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aftermarket k-member race only #3118930
02/04/23 08:50 PM
02/04/23 08:50 PM
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Mooresburg, Tn
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'72CudaRacer Offline OP
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Mooresburg, Tn
I'm looking at different aftermarket tubular K members for my E-body, but not sure which one will do what I want (if any will). Most appear to change the spindles to a mustang II style, meaning new brake kit. Anyone know of a kit that will use a tubular K member, coil over shocks (no torsion bars), stock spindles, a manual rack and no engine mounts? Drag race only.
I seem to remember someone years ago on here that had what I'm looking for, I think his business was Bondo Bob or something like that.

Thanks, Brian

Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: '72CudaRacer] #3118940
02/04/23 09:39 PM
02/04/23 09:39 PM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Pretty tough to do a rack with rear steer. Rack to pan interference is tight. Personally for the work invovled I'd either trim the stock K frame and keep the stock steering. Or go all the way and put a strut front end on it.
Doug

Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: '72CudaRacer] #3118945
02/04/23 10:17 PM
02/04/23 10:17 PM
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Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda Offline
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Originally Posted by '72CudaRacer
I'm looking at different aftermarket tubular K members for my E-body, but not sure which one will do what I want (if any will). Most appear to change the spindles to a mustang II style, meaning new brake kit. Anyone know of a kit that will use a tubular K member, coil over shocks (no torsion bars), stock spindles, a manual rack and no engine mounts? Drag race only.
I seem to remember someone years ago on here that had what I'm looking for, I think his business was Bondo Bob or something like that.

Thanks, Brian

His website is still up Here. But I think he quit a long time ago.


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: GomangoCuda] #3118949
02/04/23 10:51 PM
02/04/23 10:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
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'72CudaRacer Offline OP
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Mooresburg, Tn
[
His website is still up Here. But I think he quit a long time ago. [/quote]

Thats the one, Thanks!

Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: dvw] #3118951
02/04/23 10:55 PM
02/04/23 10:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
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'72CudaRacer Offline OP
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Originally Posted by dvw
Pretty tough to do a rack with rear steer. Rack to pan interference is tight. Personally for the work invovled I'd either trim the stock K frame and keep the stock steering. Or go all the way and put a strut front end on it.
Doug


Not wanting to have a rear steer, want to move the rack up front, to get the steering link out of the oil pan. I hadn't thought of putting strut front end under it. I'll look into that option.

Brian

Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: '72CudaRacer] #3118956
02/04/23 11:20 PM
02/04/23 11:20 PM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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If you convert to front steer you can't use the the stock steering arms/ball joints. The Ackerman will be backwards causing toe in on turns, not good. So again your back to swapping everything. Not much of a gain. Sure a little extra header clearance would make taking it apart easier. You loose a little weight with the rack. But not enough benefit to come even close to covering the cost. You could almost buy an aluminum block for the cost of the conversion.
Doug

Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: dvw] #3118969
02/05/23 12:19 AM
02/05/23 12:19 AM
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Posts: 20,149
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
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Is Gerst still building his setup?


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: slantzilla] #3118975
02/05/23 12:33 AM
02/05/23 12:33 AM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Gerst sold out to QA1. After installing onef there kits I can make three observations. One; It doesnt save much weight. Two; The outer tie rods take close to 2 " of spacer to correct bumpsteer. Three: It's about $3500
Doug

Last edited by dvw; 02/05/23 12:35 AM.
Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: dvw] #3118976
02/05/23 12:38 AM
02/05/23 12:38 AM
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fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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fredericksburg,va
Originally Posted by dvw
If you convert to front steer you can't use the the stock steering arms/ball joints. The Ackerman will be backwards causing toe in on turns, not good. So again your back to swapping everything. Not much of a gain. Sure a little extra header clearance would make taking it apart easier. You loose a little weight with the rack. But not enough benefit to come even close to covering the cost. You could almost buy an aluminum block for the cost of the conversion.
Doug

I did one in a 68 Dart 42 years ago (reversed the spindles, ran the rack thru the x member) had no problem with steering. There’s a secret to it.

Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: cudaman1969] #3118994
02/05/23 06:46 AM
02/05/23 06:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Originally Posted by dvw
If you convert to front steer you can't use the the stock steering arms/ball joints. The Ackerman will be backwards causing toe in on turns, not good. So again your back to swapping everything. Not much of a gain. Sure a little extra header clearance would make taking it apart easier. You loose a little weight with the rack. But not enough benefit to come even close to covering the cost. You could almost buy an aluminum block for the cost of the conversion.
Doug

I did one in a 68 Dart 42 years ago (reversed the spindles, ran the rack thru the x member) had no problem with steering. There’s a secret to it.


And you secret is?
Doug

Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: dvw] #3118996
02/05/23 07:04 AM
02/05/23 07:04 AM
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Posts: 4,540
Motor City
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6PKRTSE Offline
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I have one in my Challenger with a manual rack. Best part is, it was free to me. Just some manual labor that paid for it. Which was the only reason why I went with it. Otherwise, I would still be running all stock parts. I ordered mine with no tow hook, no motor mounts and no powder coating, since I painted it how I wanted everything. I run front and midplates with for/aft bars. It was close to 100 lbs of weight savings and if I remember correctly almost 2" of extra suspension travel. The adjustability of double adjustable coil overs. I drive mine on the street as well. I am able to run a flat bottom 10 quart top fuel/funny car type oil pan with no ground clearance issues. My trans pan and headers hang lower than the oil pan does. I am able to bolt in both headers from underneath with the engine installed on both sides all welded up in one piece. No multiple slip tubes to deal with since no torsion bars. Overall, I have no complaints.


