So the batteries lasted less than a set of tires on a normal car. I expect the battery pack cost a little more than a set of tires.

Recurrent surveyed just over 15,000 EV owners and compiled some of the most detailed battery health data ever assembled, showing that EV batteries are lasting far longer than critics and owners have anticipated. Of their massive group of owners, only 1.5% had replaced their batteries outside of a recall or warranty period. Most of those were older Nissan Leafs lacking liquid battery temperature control systems.

It's the stories like this that bother me. And even if the batteries were easier to find and cheaper the newest car I have is 9 years old.

As far as I'm concerned to make electric vehicles a viable option they need to standardize the batteries or do something that make them easier and affordable to replace because not everyone can afford to buy a new car every few years.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/gopublic/nissan-leaf-electric-vehicle-new-battery-1.5769998

The best option just my thought is electric in town gas on highway aka hybrid

Besides coming up with a universal battery, the car companies need to standardize the charging system.

it quickly degraded and flatlined as it approached 100,000 miles.

I drove a 2014 Leaf for 5 years with no noticeable reduction in battery capability. Dealers were asking more for that car when I sold it than when I bought it. First time I've had a daily driver appreciate in value as I drove it. I traded it in recently for a 2020 Leaf. The 2020 has twice the range and significantly more power as well as a ton of extra features.

I drove a 2014 Leaf for 5 years with no noticeable reduction in battery capability. Dealers were asking more for that car when I sold it than when I bought it. First time I've had a daily driver appreciate in value as I drove it. I traded it in recently for a 2020 Leaf. The 2020 has twice the range and significantly more power as well as a ton of extra features.

A neighbor of ours had a Volt and he loved it. To me Hybrids would be more realistic because at least you don't have to worry about running out of juice or the length of your drives and for local driving he was charging it with a normal outlet. Plus he said in the winter it used the gas engine to bring the heat up. But it shows how biast they are against anything that burns fuel when they push so hard for EVs.
Oh, and he was spending a fraction of what just one of my fill ups cost a year on gas so it's not like that was polluting.

You got the good Leaf! I have a 2011 Leaf I bought used about 4 years ago for $3,500. Drove it a lot but down to 8 bars and driving to work and back on a single charge is iffy (Just 32 miles). Useless. With no thermal management that 24KW battery is a dog in the desert. The prior owner replaced the battery in 2017 and its due again. Dealer said they "might" warranty (or not), but also said a new battery in today's market is $15K. No thank-you.

You got the good Leaf! I have a 2011 Leaf I bought used about 4 years ago for $3,500. Drove it a lot but down to 8 bars and driving to work and back on a single charge is iffy (Just 32 miles). Useless. With no thermal management that 24KW battery is a dog in the desert. The prior owner replaced the battery in 2017 and its due again. Dealer said they "might" warranty (or not), but also said a new battery in today's market is $15K. No thank-you.

How much of a difference in range do you see between the summer and winter months?

After seeing this topic I started thinking about stuff in general and how long it took for the general public to accept/get used to it. Computers would be a good example. Learned along ago that the first electric computer was invented around WWII time period. Yet it realistically took until the 1990s before the public got them in their houses. Airplane travel. Yes, Hitler did it in the early 1930's and it was considered very novel. But the general public in the US didn't really fly until the late 1960's- or early 70's. Phones in cars were indeed available back in the day. They cost an arm and a leg and if in a car, took up the entire trunk with equipment. Really took about 20-25 years to get out in large numbers to the public. Now with EVs there is no reason to think it will be different. They may or may not become the "Thing". If they do, we still need leaps in tech. Computers took buildings intially, phones took complete trunks. Battery tech is still not where it needs to be as going electric with current designs means using more resources than exist. Infrastructure is not really out there. The "Beta" vs "VHS" battle has not happened yet leading to standardization of even charger plugs. Could 2050 be a viable target date? Who knows but when did the gov get to decide the tech and mandate it? In fact, when has the gov actually ever done the right thing or picked the correct winners? That is not the govs job. I know the left wants the gov to make all decisions for the people but amazingly, the market tends to do a much better and more efficient job.

