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438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. #3131995
03/24/23 07:15 PM
03/24/23 07:15 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712
Lake Villa Il
INTMD8 Offline OP
super stock
INTMD8  Offline OP
super stock

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Lake Villa Il
It's been about a year and half since I first ran this on the dyno.

I've had a bit of time for revisions since someone rear ended me at 40mph on the way home. Car is all fixed and completely repainted now, better than ever.

Basic combo is-

.060 over 426 so about 438ci.

MP iron block, CP pistons, 12.4-1 .043 rings. GZ vacuum pump

MP iron heads (I ported them)

Cam motion low lash solid roller 262/262 112lsa, .658 .612 measured at the valve. Morel black mamba lifters. Trend tapered pushrods. PSI 1.4" OD valvesprings with TI locks and retainers.

Holley HP efi. Edelbrock dual 4 intake, ported. 80lb deka injectors, Flex fuel

TTi 2.125 headers into dual 3" exhaust, pypes race pro mufflers out to stock style tips.



So here were the revisions between the overlayed graphs.

Added HVH 1/2" spacers under the throttle bodies

Changed stock diameter lower pulley to ASP underdrive (it was blowing belts into low earth orbit) Way too much pulley ratio for the rpm.

Switched from 20w-50 Brad Penn to 5w-30 Royal Purple XPR. Also changed to synthetic trans and diff fluid.

Rebuilt tailpipes (they got smashed) with the largest radius bends I could fit.

Last thing that I'm sure made a difference to the results was removing 15x10 steel wheels and replaced with W23-ish 15x10 aluminum wheels.

Made quite a difference! Feels awesome on the street.

[Linked Image]



















Last edited by INTMD8; 03/24/23 07:16 PM.

69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: INTMD8] #3132034
03/24/23 09:31 PM
03/24/23 09:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,857
Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
master
CSK  Offline
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Posts: 2,857
Pattison Texas
VERY cool !!!!!!!


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: CSK] #3132037
03/24/23 09:52 PM
03/24/23 09:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,764
A collage of whims
topside Offline
Too Many Posts
topside  Offline
Too Many Posts

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Posts: 20,764
A collage of whims
up
And I love the car, too.

Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: topside] #3132045
03/24/23 11:22 PM
03/24/23 11:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,264
New York, USA
Chargerfan68 Offline
pro stock
Chargerfan68  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,264
New York, USA
Yes….that is gorgeous!!!


1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: INTMD8] #3132062
03/25/23 01:12 AM
03/25/23 01:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,159
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,159
Bend,OR USA
Did you find the true peak HP RPM?
It sounded like itw as till pulling well when he back out of the throttle?
I try to find peak HP RPM and take it form 300 to 500 RPM above that to make sure the motor hasn't nosed over and then got a second breath, which I have seen more than once shock work shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: Cab_Burge] #3132064
03/25/23 01:55 AM
03/25/23 01:55 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712
Lake Villa Il
INTMD8 Offline OP
super stock
INTMD8  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712
Lake Villa Il
Thanks guys smile

Cab, it seems it peaked at 7250. It doesn't nose over hard after that but the rev limiter is set to 7650 due to driveshaft critical speed. (so pulled to limiter was about 400rpm past peak)

I could put a carbon driveshaft in it and test higher but doubt it would do anything but continue to gradually fall off. And..I think may be hard on the valvesprings and valvetrain overall if I push it to/through instability with a 2.25 steel valve.

Fwiw, the changes made were of course small but seemed to add up. When I ran it in initially and it threw belts I noticed a jump in power. Seeing that and the numbers now, I think a big part of the difference was the underdrive pulley.


69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: INTMD8] #3132067
03/25/23 03:09 AM
03/25/23 03:09 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712
Lake Villa Il
INTMD8 Offline OP
super stock
INTMD8  Offline OP
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Posts: 712
Lake Villa Il
Additionally

While I tried my best during the first dyno session, I was fighting belt issues/tossing belts.


Today, with the underdrive pulley and having no belt issues I was able to experiment a bit with timing.

The best numbers were achieved with 29deg total timing.

It would take 33deg (and more) no problem but would drop 10+rwhp in the process.


Fwiw, max power achieved at 29deg total was within 2hp at 35% alcohol and 70% alcohol.


Maybe I went to far. Basically what I'm trying to say, or what my observations are is-


-Total timing ended up lower than I expected.

-The above observation didn't change with additional alcohol. Still made the most power at 29deg regardless of alcohol content.

