Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: Kern Dog] #3142775
05/06/23 07:36 AM
05/06/23 07:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,988
Warren, MI
J
Jerry Offline
master
Jerry  Offline
master
J

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,988
Warren, MI
what size master cylinder diameter are you using? you need a smaller bore to raise pressure in the lines.


Superior Design Concepts
2574 Elliott Dr
Troy MI 48083
jerry@sdconcepts.com
www.sdconcepts.com
Facebook page: Superior Design Concepts
www.bcrproducts.com
Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: Jerry] #3142816
05/06/23 12:10 PM
05/06/23 12:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,305
north of coder
moparx Online content
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Online Content
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,305
north of coder
what pedal ratio do you have ?
beer

Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: moparx] #3143312
05/09/23 01:42 AM
05/09/23 01:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline OP
Striving for excellence

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
The master cylinder is a 15/16".
Regarding pedal ratio, my brake pedal actually has a higher ratio than stock. I drilled a hole above the original pushrod hole to increase the leverage. The A body booster and linkage are all on the engine side as opposed to the B body setup where the booster bolts to the firewall and the reduction linkage is under the dash.
The increase in ratio at the pedal is minimized by the reduction linkage but in short, the ratio is still greater than stock, even if only by a small amount.

Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: Kern Dog] #3143321
05/09/23 07:21 AM
05/09/23 07:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,988
Warren, MI
J
Jerry Offline
master
Jerry  Offline
master
J

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,988
Warren, MI
i believe at some point there was actually a 7/8 bore diameter master cylinder available too. may want to look into swapping to that.


Superior Design Concepts
2574 Elliott Dr
Troy MI 48083
jerry@sdconcepts.com
www.sdconcepts.com
Facebook page: Superior Design Concepts
www.bcrproducts.com
Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: Jerry] #3143381
05/09/23 12:56 PM
05/09/23 12:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline OP
Striving for excellence

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Originally Posted by Jerry
i believe at some point there was actually a 7/8 bore diameter master cylinder available too. may want to look into swapping to that.


I don't want increased travel.
The A body brake booster is a single diaphragm unit. The B body version is a dual. It provides double the boost. I suspect that the difference in the two will make the biggest improvement.

Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: Kern Dog] #3143453
05/09/23 05:21 PM
05/09/23 05:21 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,212
nowhere
S
Sniper Offline
master
Sniper  Offline
master
S

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,212
nowhere
I went an looked up the booster my old 96 Mustang had, V6 car 4 wheel discs.

8.732" dual diagphram.

When you say " The B body version" what does that mean, specifically. There are many years of "B body" out there.

Here's a link to an excel spreadsheet that will let you play with the booster numbers. It was in Feet's brake thread pinned at the top of this forum.

manual vs vacuum - uhcoog1.xlss the one you want

http://www.3gduster.com/brakes.html

Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: Sniper] #3143538
05/09/23 10:29 PM
05/09/23 10:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline OP
Striving for excellence

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Sorry for the confusion.
This A body booster is a single diaphragm, the 1966-70 B body booster is a same diameter but a dual diaphragm, effectively providing double the boost.

22 4 U.JPGIMG_E2300.JPGPST booster (2).jpg
Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: Kern Dog] #3146471
05/23/23 09:15 PM
05/23/23 09:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781
wine country
8
8urvette Offline
super stock
8urvette  Offline
super stock
8

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781
wine country
Man oh man I was so excited to see this thread. I started reading eagerly hoping that you found the fix for this…. Sadly we are in the same boat…. Well sort of. I have a 68 barracuda with 4 wheel disc brakes from wilwood. Their master cylinder, proportioning valve, and calipers etc…. Complete wilwood system meant for my car. Or so they claimed.
The car doesn’t stop well. I cannot lock the tires up either. I re-drilled my brake pedal to create a better pedal ratio and no change in braking performance. Wilwood was no help in trouble shooting. I went from a 15/16 manual master to a 7/8 manual master both from wilwood. I have 1100 psi at the calipers with 100lbs of pressure on the pedal.
The pedal feels great, not hard, not soggy or soft, but car just don’t stop like it should. I am waiting on a set of race pads from a friend to try out.
I have replaced every hard and soft line in the car, all couplings and tees have been replaced and no change, I even replaced my proportioning valve hoping maybe I had a defective one?!?!?

I feel you on this. My car has tripled in power but the brakes have not come along with the rest of the car. It makes me hesitant to take it on the road or even the track.

I think a booster would help but it won’t fit with the big block!!!!

Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: 8urvette] #3146606
05/24/23 01:15 PM
05/24/23 01:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline OP
Striving for excellence

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
I have been sidetracked with home repairs lately so I haven't been able to follow through with this.
My intention is to switch to a 66-70 B body dual diaphragm brake booster and see how it feels with that. I just don't have the time right now.

Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: Kern Dog] #3146639
05/24/23 03:49 PM
05/24/23 03:49 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,212
nowhere
S
Sniper Offline
master
Sniper  Offline
master
S

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,212
nowhere
Mark Williams recommends a MINIMUM of 1200psi for a 4 wheel disc setup. 1000 is for disc/drum

https://www.markwilliams.com/brake-system-pressure.html

Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: Sniper] #3146671
05/24/23 07:48 PM
05/24/23 07:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,305
north of coder
moparx Online content
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Online Content
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,305
north of coder
that's what i was thinking, 1200 or more. shruggy
then, what kind of bias do you have for front and rear tire sizes ? [or not]
when [if ?] i get my hotrod going, i have tiny diameter front tires and large by huge rear tires, so this is going to be a challenge for me to get it right, master/caliper/pedal ratio wise.
beer

Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: Sniper] #3146713
05/24/23 11:59 PM
05/24/23 11:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline OP
Striving for excellence

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Originally Posted by Sniper
Mark Williams recommends a MINIMUM of 1200psi for a 4 wheel disc setup. 1000 is for disc/drum

https://www.markwilliams.com/brake-system-pressure.html


I registered 1200-1250 momentarily but the pressure dropped off with the pedal being held firmly. That shouldn't happen, in my opinion. The pressure should remain steady or you're not keeping consistent pressure to the pads and rotors. Either my booster is leaking or the pump just craps out.

Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: Kern Dog] #3147018
05/27/23 05:55 AM
05/27/23 05:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,748
ohio
R
ruderunner Offline
master
ruderunner  Offline
master
R

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,748
ohio
Or no good master


Angry white pureblood male
Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: ruderunner] #3150154
06/10/23 07:32 AM
06/10/23 07:32 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 211
ILL
G
Greentween Offline
enthusiast
Greentween  Offline
enthusiast
G

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 211
ILL
To bad you gave up on the hydro boost. Hydro boost is a great solution. My brakes in a Challenger = Hydroboost, 11.75 dia stock slider calipers front, Ford calipers out back, 4 wheel disk GM prop valve (straight thru). Rear parking brake hooked up or not, either way. Easily skids the tires. And that's with a large bore master cylinder.

I should check the psi at the calipers with hydro boost now. Never did because it solved the problem. I'm sure its way more than 1200. When I checked my manual brakes setup with 7/8 bore it was 700 psi. When i switched back to stock power booster (single but large diameter), engine vacuum was 14 and the psi was 1200 at front caliper.

My opinion about stock booster is you need to get the vacuum up near 19-20 to get impressive brake performance.

Last edited by Greentween; 06/10/23 07:37 AM.
Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: Greentween] #3150382
06/11/23 03:34 AM
06/11/23 03:34 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline OP
Striving for excellence

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
The vacuum pump I have puts out 22 inches of vacuum.

Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: Kern Dog] #3154220
06/25/23 07:08 PM
06/25/23 07:08 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 211
ILL
G
Greentween Offline
enthusiast
Greentween  Offline
enthusiast
G

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 211
ILL
Hydroboost = 1800psi., but that's pushing the pedal harder than normal. grin

Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: Greentween] #3154275
06/26/23 12:11 AM
06/26/23 12:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline OP
Striving for excellence

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
I tried a HB system and it was an epic failure. I couldn't get the HB to build pressure and damaged 3 power steering pumps in the process.

Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: Kern Dog] #3154315
06/26/23 10:06 AM
06/26/23 10:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,404
Michigan
MarkZ Online boogie
Worthy
MarkZ  Online Boogie
Worthy

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,404
Michigan
Originally Posted by Kern Dog
I tried a HB system and it was an epic failure. I couldn't get the HB to build pressure and damaged 3 power steering pumps in the process.


What kind of pump are you using? Does it have any shims in it to reduce pressure? I'm asking because I'm thinking about going to a hydroboost setup on my car.


1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: MarkZ] #3154406
06/26/23 03:11 PM
06/26/23 03:11 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 211
ILL
G
Greentween Offline
enthusiast
Greentween  Offline
enthusiast
G

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 211
ILL

Its the stock power steering pump for a 73 challenger. I have some poorly done video's of the install on my youtube page.

https://youtu.be/xFVBDHaSEtQ

Re: Members with 4 wheel disc systems: Can you lock yours up ? [Re: Kern Dog] #3154855
06/28/23 12:23 AM
06/28/23 12:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
Originally Posted by Kern Dog
Originally Posted by racerjoe
FWIW, locking brakes doesn't decrease your stopping distance.


I know that. MY point was that if I'm not able to lock the brakes, I don't know if they are working to their full potential. If I could lock them, I'd know where that point of lock up is and brake up to just below that point


FWIW I believe max tire braking effect is when tire is turning at approx 70% of road speed. Other than maybe F1 skilled/talented drivers that is an unattainable goal for us mere mortals. Even Standard ABS does not achieve that on an instantaneous basis, but might get close on average, in that brake pressure is cycled/pulsed to a large degree. The key is not letting the tire stop or slow long enough to allow the rubber to turn effectively to liquid grease at the road contact point. I am sure there are many variables that effect the ideal limited slippage for any given situation to achieve maximum braking.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1