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Lowering IAT with a roots #3133564
03/30/23 09:11 AM
03/30/23 09:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline OP
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Great Neck,LI,new york
I have hit a roadblock at an IAT of 160* with my roots blower @8 lbs of boost. Any more boost and the ET starts dropping off and the IAT goes up. From what I've read W/M injection will lower the IAT by 50 to 60 *.I would like more than that as 10 lbs of boost is 220*. I would like some opinions on using nitrous to cool the charge as it come out of the bottle at -130 *.I have installed the extra long injectors into the spacer plate, one in each spacer plate pointing right into the blower rotor.
Has anyone tried using NOS to intercool and how much of a drop could I expect with NOS?

871546-81e25c35372463d624f5bf4ce44a44ae.jpg871549-5f7966fd14d4147d4f8c5b451253afb9 (1).jpg881775-6d1400902921f071352aae8a7f919f37.jpg

HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: hemi-itis] #3133574
03/30/23 10:05 AM
03/30/23 10:05 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
Still wishing...
Twostick  Offline
Still wishing...

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Time for a bigger blower?

Kevin

Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: hemi-itis] #3133584
03/30/23 10:40 AM
03/30/23 10:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,550
Michigan
K
Kiddart Offline
pro stock
Kiddart  Offline
pro stock
K

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,550
Michigan
I don't know much about roots style blowers, but could you run some type of intercooler like a normal turbo setup or procharger? on the other hand a larger blower might help as well. I am interested on the reply's on this one. On engine masters this last week they did intercooler with turbos, and it did help out a bunch, just thinking this could help you.


Thank you
Kiddart
Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: hemi-itis] #3133587
03/30/23 10:58 AM
03/30/23 10:58 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,489
northern,Ohio,USA
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Clanton Offline
master
Clanton  Offline
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C

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,489
northern,Ohio,USA
You may need the blower serviced, Have you had that done lately? Valve springs? There was a test done on yt with NOS and the gain was the same as the NOS kit size.
Originally Posted by hemi-itis
I have hit a roadblock at an IAT of 160* with my roots blower @8 lbs of boost. Any more boost and the ET starts dropping off and the IAT goes up. From what I've read W/M injection will lower the IAT by 50 to 60 *.I would like more than that as 10 lbs of boost is 220*. I would like some opinions on using nitrous to cool the charge as it come out of the bottle at -130 *.I have installed the extra long injectors into the spacer plate, one in each spacer plate pointing right into the blower rotor.
Has anyone tried using NOS to intercool and how much of a drop could I expect with NOS?


GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/
Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: Clanton] #3133597
03/30/23 11:26 AM
03/30/23 11:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,362
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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an8sec70cuda  Offline
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Posts: 13,362
Marion, South Carolina [><]
I've never had a blown combo, but from what I've seen others go through...I'd absolutely go E-85.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3133600
03/30/23 11:45 AM
03/30/23 11:45 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,386
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
I bought a blower motor off a friend last year. Its a 440/450 8:1 motor that ran an 8-71 on it. He ran as much as 22lbs of boost on it. I don't have it running yet, but he ran it on E85 and loved it. I got the carbs and fuel system with it as well. Just not the blower and intake.

Not sure if I am going to run a roots on it, or go Procharger at this point yet. When I priced a roots, they told me they build to order based on the fuel. M1 uses tightest tolerance and makes the most boost, E85 uses a little more clearance....And gas uses the most clearance and creates the least boost. What is your blower setup for?

I know you drive it.....So I would run gas on the street, and E85 at the track....Which if your running carbs, can be an issue...Which brings us to where you are trying to cool IAT's with carbs on gas....Meth is the way, how to get there I guess there are different kits. Long as you kick it in when it gets up in boost...So a couple of nitrous plates and a pump and meth tank and a boost pressure switch......

I will mention a whipple 8.3L will make a lot less heat on gas.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: Dragula] #3133611
03/30/23 12:09 PM
03/30/23 12:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline OP
I Live Here
hemi-itis  Offline OP
I Live Here

Joined: Dec 2007
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Great Neck,LI,new york
I'm at 545 inches with a stage 3 1071. Have not restriped the blower bacause I'm 90% street. At the track on a hot day the best has been 9.3x @ 138 with 8 lbs. Using 2 SV1 carbs and prefer to stay on gas due to availability of E and would also have to change the entire fuel system. If I could just lower the IAT's it should slide right into the 8's.
I figure I will start with a 50 shot under each carb and see what happens. There must be someone that used nitrous to cool the charge with a few hundred HP as a by product.

thumbnail (7).jpg

HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: hemi-itis] #3133627
03/30/23 12:52 PM
03/30/23 12:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,551
Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
Mr. Helpful
CMcAllister  Offline
Mr. Helpful
C

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,551
Fulton County, PA
Not a boost guy, but I've heard of it being done. Turbos as well.

Most drag race stuff limits you to one power adder. Might have been tractor pulling circles where I read about it.