-Lastly, to the points above, yes I verified timing from idle to high rpm. (What is commanded is actual)


69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: INTMD8] #3132085
03/25/23 08:29 AM
03/25/23 08:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,020
Andrews,In. U.S.of A.
6
67_Satellite Offline
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Andrews,In. U.S.of A.
Very good returns for the changes made. Congratulations,and keep it between the ditches.👍

Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: INTMD8] #3132094
03/25/23 09:19 AM
03/25/23 09:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,068
Mo.
racerx Offline
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Posts: 4,068
Mo.
Nice A$$ car smoke was this video made before or after the accident.?

Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: racerx] #3132099
03/25/23 09:34 AM
03/25/23 09:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,844
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
I Live Here
ZIPPY  Offline
I Live Here

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Posts: 17,844
S.E. Michigan
She's a beauty.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: ZIPPY] #3132121
03/25/23 10:47 AM
03/25/23 10:47 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline
I Live Here
justinp61  Offline
I Live Here

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Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
Beautiful car, should be a hoot to drive too.

Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: justinp61] #3132127
03/25/23 10:54 AM
03/25/23 10:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,645
Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
Seems like a lot of power for that combo. You did good.


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: rickseeman] #3132131
03/25/23 11:09 AM
03/25/23 11:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,479
On the run…
BloFish Offline
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BloFish  Offline
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On the run…
Well done Sir, enjoy!


It really doesn't matter whether you win or lose…
as long as you look good doing it!

‘65 A100
‘69 ‘Cuda
‘73 Vega GT
‘06 Mega Cab
‘14 Mercedes SLK
Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: INTMD8] #3132149
03/25/23 12:35 PM
03/25/23 12:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,706
central il.
S
second 70 Offline
top fuel
second 70  Offline
top fuel
S

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,706
central il.
Originally Posted by INTMD8
Additionally

While I tried my best during the first dyno session, I was fighting belt issues/tossing belts.


Today, with the underdrive pulley and having no belt issues I was able to experiment a bit with timing.

The best numbers were achieved with 29deg total timing.

It would take 33deg (and more) no problem but would drop 10+rwhp in the process.


Fwiw, max power achieved at 29deg total was within 2hp at 35% alcohol and 70% alcohol.


Maybe I went to far. Basically what I'm trying to say, or what my observations are is-


-Total timing ended up lower than I expected.

-The above observation didn't change with additional alcohol. Still made the most power at 29deg regardless of alcohol content.

-Lastly, to the points above, yes I verified timing from idle to high rpm. (What is commanded is actual)







I couldn't keep a belt on my hemi. It would toss the belt the minute I hit the gas until I changed to a Dayco Top Cog belt and now I haven't thrown one even up to 7,500 rpm in over ten years. No other changes.


Mike

IMG_0636.JPG
Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: 67_Satellite] #3132171
03/25/23 01:46 PM
03/25/23 01:46 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712
Lake Villa Il
INTMD8 Offline OP
super stock
INTMD8  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712
Lake Villa Il
Originally Posted by 67_Satellite
Very good returns for the changes made. Congratulations,and keep it between the ditches.👍


Thanks guys! Will try to keep it between ditches smile Dyno video and this one were made yesterday so after the accident.



69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: INTMD8] #3132186
03/25/23 02:16 PM
03/25/23 02:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,159
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,159
Bend,OR USA
there is no better sensation (maybe there are, in the bedroom whistling) than having enough power to break the rear tires loose at speed boogie up devil
The trick is knowing when and how to drive it correctly, so you don't hurt the motor, car and yourself up Be safe, have fun up


Do you have your shift lights hooked up to the two hood turn signal lights?

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 03/25/23 02:17 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: Cab_Burge] #3132209
03/25/23 03:18 PM
03/25/23 03:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,396
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
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Posts: 19,396
north of coder
very impressive indeed ! bow
i wished my charger was 1/2 as nice as yours !
beer

Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: moparx] #3132241
03/25/23 04:29 PM
03/25/23 04:29 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712
Lake Villa Il
INTMD8 Offline OP
super stock
INTMD8  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712
Lake Villa Il
Thanks guys! It was pretty cold yesterday but I think when it warms up a bit the Avon CR6ZZ's will hook fairly decent. (road race tire with 80 treadwear rating)

Cab, yes I wired in a relay so the hood lights function with the turn signals and also as a shift light from a Holley EFI output


69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: INTMD8] #3132261
03/25/23 06:20 PM
03/25/23 06:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,835
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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dvw  Offline
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Posts: 9,835
MI, usa
Nice car. Good power. I like the shift lights.
Doug

Re: 438ci Hemi Dyno. Devil is in the details. [Re: dvw] #3132284
03/25/23 06:59 PM
03/25/23 06:59 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,387
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Dragula  Offline
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Posts: 12,387
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
I had a 484 hemi years ago....The little monster made 500hp & 500 torque to the tires with a little .630 roller cam. It was a lot of fun on tires.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
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