Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Little Red Express performance #3294080
03/11/25 05:28 PM
03/11/25 05:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 275
Green Bay
Andyvh1959 Offline OP
enthusiast
Andyvh1959  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 275
Green Bay
Now as I near the end of my kitchen remodel project, and then update the transmission in my 2003 Kawasaki Vulcan 1600, then I finally start the tear down of my 2001 Dakota donor chassis for the chassis going under my 1956 Dodge C3. My 56 will have a built 318, cam, headers, some head work to bump the compression up, conencted to a ZF HP70 8-spd automatic and a 3:55 limited slip rear axle. Other than a 318 versus the 360 in the Little Red Express of the late 70s, its a comparable spec. In fact, my 56 should do better with the 8-spd versus the 3-spd 727 in the Express. My goal for the built 318 should get me around 300 hp at the crank and 250 to the rear axle.

I found this info on the Little Red Express: https://www.dodgeconnection.com/LilRedInfo.html

I note the engine power rating shows 225 NET horsepower, 295 ft-lb of torque. But the 0-60 performance of only 6.7 seconds sounds like there had to more power to the rear wheels than was posted in that article. A Dakota RT with the 360 on fuel injection could make 0-60 in about 6.9 seconds, on 250 hp and 345 ftlb of torque. Either way, a built 318 in my 56 with the 8-spd trans and 3:55 rear axle should get me easily into the mid six second range for 0-60, which sounds like fun to me.


My 56 C3-B8 Dakota build
Re: Little Red Express performance [Re: Andyvh1959] #3294101
03/11/25 06:45 PM
03/11/25 06:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 16,526
Central Florida
larrymopar360 Offline
Stud Muffin
larrymopar360  Offline
Stud Muffin

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 16,526
Central Florida
I remember the '78 would run mid 15's 1/4 which was really impressive. The internals were really good too.

I definitely like the sound of your build. Probably go even go with 4.10 gears if you wanted. up


Facts are stubborn things.
Re: Little Red Express performance [Re: larrymopar360] #3294161
03/11/25 09:41 PM
03/11/25 09:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,110
Freeport IL USA
poorboy Offline
I Live Here
poorboy  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,110
Freeport IL USA
I don't have any way to get a real timed 0-60 (nor do I really care), but my 49 feels pretty good when I hammer it from a stop. I've had riders comment about how quick it feels. I do have to be pretty careful not to spin the tires.
Your 56 should be a lot of fun, my 49 has your truck out weighed by probably close to 1,000 lbs, mine being a 4x4.

The Little Red Express Trucks were among the fastest production vehicles produced during that time frame, that 360 in the LRE was a hot motor for its time. They like to drink gas too, the mpg was in the 10 mpg range.

Re: Little Red Express performance [Re: poorboy] #3294386
03/12/25 09:52 PM
03/12/25 09:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 275
Green Bay
Andyvh1959 Offline OP
enthusiast
Andyvh1959  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 275
Green Bay
some surprising specs for the Little Red Express, given the performance it was known for:

https://www.hotrod.com/features/mopp-0111-1978-dodge-lil-red-express-truck/

pretty low compression for that 360. Imagine the oomphh possible if they had designed the engine with 10:1 compression comparable to current engines. My 5.2 Magnum will have 10:1 comp and 1.6:1 ratio lifters (versus the 1.5:1 in the Express 360), and the Magnum heads have bigger intake and exhaust valve (302 heads) than the heads in the Express 360. valves.

Trans in the Express, a 727 three speed, ratios 1st gear = 2.45 2nd gear = 1.45 3rd gear = 1.00 (these are the same as the standard Load Flight) going to the 3:55 ratio rear axle.

The trans ratios for my 56, ZF 8HP-70: 1st gear 3.317 4.714 3.143 2.106 1.667 1.285 1.000 0.839 8th gear 0.667 also going to same 3:55 ratio rear axle

The trans going into my 56 has a much lower 1st gear, and three more gears until it matches the Express trans 2nd gear, and two overdrive gears (7th and 8th). The Express had common leaf spring suspension. My 56 will have coil-overs with trigulated four-bar links which help place the axle better and control axle/spring wrap up. Should launch well and help keep the power on through those gears. Plus should give it great response when I tromp it down. If I can get close to 300hp to the real axle it will be a fun ride, if I can keep my foot out of it. The torque converter is a ten inch which in the Challenger with the Hemi had a stall speed of 1800. But my 56 will have a lot less horsepower than the Challenger Hemi, at only about 300hp versus the Hemi at 485hp.

Last edited by Andyvh1959; 03/12/25 10:07 PM.

My 56 C3-B8 Dakota build
Re: Little Red Express performance [Re: Andyvh1959] #3294506
03/13/25 12:36 PM
03/13/25 12:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,124
Salem
Grizzly Offline
World champion corn dog eater
Grizzly  Offline
World champion corn dog eater

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,124
Salem
Nothing sucks more power out of an engine than a 727.

Found that out after owning a number of 318/727's and got my first 318 4-speed. The power difference was night and day.

Any thought to skipping the 318 and just doing a 5.7 8-speed? The 904 based Overdrive is good option for your 318, they take less power to turn.


