Re: Does the BB Mopar market really need new heads?
[Re: Uberpube]
#3211786
02/07/24 11:18 PM
02/07/24 11:18 PM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 179 California, U.S.A.
Torquemonster440
member
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member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 179
California, U.S.A.
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T&D machine can make their rockers out of steel if the customer requests it Hmm, I looked all over and asked around and didn't see that they did that back then.. I had a line on some ported and worked over victors when I was starting my build, but ended up waiting for the TF270's to come out so I could use standard location steel rockers. What rockers did you wind up using with the 270's ?
1966 Satellie.. 12.55 @107.75. 906 heads. 3780 lbs.
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Re: Does the BB Mopar market really need new heads?
[Re: Torquemonster440]
#3211804
02/08/24 12:16 AM
02/08/24 12:16 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 742 Southern Alberta
Uberpube
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 742
Southern Alberta
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T&D machine can make their rockers out of steel if the customer requests it Hmm, I looked all over and asked around and didn't see that they did that back then.. I had a line on some ported and worked over victors when I was starting my build, but ended up waiting for the TF270's to come out so I could use standard location steel rockers. What rockers did you wind up using with the 270's ? Comp pro magnums with a B3 racing correction kit.
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Re: Does the BB Mopar market really need new heads?
[Re: Torquemonster440]
#3211805
02/08/24 12:16 AM
02/08/24 12:16 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,982 MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,982
MI, usa
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I can give my report on rockers. Paired T&D aluminum 1.7, 310/805 pressure. Purchased used in 2012. I don't know their previous history. But they've been on my stuff for a little over1000 passes. Doug
Last edited by dvw; 02/08/24 08:46 AM.
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Re: Does the BB Mopar market really need new heads?
[Re: Uberpube]
#3211809
02/08/24 12:52 AM
02/08/24 12:52 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 293 Anchorage, Alaska
metallicareload
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 293
Anchorage, Alaska
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Pretty sure I saw it in their catalog, especially after I had a few "incidents" with aluminum rockers
440, 4-Speed, 3.54 1968, when Dinosaurs ruled the Earth
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Re: Does the BB Mopar market really need new heads?
[Re: AndyF]
#3211828
02/08/24 06:27 AM
02/08/24 06:27 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 774 Southington Ct.
turbobitt
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 774
Southington Ct.
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Yeah, the SR-71 is a cool deal. I'm getting close to running mine on the dyno. From what I've seen so far, the combination of a factory 460 block and a set of SR-71 heads is a pretty easy way to make some serious power. Not as easy as with a BB Chevy, but I think it is easier than with a BB Mopar. The 429-460 engine doesn't have as many fans as the BB Mopar though. They didn't put them in very many muscle cars so the total market size is much smaller. Please share the results on this one !! AG.
1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy.
1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno.
1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
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Re: Does the BB Mopar market really need new heads?
[Re: Uberpube]
#3211851
02/08/24 08:54 AM
02/08/24 08:54 AM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,326 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,326
Loudoun County, VA
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T&D machine can make their rockers out of steel if the customer requests it Hmm, I looked all over and asked around and didn't see that they did that back then.. I had a line on some ported and worked over victors when I was starting my build, but ended up waiting for the TF270's to come out so I could use standard location steel rockers. B3RE had a set of steel T&D for Victors a few years ago that I saw. At the time Mike said they were about $2500, IIRC.
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: Does the BB Mopar market really need new heads?
[Re: topside]
#3211868
02/08/24 10:08 AM
02/08/24 10:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282
A gulag near you.
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I'd like to see a head that looks like the 440Source (meaning stock-appearing) but flows like a TF270, but I'm probably in a minority.
I don't think you are as this is why the 'source head was a hit
Mainstream Media is the new Pravda
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Re: Does the BB Mopar market really need new heads?
[Re: topside]
#3211898
02/08/24 10:45 AM
02/08/24 10:45 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,806 Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,806
Wichita
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I'd like to see a head that looks like the 440Source (meaning stock-appearing) but flows like a TF270, but I'm probably in a minority.
That would be cool for sure. Having a better combustion chamber would be the icing on the cake! I've had CNC ported Stealths on my '63 for over 9 years now. They flow about what a TF-240 flows. No issues and I've beat the crap out of them!
'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
9.92 @ 135mph with a 350 shot of nitrous and 93 octane pump. 1.43 60 ft. 3,750 lbs.
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Re: Does the BB Mopar market really need new heads?
[Re: GY3]
#3211965
02/08/24 01:35 PM
02/08/24 01:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,544 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,544
Las Vegas
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A BMP block for a BBC is $500 less than one for a BBM. If that $500 is gonna break the bank then maybe you need a new hobby. I personally would run an aluminum block before a steel block for the weight savings. But unfortunately. BMP only offers a stock replacement style block. For me that is not what I would want.
A Dart iron BBC replacement block is $4300ish dollars retail. That would be a stock architecture iron block. A Brodix Aluminum replace BBC block is $6100ish for a stock style replacement block. About $400 less than Mitchell. Indy is $7300, KB is $7995 but comes with a raised cam and larger core. Those things cost quite a bit more from Dart or Brodix but are options.
Unfortunately no one reputable seems to be in the non hemi iron block business. But you can buy one for $5999 from Callies/Energy. Making it $1600 or so more than a Dart iron BBC. Again is $1600 is a deal breaker these days then some self examination might be in order.
Everyone knows the inherent weakness of stock block stuff. There are PLENTY of heads in that market area that can more than break a stock block deal.
