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Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: 65Fury440] #3109037
01/05/23 04:19 PM
01/05/23 04:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,403
Chesterfield Twp. Mi.
J
John Burdine Offline
pro stock
John Burdine  Offline
pro stock
J

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Posts: 1,403
Chesterfield Twp. Mi.
Very cool build. Proof it doesn't have to be an A,B or E body to be a bad ass street car.

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: 65Fury440] #3109172
01/05/23 09:06 PM
01/05/23 09:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,165
Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline OP
master
Blusmbl  Offline OP
master

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Plymouth, MI
493_john, I really appreciate that. Thank you!

Originally Posted by 65Fury440

I enjoy your car and watching your progress racing. I had a 68 Sport Fury with a 383 330 hp that I did a lot of work on to race, reminds me of that car. If you are going 11s with that beast, I would forget about spending $600 on brakes and start looking for a Dana. Would be a shame to break the diff and all the other problems it can cause. Thanks for the posts!


Thank you. I've had a '67 Imperial and '68 300 in addition to the Fury, just seem to gravitate towards the big and oddball cars. The Sport Furies are cooler for sure!

Good point on the Dana. I should replace the 8 3/4 before it breaks and then also rolls the sprag in the trans. It has aftermarket Moser axles, and the converter hits pretty soft, but it's gotta be on borrowed time at this weight and power level.


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #3109174
01/05/23 09:09 PM
01/05/23 09:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 34,884
S.E. South Dakota !
bigdad Offline
Still Posting A Lot
bigdad  Offline
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Posts: 34,884
S.E. South Dakota !
neat car 8 3/4 still hanging in there ?


The lips of fools bring them strife, and their mouths invite a beating.Proverbs 18:6
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: bigdad] #3122938
02/19/23 09:26 PM
02/19/23 09:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,165
Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline OP
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Blusmbl  Offline OP
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Thread update! Weather was not crappy today, got the Firm Feel UCA's installed along with the Viking Warrior front shocks, so now the suspension is completely done! Just need to get it aligned.

Thanks to rickraw's Summit discount codes, I have a set of Trick Flow 270's on the way, ETA is sometime in June, and Wilwood rear discs to match my fronts have shown up already. I don't trust the 8 3/4 if I go any quicker and don't want to have to pull the trans every time I break it, so the plan is to order a Strange S60 this week. Was considering a 9" but the snout is about an inch shorter than an 8 3/4, so I'd need another new driveshaft, instead of my existing one getting shortened. At that point the Dana is cheaper. Planning on 35 spline axles, 4.10's instead of my current 4.30's, a truetrac, and about 1/2" narrower, so hopefully between the rear being narrower and the discs, the wheels will be easy to get on and off the car again.

I'm debating if I'm going to bolt the heads right to this shortblock. It runs great right now, doesn't have any blowby, and everything works together well. My concern is with better heads it's going to want to rev to the moon, and it still has stock weight TRW 2355's in it so I'm worried the LY rods are going to yeet themselves if I rev it much past 6500.

Option 1 is use the 270's on the 446 shortblock and run that for a couple years until my wallet recovers. I need to buy new rockers anyway, could pick up some 1.6 instead of 1.5 Harland Sharps to get the lift up to 0.630-ish, and leave everything else the same (850 DP Holley, TM7 intake, MP cam, 1 3/4" headers), and try to keep the engine speed below 6500 to reduce stress on the rods. Guessing it would pick up 4-ish tenths from the head/rocker swap, and then I could jet the nitrous up a little further which should get me solidly into the 10's.

Option 2 is to leave it as is this year, then over the winter pull it and put a lightweight 512 stroker rotating assembly in it, with main studs, new caps, fresh machinework, etc. It would also get the heads, a roller cam, MW sized intake, and I'd upgrade the headers to the 1 7/8" TTI's. It's only money, right? Lol

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Nick

ca.JPG
Last edited by Blusmbl; 02/19/23 09:29 PM.

'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #3122941
02/19/23 09:34 PM
02/19/23 09:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,835
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
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MI, usa
Nothing the matter with the existing short block. Just keep the revs down. Don't get greedy.
Doug

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #3122983
02/20/23 12:43 AM
02/20/23 12:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,255
IL
furious70 Offline
top fuel
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IL
you want the manual steering box in it before you bother aligning it, don't you?


70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: furious70] #3122992
02/20/23 07:28 AM
02/20/23 07:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,026
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Online content
master
Bad340fish  Online Content
master

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Posts: 8,026
Tulsa OK
On those rear willwoods be sure to account for the rotor had thickness in your overall width. My set the hats are 1/2" thick so it adds 1" to the WMS width. Just about screwed myself on that one, my tires fit within 1/4" and that would have been an expensive redo.

New plan sounds good, faster never hurt anyone lol.


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Bad340fish] #3122997
02/20/23 08:18 AM
02/20/23 08:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,165
Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline OP
master
Blusmbl  Offline OP
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Plymouth, MI
Thanks Doug! That's what I'm thinking for now too. Then if the shortblock ever gets hurt, then swap out the rotating assembly. Maybe 6k for shift points and then make sure it doesn't go above 6500 in 3rd.