I've heard that with the tech, we basically have made the ICE engine about as efficient as possible. Perhaps. My 09 corolla gets 40mpg and realistically, what does a person want or expect. Personally I'd say that is good enough. I don't see tech coming along doubling that and with current fuel prices, if they did, I'm not sure of what the payoff would be. Is there a "climate change" problem? Who really knows. The climate has always changed. But what there is and will be is a a population problem. Not in the US. But look at where folks live in the world. Google it. Google world population by decade. You will see that(off the top of my head) in the US 1970 we were 220m. 50 years later we have 320m+. Think there was a disaster in Eithiopia in 1980 with a famine? Take a look at their population now. Not feasible for India/China/Africa to have US living standard. This is why the left's Climate change battle is actually not about climate, it is an anti-human campaign. Want to stop man-made climate change? End man on the planet.

Musk has previously praised the potential of this battery.

Musk is a carnival barker.

How many of his claims have not come to fruition? Either not hitting the time frame he claimed or the technology itself?

Tesla, Space X, one of the richest people in the world. That’s one hell of a carnival barker!

A fool and their money are soon parted.

I, for one, do not understand why anyone believes anything he says, much less invests money in him.

Tesla and SpaceX have repeated missed major milestones yet the money rolls in. Any other company and the stock holder would have fired the CEO long ago. How about that autonomous driving? How's that going private working out for Tesla? How about Dogecoin's valuation?

Have you ever failed? Do you have the wherewithall to keep failing upwards? More power to Musk, he will fail righteously a few more times, then look out!

I own a Volt, a 2017. Bought it used with 19,500 on the clock at "I stole it" price, currently just a tick over 50,000. Here's my take on it:

* Summer range: about 60 miles EV only. Winter range: about 48 miles EV only.
* Fuel mileage on "Hold" (engine only): 44 mpg average, with A/C on at typical Interstate speeds
* Issues to date: one set of tires at 45,000 miles, hood and roof painted surfaces are "crazing".
* My 6'3, 290lb backside fits just fine.
* For my everyday use (15 miles to work, 15 miles from work and one extra stop in town), I don't use the engine.
* Longest I've gone without refueling the car is 7 months.

We bought the Volt to replace the prior "economy car" in our fleet, a 2012 Chevrolet Cruze Eco 6-spd. That car was a headache and a money suck. So far, besides the tires, the only things I've paid for with the Volt are the tags, the fuel and the car washes.

Winter driving can be a problem for EVs since the heater, defroster, lights, seat warmers, etc. all draw down the battery. Really hot weather is also a problem since the AC sucks up a bunch of battery power. I live in NW Oregon and EVs work pretty well here since it is rarely below freezing and rarely hotter than 90 degrees.

You did good. Grabbing a short range EV when they are cheap is a great way to pick up a second or third car for a household. I loved having a short range Leaf available for running short errands or driving kids to school and stuff like that. And as you pointed out, the maintenance costs on these things is close to zero.

Spot on. I've looked at my own usage and yes, we have 10 cars, but an EV would be great for my 15 mile work commute. I have the corolla so that works too. That said, the wife has a 65 mile commute to work/65 back with no charger available. Won't work for her. I did talk to a family friend that was an early adopter buying a model S years ago. They still have it and the wife loves it. They said for the first couple of years it had a 180 range. 5 years in it was down to about 130. Still works for her with a 15 mile commute though but remember the batterys do degrade with age and use.

Years ago my Dad and I read the book “The Walmart Way” written by a friend in the Carolina Canoe Club.

There is a chapter in that book were Sam Walton was convinced to first put pharmacies in his stores even though they would lose money for the first 5 to 6 years, if “only” drug sales $ were considered.

The “upshot” to the pharmacies is that extra customers would come through Walmart’s door, and wander the aisles for awhile while waiting for their prescriptions to be ready.

I see electric vehicle charging stations in Walmart parking lots and cannot help but wonder:
is this another
“Get ‘em wandering the aisles while they wait”
ploy to boost sales?

Wife and I were discussing battery life and EV vehicle pricing tonight. She drives 135 miles a day to and from work(roundtrip). We buy a Camry LE for 27k I can and have kept them on the road for over 300k. With her rate of 36k a year we get our money out of these cars and replace them about every 8 years. Now the problem. Today I read average EV car is 60k. Battery price is what 15k. If the battery only lasts 100k that means I have to replace it at least 2X. That is another 30k added to the 60k or 90k total in 8 years vs 27k every 8 years. Yes, the batteries do degrade. My friend that was an early Model S buyer said initially the car would go 180 miles on a charge. Now 8 years later it goes 130 miles. Fine for her as she drives 30 mile round trip and husband installed a 220 charger(yep, he is an engineer). As I have said elsewhere, in 30-40 years the tech could have these batteries down to briefcase size and EVs cost may come down to be competitive. But for many, myself included, just due to cost an EV is a NO. For the wife, it is a HUGE NO.