Last edited by CMcAllister; 03/30/23 12:53 PM.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: hemi-itis] #3133630
03/30/23 12:58 PM
03/30/23 12:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
Have you thought about using a Snow water met injection system to help cool the IAT down? If not maybe you should up twocents


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: Cab_Burge] #3133637
03/30/23 01:21 PM
03/30/23 01:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline OP
I Live Here
hemi-itis  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Have you thought about using a Snow water met injection system to help cool the IAT down? If not maybe you should up twocents


Cab,from hat I've been able to read ,W/M will lower the IAT upwards to 60*.The ideal IAT is 135* and mine go over 200*. With NOS coming out the bottle at minus 130* I would hope to lower my IAT by 80* or so.The HP byproduct does not hurt either!


HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: hemi-itis] #3133640
03/30/23 01:31 PM
03/30/23 01:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
polyspheric Offline
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New York
Anything combustible (gas, M100, nitrous) in a Roots system is a bomb waiting for that hung exhaust valve, backfire etc. Seen the pix of blowers going 300 feet in the air?
Turbos & centrifugals can boost only air with fuel added at the throttle body.

Look at the discharge (lower) port of a Kobelco etc. blower.
In place of the rectangular port your blower has (full length & full width of the blower case), the serious versions have a much smaller, almost triangular* port placed at the extreme forward end of the manifold.
All Eaton "M" series blowers have this.
This mod, alone, reduces IAT.

* Closest shape is a NACA submerged duct


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: hemi-itis] #3133645
03/30/23 01:50 PM
03/30/23 01:50 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,489
northern,Ohio,USA
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Clanton Offline
master
Clanton  Offline
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northern,Ohio,USA
You can check the blower case to rotor clearence yourself by getting a .010 brass long feeler and put it between the rotors with the carbs off and check the rotor to case also with a long bar [1/2"] drive on the snout.


GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/
Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: hemi-itis] #3133669
03/30/23 03:19 PM
03/30/23 03:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,023
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
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Posts: 31,023
Oregon
Nitrous will drop the temp a bunch due to the big pressure drop. You should spend some time on the phone with a nitrous expert and have them walk you thru what you'll need to do to get maximum benefit of both cooling, and power gains from nitrous. They might have a special setup for the blower. I know that I've seen turbo setups with a ring of small ports.

Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: AndyF] #3133689
03/30/23 04:43 PM
03/30/23 04:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
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Las Vegas
Problem solved and how we did it in the early 2000's to get one into the bottom 8's

https://www.holley.com/products/nitrous/service_replacement_parts/parts/13350-CBNOS


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: Al_Alguire] #3133733
03/30/23 08:07 PM
03/30/23 08:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline OP
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hemi-itis  Offline OP
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Great Neck,LI,new york
Poly; I know I'm playing in the danger zone and only intend on 50hp or so under each carb.
Mike; The strips wear a certain amount and that's it. Restriping is for the hard core racer looking for every ounce of boost. I'm a streeter with 3 or 4 track days if it's in the budget.
Andy; I will to a few nitrous companies. I figured I would ask here as there is vast Knowlege here.
Al;$1800 is NOT in the budget which is why I used two fogger nozzles for a baby shot.That octopus you pointed out is for a huge amount of juice!


HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: hemi-itis] #3133863
03/31/23 11:22 AM
03/31/23 11:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
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Posts: 19,363
Las Vegas
Been down this road and that "octopus" does a MUCH better job of accomplishing what you are after with great results. It will give you as much or as little as you need, but it distributes that much more evenly and better IMO. We tried plates as well with mixed results. Once we wen that way the street driven 8-71 small block it was on was driven to and from the track and able to run bottom 8's at will and this was in the early 2000's..


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: hemi-itis] #3133875
03/31/23 12:07 PM
03/31/23 12:07 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,489
northern,Ohio,USA
C
Clanton Offline
master
Clanton  Offline
master
C

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,489
northern,Ohio,USA
Originally Posted by hemi-itis
Poly;
Mike; The strips wear a certain amount and that's it. Restriping is for the hard core racer looking for every ounce of boost. I'm a streeter with 3 or 4 track days if it's in the budget.
I agree about the strips self clearence and that is it.When I had my blower serviced .009 is what I had the set it at but I also got new bearings so you may want to think about that. That NOS plate sure is nice but all said n done it may be close to 3k with a bottle,solinoid,tax,shipping or very close to that.Good luck figuring out what you want to do I know it aint easy.Be safe!


GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/
Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: Clanton] #3133891
03/31/23 12:45 PM
03/31/23 12:45 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,386
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline
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Posts: 12,386
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY

Last edited by Dragula; 03/31/23 12:46 PM.

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: Dragula] #3133926
03/31/23 02:32 PM
03/31/23 02:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,388
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,388
north of coder
both of those links say "sold out". shruggy
beer

Re: Lowering IAT with a roots [Re: moparx] #3133929
03/31/23 02:38 PM
03/31/23 02:38 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,386
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
I Live Here
Dragula  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,386
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
I know...Getting parts for anything right now is hit or miss...Look at tires for racing, just to see how bad it is.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
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