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Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information #32598
12/25/06 11:07 PM
12/25/06 11:07 PM
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BradH Offline
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I'm curious what people believe the specs are for the original A12 cam or the comparable 4-bbl version that supposedly was the same specs (other than the lobe taper). All I know for sure is one version of what looks like a repro cam is 214/225 @ .050", .449"/.464", 115 LSA. Has anyone measured the MP repro cam and can compare it with those #s?

Also, if you contacted the tech people for the Pure Stock Muscle Car Drags and asked them what the original cam specs are for the purpose of Certification, what would they say?

Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: BradH] #32599
12/26/06 12:11 AM
12/26/06 12:11 AM
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Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD Offline
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I don't know about the lift, but the advertised duration for an A12 was 276 292 with 54 degrees overlap. I have an original one if you want to get together and check it?

Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: RoadRunnerJD] #32600
12/26/06 12:15 PM
12/26/06 12:15 PM
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Texas
dannysbee Offline
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I believe forged pistons and more cam were on the drawing board for the A12 cars but I was under the impression neither made production. JD I would be courious as to the spec's of your cam, please let us know.


Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: dannysbee] #32601
12/26/06 12:21 PM
12/26/06 12:21 PM
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NJ-USA
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HPMike Offline
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I would also like to know about the spec on the orig. A12 cam. I never saw one, I do have an original '70 six pack cam. I always thought the A12's speced out the same as the 4V's with the exception being the use of the low taper design lobes/lifters.

Mike

Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: BradH] #32602
12/26/06 11:33 PM
12/26/06 11:33 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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sounds like JD needs to get his OE cam over to Brad so he can put it in a block and measure it up.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: fast68plymouth] #32603
12/28/06 03:49 PM
12/28/06 03:49 PM
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BradH Offline
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Quote:

sounds like JD needs to get his OE cam over to Brad so he can put it in a block and measure it up.



Yep... 'cept I need to have a block w/a crank in it where I can actually measure it. But the measuring part is a "no brainer".

Here's some other stuff to on the original A12 camshaft... seems like the factory couldn't quite decide what to tell people when the cars were introduced. Here are a bunch of quotes from various "at the time" articles linked from the A12 Registry, including the links to the articles themselves, plus some of Ro McGonegal's after-the-fact comments published many years later:

http://sixpacksixbbl.homestead.com/a12roadtestspage3.html
"Compression is a moderate 10.0:1... Intake... 268 duration, Exhaust... duration is 284... Lift is .450"-inch on the intake and .465-inch on the exhaust."

http://sixpacksixbbl.homestead.com/a12roadtestpage2.html
"Compression ratio... 10.5-to-1
Camshaft... Hydraulic, .450-465-inch lift"

http://sixpacksixbbl.homestead.com/a12roadtestspage6.html
"Compression ratio... 10.1:1
cam timing... duration, int.exh.... 268/284"

http://www.homestead.com/sixpacksixbbl/a12roadtestspage7.html
Plymouth's original 440 Six BBL Road Runner ad: "Special low-taper 276-292-54 camshaft..."

http://sixpacksixbbl.homestead.com/a12roadtestspage8.html
"Cam Duration... Intake 276... Exhaust 292... Overlap 54
Lift at 0-in. Lash... Intake .450 in.... Exhaust .465 in."

http://www.homestead.com/sixpacksixbbl/a12roadtestspage10.html
"The camshaft intake side has 276* duration and .450" lift. The exhaust side uses 292* duration at a higher .465" lift. Overlap is 54*."

http://www.homestead.com/sixpacksixbbl/a12roadtestspage11.html
Ro McGonegal's comments a couple of decades after the Cecil County test:
"The production cam had 268/284-degrees duration, .450/.465-inch lift and 46 degrees of overlap, but the one in our mule kicked a little harder. This cam was reportedly phased with stock lift, 276/292 degrees of intake and exhaust duration, and 54 degrees of overlap. We suspect, too, that the 10.5:1 forged pistons originally proposed for this limited-production 440 were inside the engine of our special test car. Though early print ads specified the higher-than-standard compression ratio, the naked truth was cast-aluminum pistons and a nominal static compression ratio of 10.1:1."

Last edited by Brad Hawk; 12/28/06 04:29 PM.
Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: BradH] #32604
12/28/06 05:55 PM
12/28/06 05:55 PM
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BradH Offline
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Quote:

... one version of what looks like a repro cam is 214/225 @ .050", .449"/.464", 115 LSA. Has anyone measured the MP repro cam and can compare it with those #s?



I bring this up, again, because I found an article in an older issue of Mopar Muscle where Bob K. discussed the details of both his Super Bee and his Hemi 'Cuda. In it he mentioned the MP repro cam, but said the duration at .050" #s were 208/220, which is smaller than I expected.

Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: BradH] #32605
12/29/06 12:26 PM
12/29/06 12:26 PM
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RoadRunnerJD and I will be making arrangements to measure his OEM A12 cam at some point to have a legit point of reference from which to compare other cam options. I can't say how soon we'll get this done, but it will happen.