As for another canted/splayed/symmetrical port Mopar BB head....HAH...Who is gonna buy it? A select few possible in my case without and accompanying block that can be taken to 4.600 bore at least what's the point? We already have a head like that which are slightly more common than unicorn teeth at the track.
I have seen some comments here that echo that old "mopar guys are cheap" refrain I hear all the time. And folks wonder why that moniker sticks. If you wanna go fast it costs money. No way around it, don't matter what make you choose.
Yes you can get a steel rocker for most any head, if T&D makes them in aluminum they can in steel. It just costs money. But so does a T&D aluminum rocker. We had to have Jesel make steel rockers for the heads up car. It took a year of begging them and another year before they had them done due to the offset we have to use. On the end they were almost $5K for the INTAKE rockers. Oh yeah that is for a small block chevy. The morale racing isn't cheap if you want to go fast.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Does the BB Mopar market really need new heads?
[Re: topside]
#3212049
02/08/24 06:14 PM
02/08/24 06:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,905 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,905
Pattison Texas
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I'd like to see a head that looks like the 440Source (meaning stock-appearing) but flows like a TF270, but I'm probably in a minority.
I would think a re-run of the Stage V Hemi heads for BB would sell fairly well.
Bottom line for all such pipe-dreaming is volume & profitability, so I won't hold my breath. They did make a SUPER Stealth from 440 Source, uses offset intake rockers, also easly made into max wedge port, I have not flowed the TF270 on my bench but my Super Stealths that I ported flow over 340@ .650 & they look like stock 440 heads. they might flow better than my #'s , Mr Ported helped me recalibrate my toy flow bench & it was reading low when I did my heads.
Last edited by CSK; 02/08/24 06:17 PM.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Does the BB Mopar market really need new heads?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#3212062
02/08/24 06:55 PM
02/08/24 06:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 774 Southington Ct.
turbobitt
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 774
Southington Ct.
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As for another canted/splayed/symmetrical port Mopar BB head....HAH...Who is gonna buy it? A select few possible in my case without and accompanying block that can be taken to 4.600 bore at least what's the point? We already have a head like that which are slightly more common than unicorn teeth at the track.
Who would buy canted/splayed/symmetrical port Mopar BB head that flowed over 400 CFM for around $3000 price range ...... Hmmm It can be done and was done in another crowd.... AG.
1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy.
1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno.
1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
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Re: Does the BB Mopar market really need new heads?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#3212073
02/08/24 08:07 PM
02/08/24 08:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498 El Dorado Ca
65signet
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
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A BMP block for a BBC is $500 less than one for a BBM. If that $500 is gonna break the bank then maybe you need a new hobby. I personally would run an aluminum block before a steel block for the weight savings. But unfortunately. BMP only offers a stock replacement style block. For me that is not what I would want.
A Dart iron BBC replacement block is $4300ish dollars retail. That would be a stock architecture iron block. A Brodix Aluminum replace BBC block is $6100ish for a stock style replacement block. About $400 less than Mitchell. Indy is $7300, KB is $7995 but comes with a raised cam and larger core. Those things cost quite a bit more from Dart or Brodix but are options.
Unfortunately no one reputable seems to be in the non hemi iron block business. But you can buy one for $5999 from Callies/Energy. Making it $1600 or so more than a Dart iron BBC. Again is $1600 is a deal breaker these days then some self examination might be in order.
Everyone knows the inherent weakness of stock block stuff. There are PLENTY of heads in that market area that can more than break a stock block deal.
As for another canted/splayed/symmetrical port Mopar BB head....HAH...Who is gonna buy it? A select few possible in my case without and accompanying block that can be taken to 4.600 bore at least what's the point? We already have a head like that which are slightly more common than unicorn teeth at the track.
I have seen some comments here that echo that old "mopar guys are cheap" refrain I hear all the time. And folks wonder why that moniker sticks. If you wanna go fast it costs money. No way around it, don't matter what make you choose.
Yes you can get a steel rocker for most any head, if T&D makes them in aluminum they can in steel. It just costs money. But so does a T&D aluminum rocker. We had to have Jesel make steel rockers for the heads up car. It took a year of begging them and another year before they had them done due to the offset we have to use. On the end they were almost $5K for the INTAKE rockers. Oh yeah that is for a small block chevy. The morale racing isn't cheap if you want to go fast. This is want i been thinking about, you have a decent amount of head choices and cubic inch choice, but how much power can you make before the stock block gives up? it seems like its not hard to make 700hp with a 440 block.
1965 Plymouth Barracuda 273 M/SA 1970 Plymouth Duster 360/904 10.60s with J heads
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Re: Does the BB Mopar market really need new heads?
[Re: turbobitt]
#3212185
02/09/24 12:58 PM
02/09/24 12:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,544 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,544
Las Vegas
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As for another canted/splayed/symmetrical port Mopar BB head....HAH...Who is gonna buy it? A select few possible in my case without and accompanying block that can be taken to 4.600 bore at least what's the point? We already have a head like that which are slightly more common than unicorn teeth at the track.
Who would buy canted/splayed/symmetrical port Mopar BB head that flowed over 400 CFM for around $3000 price range ...... Hmmm It can be done and was done in another crowd.... AG. Yeah SBC..We run them and in as cast for they are 100% useless.....If you want a couple sheet metal intakes for them hit me up as I have a few that need a new home. Again as stated WHO would buy one for a MOPAR........You cannot even buy a GOOD race head for that that is usefule for a BBM for $4k. Again reenforcing the ideal that Mopar guys are CHEAP.....If it aint damn near free they have no interest in go fast parts.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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