Re: Survey of EV “realworld” battery lifetimes
[Re: 5thAve]
#3134838
04/03/23 06:00 PM
04/03/23 06:00 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,616 Michigan
oldjonny
Don't argue with me.
|
Don't argue with me.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,616
Michigan
|
A neighbor of ours had a Volt and he loved it. To me Hybrids would be more realistic because at least you don't have to worry about running out of juice or the length of your drives and for local driving he was charging it with a normal outlet. Plus he said in the winter it used the gas engine to bring the heat up. But it shows how biast they are against anything that burns fuel when they push so hard for EVs. Oh, and he was spending a fraction of what just one of my fill ups cost a year on gas so it's not like that was polluting. And, how many of the Chevrolet Dolts do you still see on the roads and what are used ones selling for. People avoid used hybrids like the plague.
Never, ever argue with an IDIOT. They will drag you to their level and then beat you with their years of experience
|
|
|
Re: Survey of EV “realworld” battery lifetimes
[Re: oldjonny]
#3134849
04/03/23 06:42 PM
04/03/23 06:42 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 16,096 Central Florida
larrymopar360
Stud Muffin
|
Stud Muffin
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 16,096
Central Florida
|
I'm wondering where this "real world" place is. Not here.
Facts are stubborn things.
|
|
|
Re: Survey of EV “realworld” battery lifetimes
[Re: Tom_440]
#3134881
04/03/23 07:55 PM
04/03/23 07:55 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,005 WI
Dcuda69
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,005
WI
|
I drove a 2014 Leaf for 5 years with no noticeable reduction in battery capability. Dealers were asking more for that car when I sold it than when I bought it. First time I've had a daily driver appreciate in value as I drove it. I traded it in recently for a 2020 Leaf. The 2020 has twice the range and significantly more power as well as a ton of extra features. You got the good Leaf! I have a 2011 Leaf I bought used about 4 years ago for $3,500. Drove it a lot but down to 8 bars and driving to work and back on a single charge is iffy (Just 32 miles). Useless. With no thermal management that 24KW battery is a dog in the desert. The prior owner replaced the battery in 2017 and its due again. Dealer said they "might" warranty (or not), but also said a new battery in today's market is $15K. No thank-you. I know the new batteries w/thermal management are much better but.....that thing gets a new batt every 5-6 years. What happens to the old ones? A new one is 15k so it's 5x what you paid for the car? The car ends up in the bone yard cause nobody is going to spend the money to put a battery in it. How is ANY of that scenario good for the planet?? Much like the LEDs I had put in my kitchen. 1 took a dump in a couple years. No replacement parts available, the fixture was discontinued. So instead od throwing away 1 incadescent bulb I had to replace 2 complete fixtures.....the old ones went in the landfill!! Saving the planet!!!
|
|
|
Re: Survey of EV “realworld” battery lifetimes
[Re: Tom_440]
#3134891
04/03/23 08:14 PM
04/03/23 08:14 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,203 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,203
Oregon
|
I drove a 2014 Leaf for 5 years with no noticeable reduction in battery capability. Dealers were asking more for that car when I sold it than when I bought it. First time I've had a daily driver appreciate in value as I drove it. I traded it in recently for a 2020 Leaf. The 2020 has twice the range and significantly more power as well as a ton of extra features. You got the good Leaf! I have a 2011 Leaf I bought used about 4 years ago for $3,500. Drove it a lot but down to 8 bars and driving to work and back on a single charge is iffy (Just 32 miles). Useless. With no thermal management that 24KW battery is a dog in the desert. The prior owner replaced the battery in 2017 and its due again. Dealer said they "might" warranty (or not), but also said a new battery in today's market is $15K. No thank-you. Yeah, the Leaf's had big problems with heat. I live in Oregon and kept the car in a garage so it was protected from both heat and cold. I drove my Leaf for 5 years and the battery stayed at 11 bars the whole time I owned it. Range was always right around 70 miles fully charged. The range was too short to leave town, but I could run all my errands in town every day and then charge at night. I dated a gal who lived 15 miles away and it took about 60% charge to drive back and forth to her place so I had to keep the car charged up if I wanted to go see her.