1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4
2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: dvw] #3119029
02/05/23 10:36 AM
02/05/23 10:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,192
fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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fredericksburg,va
Originally Posted by dvw
Originally Posted by cudaman1969
Originally Posted by dvw
If you convert to front steer you can't use the the stock steering arms/ball joints. The Ackerman will be backwards causing toe in on turns, not good. So again your back to swapping everything. Not much of a gain. Sure a little extra header clearance would make taking it apart easier. You loose a little weight with the rack. But not enough benefit to come even close to covering the cost. You could almost buy an aluminum block for the cost of the conversion.
Doug

I did one in a 68 Dart 42 years ago (reversed the spindles, ran the rack thru the x member) had no problem with steering. There’s a secret to it.


And you secret is?
Doug

Simple, keep the tie rods from rack straight as possible out to lower ball joint arms. When one moves the rack way out front and tie rods are angled back the problems begin. Same as factory did it, in fact they’re angled forward a little. Factories spent millions figuring this out. It wasn’t perfect but we never had a problem with the outside tire flopping in on a turn.

Last edited by cudaman1969; 02/05/23 10:40 AM.
Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: cudaman1969] #3119127
02/05/23 04:23 PM
02/05/23 04:23 PM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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And you secret is?
Doug
[/quote]
Simple, keep the tie rods from rack straight as possible out to lower ball joint arms. When one moves the rack way out front and tie rods are angled back the problems begin. Same as factory did it, in fact they’re angled forward a little. Factories spent millions figuring this out. It wasn’t perfect but we never had a problem with the outside tire flopping in on a turn. [/quote]

This will not correct the Ackerman issue. The outer tie rod pivot will be way to far inward. Easy check. measure the toe. turn the wheel to full lock, then measure the toe. It will be towed in on a turn.
Drive a car with a 1/2" or more of toe i and let me know how it drives.
Doug

Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: cudaman1969] #3119128
02/05/23 04:35 PM
02/05/23 04:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,239
north of coder
moparx Offline
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unless the factory tierod arms are a rusted mess, they can be lightly heated and bent outward using a rosebud torch head and a long piece of pipe.
have a sand pile ready with a space dug out that will fit the tierod arm. after being heated and bent, get it in the sand pile as quick as possible, cover it up, and let it cool naturally.
no strength will be lost. if needed, a small spacer can be added between the tierod arm and spindle to gain a little more bend [ackerman] if needed.
this applies to the later style factory tierod arms without the ball joint attached.
like the [easily fabbed] arms used on my "eternal '33 dodge humpback project", only using factory arms on a stock K member and bending them to get the ackerman needed, along with the correct height needed to keep the rack arms parallel with the arm attaching ends.
beer

IM001314.JPGIM001313.JPGIM001449.JPGIM001376.JPG
Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: dvw] #3119157
02/05/23 06:39 PM
02/05/23 06:39 PM
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Posts: 8,192
fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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fredericksburg,va
Originally Posted by dvw


And you secret is?
Doug

Simple, keep the tie rods from rack straight as possible out to lower ball joint arms. When one moves the rack way out front and tie rods are angled back the problems begin. Same as factory did it, in fact they’re angled forward a little. Factories spent millions figuring this out. It wasn’t perfect but we never had a problem with the outside tire flopping in on a turn. [/quote]

This will not correct the Ackerman issue. The outer tie rod pivot will be way to far inward. Easy check. measure the toe. turn the wheel to full lock, then measure the toe. It will be towed in on a turn.
Drive a car with a 1/2" or more of toe i and let me know how it drives.
Doug
[/quote]
Sorry dude you have no clue

Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: cudaman1969] #3119216
02/05/23 10:45 PM
02/05/23 10:45 PM
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Oakland, MI
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dizuster Offline
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You should read up on Ackeeman angle before you go giving any more bad advice to people about flipping the tie rods to the front with stock parts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_steering_geometry

It creates a major toe problem with very little steering wheel input.

Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: dizuster] #3119226
02/05/23 11:55 PM
02/05/23 11:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
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My car has the rack in the front of the k-frame. When I got it the tie rods were basically a "Z" shape. Bump steer and Ackerman sucked.

I gave it to a buddy of mine for a makeover and now the tie rods are straight. It has fabricated steering arms on it and spacers lowering the tie rods. We slso put stops on to limit the flopping of the tire crap.


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: slantzilla] #3119234
02/06/23 07:38 AM
02/06/23 07:38 AM
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Posts: 10,009
MN
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JERICOGTX Offline
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I made my own K memeber. Uses stock lower ball joints with the arms cut off. I then welded an arm onto the spindle. Also uses stock spindles, lower control arms, and upper A arms.

Kmember1.JPG

69 GTX 68 Road Runner
Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: JERICOGTX] #3119235
02/06/23 07:45 AM
02/06/23 07:45 AM
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Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp Offline
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Are you still using the torsion bars ?

Re: aftermarket k-member race only [Re: FastmOp] #3119245
02/06/23 09:12 AM
02/06/23 09:12 AM
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MN
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JERICOGTX Offline
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Originally Posted by FastmOp
Are you still using the torsion bars ?


Yes.


69 GTX 68 Road Runner
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