Re: 440 Source Roller Rocker arms (any good)
[Re: batt2rm]
#2005089
02/03/16 09:52 PM
02/03/16 09:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,439 So Cal
Sinitro
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,439
So Cal
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Yes, too many things are made in China... China has the know-how/capability to build good quality components.... The primary issues when purchasing from China are: 1. China has few natural resources, that why they import tons & tons of recycable material. And China's nature is to use the cheapest material available. 2. Though China manufactures a wide variety of products, many, many buyers have no on-site auditing quality control staff. The buyer doesn't find out about the poor qualty until the shipment arrives, then too late and no leverage.. We have made over 35 sourcing trips to China, and have purchased well >$350 million of products for a wide variety of clients and products There are no short-cuts, the purchase decision is made after the submission of approval samples, but then on-site monitoring/auditting is required to validate the product's quality. Our standard procedure was to have 10 random samples pulled from the mass production lot, air shipped to the USA, we would totally take the samples apart check specs/tolerances and if OK the shipment was released and payment made. Just my $0.02...
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Re: 440 Source Roller Rocker arms (any good)
[Re: Stanton]
#3148396
06/03/23 01:16 PM
06/03/23 01:16 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,096 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,096
Bend,OR USA
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Given the visible wear I'd say this failure was due to something else, not the rocker. That could have been a Harland Sharp rocker and the same thing would have happened to it. I disagree, it looks like that rocker hole is on a slight angle or the needle bearing was installed cock slightly so the bearing end rub against the bottom part of the bearing end, something hard enough to wear into, eat into it, causing that failure
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 440 Source Roller Rocker arms (any good)
[Re: dogdays]
#3148569
06/04/23 10:43 AM
06/04/23 10:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,695 North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,695
North Dakota
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The shift from needle/roller bearings to bushings on aftermarket rocker arms has been going on for a while.
The way I see it, to the average car guy a ball bearing is better than a journal bearing (bushing). Rolling, not sliding, right? When I give tours in our hydro plant that's one of the first areas of discussion because most assume rolling element bearings are better.
SO, when aftermarket rockers moved from Isky and Crane cast rockers, the tendency was to go straight to the rolling element bearing. It has taken decades for aftermarket designers and manufacturers to be convinced that the bushing is better for this application, and to dare to put it on the market where they had to convince the consumer that the bushing was a better way.
So !surprise! now the consumer is starting to ask, "Why are the manufacturers using those crappy needle bearings when everyone knows bushings are better?" 15 years ago they couldn't have sold them.
R. Interesting points. If you look at extreme high speed shafting, you will typically find a sleeve (bushing) style bearing. The ball/needle rotational speed is just to high for a rolling contact bearing. At least that's how it was explained to me by a Sundyne engineer.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: 440 Source Roller Rocker arms (any good)
[Re: 6PakBee]
#3148597
06/04/23 01:43 PM
06/04/23 01:43 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,307 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,307
north of coder
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bearings are for rotating [spinning in a 360 degree circle] parts, bushings are more suited for parts that go in a "back and forth" motion. my reasoning is that the bearings will wear evenly, as they will spin their complete diameter over their lifetime, therefore lasting longer than if they just went "back and forth", wearing on only part of their diameter. [and retaining race or part] think about a u-joint that has no grease, and the brinnilining that takes place on the cross, which is those little "lumps" or lines that are formed by the needles not rotating their complete diameter on the joint cross. just my opinion. your mileage will vary.
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Re: 440 Source Roller Rocker arms (any good)
[Re: moparx]
#3148769
06/05/23 08:23 AM
06/05/23 08:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,351 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,351
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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GOOD rockers w/ bearings have very good service life. I had a set of Harland Sharps on a 440 that were bought new in the mid 1990s and had been on solid roller cams all their life. Never had an issue w/ the bearings. Had to replace two due to flaking on the roller tip, but that's it. I know of many others w/ the same experience as mine. I'm not arguing for or against bushings...just saying the good bearings work very well. If you buy cheap stuff, you have to expect failures.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: 440 Source Roller Rocker arms (any good)
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3148903
06/05/23 03:02 PM
06/05/23 03:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,725 A collage of whims
topside
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,725
A collage of whims
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Yup, hardened shafts are the thing for HP use or needle bearings. HS used to make bushed rockers, and I would think still can. I've run HS needle & bushed style on various engines, and never had a problem. A couple were hot street BBs (1 bushed, 1 needle), one a 368" LA drag motor that saw 7500-8000 RPM (needle).
Years ago at a PRI show, I picked up a Chinese needle roller rocker, and worked the pivots. Felt like they'd put sand in the bearings... Not a good place to save money, IMO.
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Re: 440 Source Roller Rocker arms (any good)
[Re: batt2rm]
#3148907
06/05/23 03:14 PM
06/05/23 03:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,711 Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,711
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
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Rocker arms are maybe the worst possible place to try to save money. If you could buy roller lifters for half the price of good ones I wouldn't buy them either for the same reasons.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: 440 Source Roller Rocker arms (any good)
[Re: batt2rm]
#3148994
06/05/23 08:14 PM
06/05/23 08:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 294 Maryland
MoparMike1974
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 294
Maryland
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Check out Mancini's rollers. They are made by harland sharp and the only difference I can see is no bearing on the pivot. I wouldnt skimp too much on rockers unless your running a relatively low lift cam. They take too much abuse for a low quality part to handle and when they go they can take out a lot of stuff. https://www.manciniracing.com/ben15alro.html
Last edited by MoparMike1974; 06/05/23 08:23 PM.
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Re: 440 Source Roller Rocker arms (any good)
[Re: Sniper]
#3149005
06/05/23 10:10 PM
06/05/23 10:10 PM
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Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 9,387 Super Spudsville
Mr PotatoHead
Half Baked
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Half Baked
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 9,387
Super Spudsville
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Folks should run the info on the bearing inserts and cross for replacement options. If like many china rockers they are a universal size and the as delivered can be upgraded.
STOP POTATO HATE!
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