|
|
|
Re: Survey of EV “realworld” battery lifetimes
[Re: MarkZ]
#3134892
04/03/23 08:17 PM
04/03/23 08:17 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,203 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,203
Oregon
|
I drove a 2014 Leaf for 5 years with no noticeable reduction in battery capability. Dealers were asking more for that car when I sold it than when I bought it. First time I've had a daily driver appreciate in value as I drove it. I traded it in recently for a 2020 Leaf. The 2020 has twice the range and significantly more power as well as a ton of extra features. How much of a difference in range do you see between the summer and winter months? Winter driving can be a problem for EVs since the heater, defroster, lights, seat warmers, etc. all draw down the battery. Really hot weather is also a problem since the AC sucks up a bunch of battery power. I live in NW Oregon and EVs work pretty well here since it is rarely below freezing and rarely hotter than 90 degrees.
|
|
|
Re: Survey of EV “realworld” battery lifetimes
[Re: 360view]
#3134963
04/04/23 07:17 AM
04/04/23 07:17 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,329 Southern Maryland
klunick
master
|
master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,329
Southern Maryland
|
After seeing this topic I started thinking about stuff in general and how long it took for the general public to accept/get used to it. Computers would be a good example. Learned along ago that the first electric computer was invented around WWII time period. Yet it realistically took until the 1990s before the public got them in their houses. Airplane travel. Yes, Hitler did it in the early 1930's and it was considered very novel. But the general public in the US didn't really fly until the late 1960's- or early 70's. Phones in cars were indeed available back in the day. They cost an arm and a leg and if in a car, took up the entire trunk with equipment. Really took about 20-25 years to get out in large numbers to the public. Now with EVs there is no reason to think it will be different. They may or may not become the "Thing". If they do, we still need leaps in tech. Computers took buildings intially, phones took complete trunks. Battery tech is still not where it needs to be as going electric with current designs means using more resources than exist. Infrastructure is not really out there. The "Beta" vs "VHS" battle has not happened yet leading to standardization of even charger plugs. Could 2050 be a viable target date? Who knows but when did the gov get to decide the tech and mandate it? In fact, when has the gov actually ever done the right thing or picked the correct winners? That is not the govs job. I know the left wants the gov to make all decisions for the people but amazingly, the market tends to do a much better and more efficient job.
I've heard that with the tech, we basically have made the ICE engine about as efficient as possible. Perhaps. My 09 corolla gets 40mpg and realistically, what does a person want or expect. Personally I'd say that is good enough. I don't see tech coming along doubling that and with current fuel prices, if they did, I'm not sure of what the payoff would be. Is there a "climate change" problem? Who really knows. The climate has always changed. But what there is and will be is a a population problem. Not in the US. But look at where folks live in the world. Google it. Google world population by decade. You will see that(off the top of my head) in the US 1970 we were 220m. 50 years later we have 320m+. Think there was a disaster in Eithiopia in 1980 with a famine? Take a look at their population now. Not feasible for India/China/Africa to have US living standard. This is why the left's Climate change battle is actually not about climate, it is an anti-human campaign. Want to stop man-made climate change? End man on the planet.
67 Barracuda FB
69 Superbee
"Southern Maryland: If you want a good looking woman, you had better bring her with you"
|
|
|
Re: Survey of EV “realworld” battery lifetimes
[Re: klunick]
#3135525
04/05/23 09:56 AM
04/05/23 09:56 AM
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,198 here.
Remy-Z
master
|
master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,198
here.
|
I own a Volt, a 2017. Bought it used with 19,500 on the clock at "I stole it" price, currently just a tick over 50,000. Here's my take on it:
* Summer range: about 60 miles EV only. Winter range: about 48 miles EV only. * Fuel mileage on "Hold" (engine only): 44 mpg average, with A/C on at typical Interstate speeds * Issues to date: one set of tires at 45,000 miles, hood and roof painted surfaces are "crazing". * My 6'3, 290lb backside fits just fine. * For my everyday use (15 miles to work, 15 miles from work and one extra stop in town), I don't use the engine. * Longest I've gone without refueling the car is 7 months.
We bought the Volt to replace the prior "economy car" in our fleet, a 2012 Chevrolet Cruze Eco 6-spd. That car was a headache and a money suck. So far, besides the tires, the only things I've paid for with the Volt are the tags, the fuel and the car washes.
