00 position What does that mean? At this point do I use the .007 dowel or the .014 dowel? Or do I just leave the stock ones in? I had pulled the dial indicator assembly off last night and today I reinstalled it and got totally different numbers!  At this point I am planning on just keeping the stock dowels in and hoping for the best as I dont see a way to come up with some reliable numbers. 
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Re: My bellhousing runout numbers...what dowels do I need?
[Re: Blakcharger440]
#333049
06/05/09 08:30 PM
06/05/09 08:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 148
Raleigh, NC
Youngblood
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member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 148
Raleigh, NC
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If you get -.020 and .008, your TIR (total indicator reading) is .028, and you need .014 offset dowels. You place them both in the same direction,in such a way to move the bell .014, which is half of your current TIR. You don't want to run at .028, you will have problems. 
Last edited by Youngblood; 06/05/09 08:31 PM.
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Re: My bellhousing runout numbers...what dowels do I need?
[Re: Blakcharger440]
#333050
06/06/09 05:34 AM
06/06/09 05:34 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 51
Martinez, California
Challenged
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member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 51
Martinez, California
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Just wanted to chime in. I have only done this once so I am no expert and I am curious if the method I used is correct. I used the method Keisler explains in their installation instructions as I am installing one of their TKO600 kits. Using their method you take 4 readings; 12:00, 03:00, 06:00 and 09:00. I zero'd my dial indicator at 12:00 so that reading is "0", 03:00 was -0.010, 06:00 was +0.002 and 09:00 was +0.012. Their method says to add the opposite readings then divide by 2 = runout in that direction. 12:00 + 06:00, 0 + 0.002 = 0.002 divided by 2 = 0.001 top/bottom runout; 09:00 + 03:00, 0.012 + -0.010 = 0.002 divided by 2 =0.001 left/right runout. If their method is correct using your numbers 02:00, -0.020 and 08:00, 0.008; -0.020 + 0.008 = -0.012 divded by 2 = a runout of 0.006, ignore the negative value. According to Keisler if your runout is more than 0.005 you will need to correct it.
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Re: My bellhousing runout numbers...what dowels do I need?
[Re: Challenged]
#333051
06/06/09 09:49 AM
06/06/09 09:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,697
North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,697
North Dakota
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Quote:
Just wanted to chime in. I have only done this once so I am no expert and I am curious if the method I used is correct. I used the method Keisler explains in their installation instructions as I am installing one of their TKO600 kits. Using their method you take 4 readings; 12:00, 03:00, 06:00 and 09:00. I zero'd my dial indicator at 12:00 so that reading is "0", 03:00 was -0.010, 06:00 was +0.002 and 09:00 was +0.012. Their method says to add the opposite readings then divide by 2 = runout in that direction. 12:00 + 06:00, 0 + 0.002 = 0.002 divided by 2 = 0.001 top/bottom runout; 09:00 + 03:00, 0.012 + -0.010 = 0.002 divided by 2 =0.001 left/right runout. If their method is correct using your numbers 02:00, -0.020 and 08:00, 0.008; -0.020 + 0.008 = -0.012 divded by 2 = a runout of 0.006, ignore the negative value. According to Keisler if your runout is more than 0.005 you will need to correct it.
The Keisler method is one reason I hate overly complicated instructions for no real benefit. That method if followed to the letter depends on starting out with the dial indicator at '0'. If Blakcharger440 could do that (which apparently he can't), his numbers would be either '0' and '28' or '0' and '-28' depending on which point the dial was zeroed on. Youngblood and others are correct, the secret is Total Indicator Reading (TIR) which is double the offset. Based on Blak's last numbers, 0.014" would be the applicable correction.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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