Reusing rings after hone
#3129398
03/14/23 04:58 PM
03/14/23 04:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 562 Kentucky
clovis
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What is the downside to reusing rings after freshing the crosshatch in a cylinder? The motor has not seen a lot of use but there are some scratches in the cylinders and on the pistons (nothing that catches a nail). I'm not sure if the motor had got hot or if there wasn't enough clearance. By my bore gauge they show .005 and they are forged pistons. The top ring are dyke if that matters.
'75 Plymouth Duster Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126 Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135 Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Reusing rings after hone
[Re: clovis]
#3129437
03/14/23 06:33 PM
03/14/23 06:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,318 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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What is the downside to reusing rings after freshing the crosshatch in a cylinder? The motor has not seen a lot of use but there are some scratches in the cylinders and on the pistons (nothing that catches a nail). I'm not sure if the motor had got hot or if there wasn't enough clearance. By my bore gauge they show .005 and they are forged pistons. The top ring are dyke if that matters. An old truck or a race engine? How much leakage is acceptable?
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Reusing rings after hone
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3129486
03/14/23 09:30 PM
03/14/23 09:30 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 562 Kentucky
clovis
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I bought the motor complete so I’m not sure about the ring material. Here are a few pictures of a piston and a couple of cylinders. It is a street/strip engine but mostly strip.
Last edited by clovis; 03/14/23 09:32 PM.
'75 Plymouth Duster Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126 Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135 Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Reusing rings after hone
[Re: Mr PotatoHead]
#3129523
03/15/23 12:09 AM
03/15/23 12:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,653 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
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Use a dingle ball hone put the engine back together with old gaskets. Get a leak down tester and if 96% or better (or 4% whichever you want to say it) let er eat. (With new head gaskets of course)
Last edited by cudaman1969; 03/15/23 12:11 AM.
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Re: Reusing rings after hone
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3129548
03/15/23 07:10 AM
03/15/23 07:10 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 562 Kentucky
clovis
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As soon as I got it home I did a compression and leak down on it. With a Mopar 590 cam in it, I got compression readings from 135 to 150, with most being closer to the 150. The leak down was between 90-92. Both readings were with the engine ice cold sitting on the shop floor. It’s an interesting engine to say the least, it has BME 426 rods, JE pistons(sit about .007 out of the hole), Dyke rings, a Crankshaft Specialist 3.388 crank, crank studs, O-ringed block, Milodon external oiling, it looks to have all the oil mods to the block. The story I got was the guys grandfather had it built by Herb McCandless quite a few years back and wasn’t run until the last couple of years and only for a short time, then they decided to go LS Turbo. When I saw the oil mods and Crankshaft Specialist crank, I thought who knows maybe it is.
At this point my plan is to hone it 180-500. I have a Lisle 1500 rigid hone with 80/180/280/500 stones. The top ring measured .016. I am just trying to decide whether I need to go ahead and order rings and if I do what ring package do I go with.
'75 Plymouth Duster Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126 Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135 Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Reusing rings after hone
[Re: clovis]
#3129553
03/15/23 07:59 AM
03/15/23 07:59 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,072 Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX
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If you run a 180 through it, I would put new rings in it. That's pretty rough, and will be like breaking in again, look at the second ring face with another break in the taper will probably be gone. Then you will get into a loss of oil control.
It really depends on what you want to do here. It really needs to be bored, honed to be put back to perfect. But if the intent is not to do that, 500 the bores and put it all back together. Anything in between that would just be a waste of time/money in my opinion.
One more thing, 500 will need considerable pressure, if using an expandable hone.
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Re: Reusing rings after hone
[Re: clovis]
#3129566
03/15/23 08:52 AM
03/15/23 08:52 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,905 Pattison Texas
CSK
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I would rather leave it alone & run it as it is than honing it with a lisle hone, you will ruin the bores with that hone
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Reusing rings after hone
[Re: CSK]
#3129585
03/15/23 10:52 AM
03/15/23 10:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,496 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
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I'd put that back together as-is and run it.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Reusing rings after hone
[Re: A727Tflite]
#3129668
03/15/23 03:36 PM
03/15/23 03:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 562 Kentucky
clovis
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I'll get some pictures tonight and post them.
'75 Plymouth Duster Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126 Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135 Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Reusing rings after hone
[Re: clovis]
#3129749
03/15/23 09:00 PM
03/15/23 09:00 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 562 Kentucky
clovis
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I noticed when I pulled the ring that the piston is cut for the ring, so I guess you have to use a dyke ring or have the piston cut to remove the ledge in the groove.
'75 Plymouth Duster Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126 Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135 Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Reusing rings after hone
[Re: Scully]
#3129758
03/15/23 09:52 PM
03/15/23 09:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,177 Michigan
A727Tflite
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Last pic, 2nd ring, says it all.
The most you would accomplish by using a hand held hone is to see if the bore etching comes out quickly. If it does, then a machine hone you will fix you right up assuming the p to wall is ok after.
Last edited by Transman; 03/15/23 09:56 PM.
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Re: Reusing rings after hone
[Re: A727Tflite]
#3129772
03/15/23 10:58 PM
03/15/23 10:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,730 Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
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Why did you tear it down? Was there a problem? You say the pistons have .005" clearance. Is that enough for those? If the piston mfg says they need more that would be good. I'm under the impression that money matters to you. If that's the case, I would find a guy with a Sunnen CK-10 (or equal) and some 220 stones, give it 20 strokes (more if you need more piston cleanance) and then 6 strokes with 400 grit for plateau. This won't get the corrosion out but it won't matter as much as you think. The present hone job is a hack. If you are on an unlimited budget I would make different recommendations.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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Re: Reusing rings after hone
[Re: rickseeman]
#3129778
03/15/23 11:30 PM
03/15/23 11:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 201 PA
Scully
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Why did you tear it down? Was there a problem? You say the pistons have .005" clearance. Is that enough for those? If the piston mfg says they need more that would be good. I'm under the impression that money matters to you. If that's the case, I would find a guy with a Sunnen CK-10 (or equal) and some 220 stones, give it 20 strokes (more if you need more piston cleanance) and then 6 strokes with 400 grit for plateau. This won't get the corrosion out but it won't matter as much as you think. The present hone job is a hack. If you are on an unlimited budget I would make different recommendations. In this situation on my CK I would use the soft 220 grit 512 stones with very light pressure and check for roundness and taper very frequently as the taper can get out of hand fast if it's not already and then the 400 818/820 as you said. With a lot of TLC it'll still be a thou bigger than it is now and you may not get all of the deep hack job out of there but it'll be much better than now.
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Re: Reusing rings after hone
[Re: Scully]
#3129784
03/16/23 12:08 AM
03/16/23 12:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,163 Melbourne , Australia
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Coat the piston skirts, have it machine honed, new set of rings. I don't think that that size ring is going to be cost prohibitive. If they were 0.8mm to 0.5mm rings, I could understand wanting to re-use them.
Alan Jones
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