Jeremy- definitely. I should be cruising through around easter. I also saw some tie rods that needed attention and the idler arm could use replacing too, I should do all of that at once! I assume it's gonna take at least a month for the rear to show up anyway so I have time.

Clark- thank you for the heads up. I should pull the brake kit out of the box and measure, that would've been a bad deal. My tires are as close as yours and I was hoping to get a smidge more clearance, without having them tucked in too far. A half inch out from where they are now would wreck everything, lol


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #3123003
02/20/23 08:42 AM
02/20/23 08:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,048
Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB Offline
master
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Posts: 4,048
Shelby Twp. Mi
Nice updates. I'd almost leave the motor alone and spray it where you want it. But again I'd definitely find weight loss because I'm sure there's a couple tenths to be had easy. And that weight stays off...

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #3123081
02/20/23 02:13 PM
02/20/23 02:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
GTX MATT Offline
master
GTX MATT  Offline
master

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Posts: 5,161
CT
Originally Posted by Blusmbl
Thread update! Weather was not crappy today, got the Firm Feel UCA's installed along with the Viking Warrior front shocks, so now the suspension is completely done! Just need to get it aligned.

Thanks to rickraw's Summit discount codes, I have a set of Trick Flow 270's on the way, ETA is sometime in June, and Wilwood rear discs to match my fronts have shown up already. I don't trust the 8 3/4 if I go any quicker and don't want to have to pull the trans every time I break it, so the plan is to order a Strange S60 this week. Was considering a 9" but the snout is about an inch shorter than an 8 3/4, so I'd need another new driveshaft, instead of my existing one getting shortened. At that point the Dana is cheaper. Planning on 35 spline axles, 4.10's instead of my current 4.30's, a truetrac, and about 1/2" narrower, so hopefully between the rear being narrower and the discs, the wheels will be easy to get on and off the car again.

I'm debating if I'm going to bolt the heads right to this shortblock. It runs great right now, doesn't have any blowby, and everything works together well. My concern is with better heads it's going to want to rev to the moon, and it still has stock weight TRW 2355's in it so I'm worried the LY rods are going to yeet themselves if I rev it much past 6500.

Option 1 is use the 270's on the 446 shortblock and run that for a couple years until my wallet recovers. I need to buy new rockers anyway, could pick up some 1.6 instead of 1.5 Harland Sharps to get the lift up to 0.630-ish, and leave everything else the same (850 DP Holley, TM7 intake, MP cam, 1 3/4" headers), and try to keep the engine speed below 6500 to reduce stress on the rods. Guessing it would pick up 4-ish tenths from the head/rocker swap, and then I could jet the nitrous up a little further which should get me solidly into the 10's.

Option 2 is to leave it as is this year, then over the winter pull it and put a lightweight 512 stroker rotating assembly in it, with main studs, new caps, fresh machinework, etc. It would also get the heads, a roller cam, MW sized intake, and I'd upgrade the headers to the 1 7/8" TTI's. It's only money, right? Lol

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Nick


I’m in a similar boat as you, and i’m putting the 270s on my built 446 short block (forged pistons & scat rods). The guides in my stealth heads are shot though. I bought 240s last year, then sold them for 270s. Ive had an Eddy Super Victor with MW ports on backorder since May. It JUST shipped. Summit has 4 more in stock, I’d buy one now if you can swing it.

I was just gonna run my intake for now until it came in if the intake didn’t show up before the head swap. You’d be .594 before lash if you go to 1.6 rockers. I’m only .520 with 1.5s, might go to 1.6s later. I wish I had a little more lift but I’m happy with my cam and don’t want to risk breaking in another FT, and don’t want a solid roller.

Its not going to rev to the moon with the 270s in my opinion, it will just make alot more power upstsirs. You don’t HAVE to keep revving it, but I know its hard not to!

Last edited by GTX MATT; 02/20/23 02:25 PM.

Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #3123083
02/20/23 02:37 PM
02/20/23 02:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,844
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
I Live Here
ZIPPY  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,844
S.E. Michigan
All of the potential plans sound pretty good!

Only one tiny advantage I can think of, if you were to bolt the new heads on the existing 440 you could then sell the 906s for probably 350-500 to water the money tree a little.

But then they wouldn't be available as spares anymore, if you figure you might ever need spares....so maybe not.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: ZIPPY] #3123431
02/21/23 03:14 PM
02/21/23 03:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,165
Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline OP
master
Blusmbl  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,165
Plymouth, MI
Sean - I definitely think it could use some weight loss! I was planning on switching to manual steering (especially if I put the aluminum heads on it to get 40 pounds off the front!), and was probably going to switch to manual brakes with an aluminum master which would get rid of the booster, my vacuum pump, and vacuum canister. Beyond that I'm struggling for ideas though, it already has an aluminum radiator and 4 wheel discs. I could maybe pull half of the bumper brackets off? Or start drilling holes in inconspicuous places. If somebody made a fiberglass hood I'd buy it in a second, the original has to weigh 100 pounds!