BTW, the cam I had ground for my A12 RR, what I refer to as the "Mr. Snack Pack" grind" is...
Adv duration - 272/280
.050" duration - 223/232
Lift (1.5) - .503"/.513"
LSA - 115

The intended use is a for 9.5:1 CR, 906 heads w/ stock-size valves and some bowl porting, OEM exhaust manifolds, a high-flow replacement 2.5" exhaust system, 4.10 gears, 4-speed, and a custom-curved distributor from FBO. If I was running an automatic instead of a 4-speed, I'd either drop the duration down a size on both intake & exhaust, or have the same lobes ground on a tighter LSA... maybe 112-113.

Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: BradH] #32606
12/29/06 04:23 PM
12/29/06 04:23 PM
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Texas
dannysbee Offline
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Brad I used a Hughes 223-230 504I 515E with good results. It seemed to be a good exhaust manifold cam as it pushed a 3860 lbs Bee 110+ in the quarter with a cast iron intake and AVS carb. With 451 cubic inches you could hear the cam in the exhaust just slightly.


Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: dannysbee] #32607
12/30/06 10:33 AM
12/30/06 10:33 AM
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midwest
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sg333e Offline
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Quote:

Brad I used a Hughes 223-230 504I 515E with good results. It seemed to be a good exhaust manifold cam as it pushed a 3860 lbs Bee 110+ in the quarter with a cast iron intake and AVS carb. With 451 cubic inches you could hear the cam in the exhaust just slightly.




Brad, I used the same cam above, specs very close to what you were describing. I believe the one above was 110, and I thought it rumbled quite well. Vacuum was marginal, say 12 in at idle, enough to get the six pack to idle pretty well. I'm thinking I'd like to try Bob's since I hear they will idle with about 19 in. I have another problem in that my machinist wants to order a stroker for my car...once a racer...


Hobbies and associated message boards: 1970 Cuda 440+6 FE5 H6X9 4 SP> Moparts.com 1987 Grand National (422rwhp/566tq)> TurboBuick.com 2008 BMW 335 TT 6MT> E90Post.com 2008 Gary Fisher HiFi Plus 29er > MTBR.com 2008 German Shorthair Pointer > Shorthairs.net
Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: sg333e] #32608
12/31/06 10:08 AM
12/31/06 10:08 AM
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Quote:

I have another problem in that my machinist wants to order a stroker for my car...once a racer...




Yeah yeah yeah, blame it on your machinist.


Everybody makes fun of a hillbilly until they need something fixed
Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: B_Body_Bob] #32609
06/10/09 10:08 AM
06/10/09 10:08 AM
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Colo
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I know this is an older thread...But did anyone get a definitive answer as to what where the actual specs of the A-12 cam? It sounded like someone had an orig. A-12 cam they were going to blueprint but never posted their findings.

From the links above you can see some magazines of the time printed the specs as 276/292 duration - 54 overlap, and some stated it was the same 268/284 duration - 46 overlap cam found in the 440/383 Hi-Po motors.

Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: PJ68RT] #32610
06/10/09 10:46 AM
06/10/09 10:46 AM
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I posted the measurements from John D's A12 cam years ago on another thread covering some similar info.

IIRC...
Seat duration at .004": 292/310
.050" duration: 214/226
Lift: .449"/460"
LSA: 115 +3 (112 ICL)

Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: BradH] #32611
06/10/09 11:32 AM
06/10/09 11:32 AM
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Holy crap; another TFTD (Thread From The Dead)!

....It's even got B body Bob in it!


Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: DPelletier] #32612
06/10/09 12:40 PM
06/10/09 12:40 PM
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Minnesota
3twos Offline
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Does anyone know approximtely how much manifold vacumn you will have with this cam?


Al & Sheila
Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: 3twos] #32613
06/10/09 01:14 PM
06/10/09 01:14 PM
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Bob told me 18 - 19"

Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: DPelletier] #32614
06/10/09 01:31 PM
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Thanks for the info BradH. Interesting seat-to-seat numbers for the duration.

Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: PJ68RT] #32615
06/10/09 01:53 PM
06/10/09 01:53 PM
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BradH Offline
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Quote:

Thanks for the info BradH. Interesting seat-to-seat numbers for the duration.



It's virtually identical to the Speed Pro CS661, which specs out as adv. duration 292 intake/ 309 exhaust, duration @ .050 of 214 intake and 225 exhaust, Vavle lift of .449 intake and .464 exhaust, Lobe C/L is 115. Erson also has one that's virtually the same w/ the exception of a 1-degree tighter LSA, IIRC.

Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: DPelletier] #32616
06/10/09 07:48 PM
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midwest
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sg333e Offline
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Quote:

Bob told me 18 - 19"

Dave




Mine made 18-20 on the dyno, depending of course on initial timing.


Hobbies and associated message boards: 1970 Cuda 440+6 FE5 H6X9 4 SP> Moparts.com 1987 Grand National (422rwhp/566tq)> TurboBuick.com 2008 BMW 335 TT 6MT> E90Post.com 2008 Gary Fisher HiFi Plus 29er > MTBR.com 2008 German Shorthair Pointer > Shorthairs.net
Re: Looking For Mr. Six Pack Cam Information [Re: sg333e] #32617
04/25/12 04:36 AM
04/25/12 04:36 AM
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Keminmaa
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Blast from the past...

Are these cams still available?


1970 Plymouth GTX 440-6
1970 Plymouth PPR Cuda 489-4
1971 Plymouth Duster Bad Romance 408-W5
1970 Plymouth Fury III Coupe 383-4
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