|
|
|
Re: Survey of EV “realworld” battery lifetimes
[Re: klunick]
#3135549
04/05/23 11:17 AM
04/05/23 11:17 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,943 North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,943
North Dakota
|
After seeing this topic I started thinking about stuff in general and how long it took for the general public to accept/get used to it. Computers would be a good example. Learned along ago that the first electric computer was invented around WWII time period. Yet it realistically took until the 1990s before the public got them in their houses. Airplane travel. Yes, Hitler did it in the early 1930's and it was considered very novel. But the general public in the US didn't really fly until the late 1960's- or early 70's. Phones in cars were indeed available back in the day. They cost an arm and a leg and if in a car, took up the entire trunk with equipment. Really took about 20-25 years to get out in large numbers to the public. Now with EVs there is no reason to think it will be different. They may or may not become the "Thing". If they do, we still need leaps in tech. Computers took buildings intially, phones took complete trunks. Battery tech is still not where it needs to be as going electric with current designs means using more resources than exist. Infrastructure is not really out there. The "Beta" vs "VHS" battle has not happened yet leading to standardization of even charger plugs. Could 2050 be a viable target date? Who knows but when did the gov get to decide the tech and mandate it? In fact, when has the gov actually ever done the right thing or picked the correct winners? That is not the govs job. I know the left wants the gov to make all decisions for the people but amazingly, the market tends to do a much better and more efficient job.
I've heard that with the tech, we basically have made the ICE engine about as efficient as possible. Perhaps. My 09 corolla gets 40mpg and realistically, what does a person want or expect. Personally I'd say that is good enough. I don't see tech coming along doubling that and with current fuel prices, if they did, I'm not sure of what the payoff would be. Is there a "climate change" problem? Who really knows. The climate has always changed. But what there is and will be is a a population problem. Not in the US. But look at where folks live in the world. Google it. Google world population by decade. You will see that(off the top of my head) in the US 1970 we were 220m. 50 years later we have 320m+. Think there was a disaster in Eithiopia in 1980 with a famine? Take a look at their population now. Not feasible for India/China/Africa to have US living standard. This is why the left's Climate change battle is actually not about climate, it is an anti-human campaign. Want to stop man-made climate change? End man on the planet. So enjoyable to read a thoughtful post rather than another Kunkel v. Madscientist argument about God (oops) knows what.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
|
|
|
Re: Survey of EV “realworld” battery lifetimes
[Re: 360view]
#3135572
04/05/23 12:16 PM
04/05/23 12:16 PM
|
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,511 nowhere
Sniper
master
|
master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,511
nowhere
|
Musk has previously praised the potential of this battery.
Musk is a carnival barker. How many of his claims have not come to fruition? Either not hitting the time frame he claimed or the technology itself?
|
|
|
Re: Survey of EV “realworld” battery lifetimes
[Re: Sniper]
#3135613
04/05/23 01:48 PM
04/05/23 01:48 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,910 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,910
Kirkland, Washington
|
Musk has previously praised the potential of this battery.
Musk is a carnival barker. How many of his claims have not come to fruition? Either not hitting the time frame he claimed or the technology itself? Tesla, Space X, one of the richest people in the world. That’s one hell of a carnival barker!
|
|
|
Re: Survey of EV “realworld” battery lifetimes
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#3135660
04/05/23 03:25 PM
04/05/23 03:25 PM
|
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,511 nowhere
Sniper
master
|
master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,511
nowhere
|
Musk has previously praised the potential of this battery.
Musk is a carnival barker. How many of his claims have not come to fruition? Either not hitting the time frame he claimed or the technology itself? Tesla, Space X, one of the richest people in the world. That’s one hell of a carnival barker! A fool and their money are soon parted. I, for one, do not understand why anyone believes anything he says, much less invests money in him. Tesla and SpaceX have repeated missed major milestones yet the money rolls in. Any other company and the stock holder would have fired the CEO long ago. How about that autonomous driving? How's that going private working out for Tesla? How about Dogecoin's valuation?
|
|
|
Re: Survey of EV “realworld” battery lifetimes
[Re: Sniper]
#3135680
04/05/23 04:44 PM
04/05/23 04:44 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,853 Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
Rhinotruck
|
Rhinotruck
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,853
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
|
Musk has previously praised the potential of this battery.
Musk is a carnival barker. How many of his claims have not come to fruition? Either not hitting the time frame he claimed or the technology itself? Tesla, Space X, one of the richest people in the world. That’s one hell of a carnival barker! A fool and their money are soon parted. I, for one, do not understand why anyone believes anything he says, much less invests money in him. Tesla and SpaceX have repeated missed major milestones yet the money rolls in. Any other company and the stock holder would have fired the CEO long ago. How about that autonomous driving? How's that going private working out for Tesla? How about Dogecoin's valuation? Have you ever failed? Do you have the wherewithall to keep failing upwards? More power to Musk, he will fail righteously a few more times, then look out!
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
|
|
|
|
|