Mo' Farts

Moderated by "tbagger".
Re: Little Red Express performance [Re: Grizzly] #3294604
03/13/25 10:31 PM
03/13/25 10:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 275
Green Bay
Andyvh1959 Offline OP
enthusiast
Andyvh1959  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 275
Green Bay
Thanks for the info and reply. I found a contact online that had replaced the 727 in his D150 pickup (318) with a TH8-70 8-spd. He claimed with no other changes his higway mileage from 14 at best to just over 21mpg. That in itself is pretty impressive. Though a 5.7 Hemi is tempting, I'm pretty much on one track to a classic 5.2 Magnum with the TH8-70 trans. Plus its a smaller overall package to fit into the engine bay of the 56. Another member here built his 55 Dodge pickup on a 2005 Dakota chassis, with a 5.7 Hemi. He had to move the firewall rearward into the cab 3" to gain clearance for the engine. I'm planning to use the Dakota firewall and floorpan so I don't have to modify the firewall (at minimum at least) to suit anything that goes through it. Parts for the 5.2 Magnum are less expensive than the Hemi.

I will though, have to modify the floor tunnel to gain clearance for the larger body of the TH8-70 trans. Hopefully I just need to slice it up the middle and spread it open a bit.

Last edited by Andyvh1959; 03/13/25 11:16 PM.

My 56 C3-B8 Dakota build
Re: Little Red Express performance [Re: Andyvh1959] #3294931
03/15/25 12:25 PM
03/15/25 12:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,894
north of coder
moparx Offline
Buying your homeless and unwanted bolt on battery terminals
moparx  Offline
Buying your homeless and unwanted bolt on battery terminals

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,894
north of coder
the E58 cop engine, 360/727 i had in my 38 plymouth coupe [3550lbs with me in it] , 3.91 gears, stock iron exhaust manifolds and 30" tall rear tires went 13.90's [i forget the mph] with ease using an untuned T-Quad and unoptimised distributor timing.
i believe close to a second could have been gained easily, had i knew how to tune stuff like i know how to do today. up
beer

Re: Little Red Express performance [Re: moparx] #3294937
03/15/25 12:36 PM
03/15/25 12:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,288
rust belt
M
Moparite Offline
pro stock
Moparite  Offline
pro stock
M

Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,288
rust belt
The LRE was one of the last vehicles that didn't have catalytic converters. up

Re: Little Red Express performance [Re: moparx] #3295140
03/16/25 02:12 PM
03/16/25 02:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 275
Green Bay
Andyvh1959 Offline OP
enthusiast
Andyvh1959  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2022
Posts: 275
Green Bay
My plan for my 56: built 5.2 Magnum (torque cam, more lift, 10:1 compression) tunable electronic ignition/distributor, long tube headers, revised Kegger and throttle body for more airflow, 2-1/2 exhaust duals with Magnaflo 50 series chambered SS mufflers, TH8-70 8-spd trans, 3:55 rear axle with limited slip, 30" tires. No plans for drag strip fun, at least not now. But I may be able to get into the high 13s. Even if I never take it to the 1/4 mile it should be a plenty fun driver. It won't beat the likes of a current Dodge Challenger with the 5.7 Hemi, but it won't be a slouch.

Last edited by Andyvh1959; 03/16/25 02:16 PM.

My 56 C3-B8 Dakota build
Re: Little Red Express performance [Re: Moparite] #3295404
03/17/25 03:50 PM
03/17/25 03:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,033
Between Houston & Galveston TX
SattyNoCar Offline
This space for rent
SattyNoCar  Offline
This space for rent

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,033
Between Houston & Galveston TX
Originally Posted by Moparite
The LRE was one of the last vehicles that didn't have catalytic converters. up


The first year anyway. It was interesting how Chrysler skirted the issue by the vehicles GVW capacity. The first year was essentially a 'heavy half' putting the truck into a different category that didn't require cats.


John

The dream is dead, long live the dream.......😥
Re: Little Red Express performance [Re: SattyNoCar] #3296039
03/21/25 08:46 AM
03/21/25 08:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,106
new jersey usa
1
11secdart Offline
master
11secdart  Offline
master
1

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,106
new jersey usa
I have always liked the LREs , I go to Carlisle every year and to see them all lined up in a row is cool ! one just came up for sale in my area recently , a 79 second owner has been sitting for 20 years in fairly decent shape ad says ran when parked I felt the price was a little high at $12,000 , I considered selling my 92 D150 short / bed regular cab 2WD I bought new and purchasing the LRE with in a day the ad said sale pending .


68 Dart 410 / 904
92 D150 original owner
21 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, Big Horn , Hemi ,4x4
23 Audi Q5
16 Honda HRV
Re: Little Red Express performance [Re: 11secdart] #3296139
03/21/25 02:49 PM
03/21/25 02:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,110
Freeport IL USA
poorboy Offline
I Live Here
poorboy  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,110
Freeport IL USA
The Little Red Express trucks were great trucks for their time frame. If you desire to own a piece of history and can find an original truck in good condition, buy it. The 78s should be worth more then the 79s, long term, because the 79s had more emission stuff on them. If the one you find needs a total restoration, you will probably be upsides down on it.

If your thinking its a great truck to have fun with, but the historic value isn't high on your priority list, spend the money to build a go fast 93 or older truck you already own, and have more fun.







Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1