GTX Matt- thanks for the heads up on the intake. I was hoping to keep my 4150 based carb and nitrous plate kit but if there is a ton of performance to be had by switching it I'd consider it! After reading Andy's articles on his 470, comparing the 240 to 270, the 270's seemed like a no brainer. Engine Masters did the same test, the 270's were better everywhere.

I think the 0.590 cam has 0.393 lobe lift, which should be 0.628 before lash with a 1.6 rocker. I might be doing the math wrong though?

Rich- yeah, that's an enticing idea! If I pull them off and they aren't cracked I could sell the heads, pushrods and HS rockers as a package deal for sure.


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #3123474
02/21/23 05:51 PM
02/21/23 05:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,403
Chesterfield Twp. Mi.
J
John Burdine Offline
pro stock
John Burdine  Offline
pro stock
J

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,403
Chesterfield Twp. Mi.
Are you open to the idea of Kirkey seats, ditching the rear seat, maybe an aluminum fuel cell....would knock a few lbs off.

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: John Burdine] #3123496
02/21/23 07:35 PM
02/21/23 07:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,835
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
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My bet is if it need tie rods or an idler arm, it probably needs bushings all around. I have a press if you need to press them in or out.
Doug

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #3123532
02/21/23 10:22 PM
02/21/23 10:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
GTX MATT Offline
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GTX MATT  Offline
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Posts: 5,161
CT
Originally Posted by Blusmbl


GTX Matt- thanks for the heads up on the intake. I was hoping to keep my 4150 based carb and nitrous plate kit but if there is a ton of performance to be had by switching it I'd consider it! After reading Andy's articles on his 470, comparing the 240 to 270, the 270's seemed like a no brainer. Engine Masters did the same test, the 270's were better everywhere.

I think the 0.590 cam has 0.393 lobe lift, which should be 0.628 before lash with a 1.6 rocker. I might be doing the math wrong though?



My mistake, I thought you were running the 557, you got it right!

And I’m not sure in the 4150 vs 4500 carb being a gain, but enginemasters ran an XP 4150 which is dual pattern. I’m still figuring out how I will run a 4150 on the intake (which adaptor), but if you’re going to eventually go stroker I would think a 4500 will help you.

I’m not sure that the extra plenum volume on the Super Victor didn’t help EngineMasters tests, and I’m scared to run the Indy 440 2D.


Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: GTX MATT] #3123941
02/23/23 12:11 PM
02/23/23 12:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,165
Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline OP
master
Blusmbl  Offline OP
master

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Plymouth, MI
493 John- I like the bench seat but I like the idea of getting weight out of it that way. I need to start looking at what can be cut out in terms of brackets and stuff.... especially for the backseat. Nobody sits in it!

Doug, thank you for the offer. I may take you up on that. It drives fine and I didn't notice any play in the front end, but I did buy LCA bushings just in case. Looking at them, they're intact... just dry. I've also never had torsion bars out of a Mopar front end before so am a bit gunshy to do them, lol

GTX Matt- yeah, honestly it's overcammed for what it is now but with more compression and substantially better heads it should do better. The converter is loose enough that it can take advantage of it. That's a good point on the intake too, a 512 would benefit for sure from a 4500 sized flange.


'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: Blusmbl] #3123962
02/23/23 12:56 PM
02/23/23 12:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,005
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
JohnRR  Offline
I Win

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Posts: 75,005
U.S.S.A.
Originally Posted by Blusmbl
493 John- I like the bench seat but I like the idea of getting weight out of it that way. I need to start looking at what can be cut out in terms of brackets and stuff.... especially for the backseat. Nobody sits in it!



I had always wanted to gut a back seat and only keep as much framework as necessary to keep it's shape then stuff a couple of blow up pool floats to make it look like everything was still in there, same with a passenger side bucket seat .



running up my post count some more .
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: JohnRR] #3123976
02/23/23 01:35 PM
02/23/23 01:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,676
On the parachute mount
N
n20mstr Offline
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N

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Posts: 4,676
On the parachute mount
a 7/16 wrench can make a LOT of power on a nitrous deal....... bump


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: n20mstr] #3123990
02/23/23 02:15 PM
02/23/23 02:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,672
Wichita
G
GY3 Offline
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G

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Wichita
Originally Posted by n20mstr
a 7/16 wrench can make a LOT of power on a nitrous deal....... bump


Seems like I've heard this before?! shruggy grin


'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.

Re: Thoughts on what to change to run mid 11's? [Re: GY3] #3124148
02/24/23 12:06 AM
02/24/23 12:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline
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More jet and a go pro...send it.

Dvw makes a good point concerning the front end. You should do heim joint strut rods and greasable LCA pins if it gets town down that far.

Perhaps some rear air shocks for the bitchin stance?



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