Summer and winter is a consideration. Saw numbers but can’t remember so won’t say I know right off.

Tesla says to expect the battery to degrade at least 3% per year no matter how it is treated.

Wife and I were discussing battery life and EV vehicle pricing tonight. She drives 135 miles a day to and from work(roundtrip). We buy a Camry LE for 27k I can and have kept them on the road for over 300k. With her rate of 36k a year we get our money out of these cars and replace them about every 8 years. Now the problem. Today I read average EV car is 60k. Battery price is what 15k. If the battery only lasts 100k that means I have to replace it at least 2X. That is another 30k added to the 60k or 90k total in 8 years vs 27k every 8 years. Yes, the batteries do degrade. My friend that was an early Model S buyer said initially the car would go 180 miles on a charge. Now 8 years later it goes 130 miles. Fine for her as she drives 30 mile round trip and husband installed a 220 charger(yep, he is an engineer). As I have said elsewhere, in 30-40 years the tech could have these batteries down to briefcase size and EVs cost may come down to be competitive. But for many, myself included, just due to cost an EV is a NO. For the wife, it is a HUGE NO.

If that is for reals it confirms what I always figured that years hurt them more than miles, kinda like the lithium ion batteries in my dewalt power tools... new they are usable and work all day fast forward 5 or 6 years it will barely do one set of lug nuts before I got to swap batteries to another one that barely will do a set of lug nuts then swap back to the first one thats been charging. The batteries are not technically dead as I can still make do with them (for now) but when it is time to replace the batteries it is cheaper to buy new tools. My 92 dakota with the original drivetrain still goes basically the same exact miles on a tank of fuel as it did new where a new battery powered car would have needed at least 3 $15,000 batteries in that span even if it was only driven the same 140,000 miles.

I buy Milwaukee and Ryobi power tools because they have Samsung Li batteries inside their battery packs.
If I am actively using them I will charge them up to 100% but I always run them down below the 75% level when I know the battery is going to sit overnight or longer.

Used EVs tend to much less expensive so that is something to look at. I just picked up a used Leaf with only 7000 miles on it that was roughly 50% of new price. If you find a good deal like then your numbers might work out different.

Today’s lithium power tool (and cell phone) batteries degrade mostly only when
they are above roughly 68% of full charge.

EV makers like Tesla understand this present day lithium battery chemistry problem and limit their “full charge voltage” to about 80% to make the battery pack have a useful life that the customer will accept.

I buy Milwaukee and Ryobi power tools because they have Samsung Li batteries inside their battery packs.
If I am actively using them I will charge them up to 100% but I always run them down below the 75% level when I know the battery is going to sit overnight or longer.

I have bought a couple cheap “Chinese Knock off” Milwaukee and Ryobi battery packs that are about 40% of the Milwaukee/Ryobi prices but during testing have found that they are about 75% of their rated amp-hrs, so that if they degrade 125% faster their “bargain price” will not save any money.

I bought a 2016 Google Pixel XL cell phone.
For about a year I just plugged it in when it was below 50% and charged it to 100%.

Then on Reddit’s Google Pixel subgroup I read other user’s warnings to limit charging to 70% or less and use the app AccuBattery Pro to sound an alarm when your battery is at any % charge level you desire. AccuBattery told me my 3450 milliamp-hour had declined to 3000 at that time, but by limiting charging to 68% after six years my battery degradation slowed down a lot and has more or less stayed at 2660 milliamp hours, which gives me up to two days of use.

With EVs, power tools, or cell phones
you can extend Li battery useful life a lot
if you avoid letting the battery spend much time sitting between 68% to 100%

You can still charge to 100% if you know you are going to draw it down quickly.

Of course, Apple, Google, DeWalt, Milwaukee, Ryobi,
love the profits of selling their customers either new devices or new battery packs,
which are priced like computer printer ink cartridges.

I would like to apply your idea.

I only have 1 Milwaukee tool (I have yet to use) and no Ryobi's.

How do you know that it is at 75%?

Is there a monitor on the charger or do you know from experience on how to judge it?

If the value of all EVs drop like that Leaf, it's gonna be a damn hard sell for most folks. A 100k Lightning is worth 50k with just 7000 mi on the clock? That's a big hell no!! My 10 yr old F150 with 65K on it is still worth over 50% of what I paid for it new

Your know, sample quotes are a lot like the bits of scripture quoted by some to justify their preconceptions. Without the context it is meaningless.