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1964 Dodge 880 wobble/shakes only at take-off (0-25 mph) #3119022
02/05/23 10:07 AM
02/05/23 10:07 AM
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Baton Rouge
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64Custom880 Offline OP
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Hello,

My 1964 dodge custom 880 steering wheel and car (feels like back tires) shake when I take off. Once I go into next gear and over 30 mph, the steering wheel and back body wobble/shake stops. When I am cruising on the highway, the car drives very smooth. However, when I begin to stop, the car vibrates really bad. The car's front suspension has been done (tie rods, ball joints, bushings, etc). However, I have the original ball and trunion drive shaft and the boot is missing but I have a new u joint. I dont know the condition of my motor or transmission mounts. Lastly, I have drum brakes with one line all around. Right side rear back drum brakes gets really hot than the other drums and I can't get them off?? Should i consider a driveshaft conversion or can bad rear drum brakes cause this problem?

Last edited by 64Custom880; 02/05/23 10:11 AM.
Re: 1964 Dodge 880 wobble/shakes only at take-off (0-25 mph) [Re: 64Custom880] #3119040
02/05/23 11:25 AM
02/05/23 11:25 AM
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When I bought my 64 300, same chassis as yours, there was a wobble on occasion that was caused by the old tires on it. A quick stomp and release on the brakes would stop the wobble. New tires fixed it. I believe the tires that were on it when I bought it were bias plies, but that was a long time ago and may be incorrect. I don't remember the exact circumstances that would cause the wobble to appear.

Re: 1964 Dodge 880 wobble/shakes only at take-off (0-25 mph) [Re: Sniper] #3119050
02/05/23 12:24 PM
02/05/23 12:24 PM
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Thanks for the reply. I am definitely going to check out tires. DId you ever upgrade your driveshaft or do you still have ball and trunion? Did you still run on drum brakes all around? I am looking to convert front brakes to disc but want to keep my 14 inch rims.

Re: 1964 Dodge 880 wobble/shakes only at take-off (0-25 mph) [Re: 64Custom880] #3119068
02/05/23 01:26 PM
02/05/23 01:26 PM
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I kept the ball and trunnion, never had an issue with it even after I warmed up the 413 in it. It was a stick car too.

I converted it to discs in the front using 73 and up B/R/F/M/J body spindles and brake parts. I went with the 11.75" rotors because I had 15" rims. But you could run the smaller 10.87" setup instead. I did have to shorten the tie rod ends to get the toe correct. I went with a later 4 bolt disc master cylinder and used the donor's (79 Cordoba) proportioning valve.

Re: 1964 Dodge 880 wobble/shakes only at take-off (0-25 mph) [Re: 64Custom880] #3119097
02/05/23 02:45 PM
02/05/23 02:45 PM
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the ball and trunnion's were known for reliability and strength. With a missing boot and depending on how loung it's been that way its a possibility.

I had two cars through the shop with similar symptoms. one was a 52 Ford f100 that had no bushings left in either end the front leaf springs (Parallel). it would cause what the owner referred to as a "DEATH WOBBLE" that would randomly occur. Several places had looked at it but obviously didn't look very hard. Took me a while to duplicate it but once I did the cause was balatntly obvious once on the rack.

The second one was a 56 Ford Victoria, it had a an occasional shake with a brake pull to the right The front crossmember was rotted 3/4 over the way around with only the top part still intact.

From your description, I would get the RR brake issue sorted out ( or do the entire system) and look real hard at the rear suspension / frame. twocents beer

Re: 1964 Dodge 880 wobble/shakes only at take-off (0-25 mph) [Re: TJP] #3119105
02/05/23 03:01 PM
02/05/23 03:01 PM
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use the correct "keyed axle puller" to remove your rear drums, so as to not ruin the hub or drum. then inspect the brakes for anything unusual, especially where the shoes ride on the backing plates.
over time, they can cause divots to form there, which can cause the shoes to stick. the fix for that is to remove the plates, weld up the divots, then grind them flat so the shoes move freely on the plates.
while you have the drums off, there is a method you can use to convert your drums to be removable like modern drums.
sorry, but i don't have a link. the google will probably be able to supply you with this information.
beer

Re: 1964 Dodge 880 wobble/shakes only at take-off (0-25 mph) [Re: 64Custom880] #3119107
02/05/23 03:07 PM
02/05/23 03:07 PM
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I had shaking issues on my '64 880, too, and they were tire and brake related, but not like you described. Basically, people put the cheapest shoes on their car, and wonder why it won't stop. I had just the fronts relined at a local brake and clutch supply shop, told them I wanted the good stuff, and they worked great. Cost $60. Back were stuck like yours. I tried slide hammers, I tried "The Knocker," which is a chunk of metal you screw onto the axle shaft and hit with a sledge, and nothing worked. This did: http://www.chrysler300club.com/rcmstuff/fairbanks/puller.html I welded left and right hand lug nuts together for the left side. Then I did this to convert to slip on drums. I drilled the center of the lugs almost all the way out to the knurls so the drum wasn't damaged: http://hotrodsandhemis.com/TaperedAxleBrakes.html Drums are located by the center register, not the lug studs. For disc brakes, Scarebird had a kit that used cheap, readily available parts, but they've shut down since Covid, and I don't know if they'll start up again, so relining your shoes may be the most cost effective way to go for now.

Re: 1964 Dodge 880 wobble/shakes only at take-off (0-25 mph) [Re: 375inStroke] #3119116
02/05/23 03:36 PM
02/05/23 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 375inStroke
http://hotrodsandhemis.com/TaperedAxleBrakes.html Drums are located by the center register, not the lug studs. For disc brakes, Scarebird had a kit that used cheap, readily available parts, but they've shut down since Covid, and I don't know if they'll start up again, so relining your shoes may be the most cost effective way to go for now.


I used the same puller on my 51's drums as used in the link. It works but I had to leave it on over night with tension applied before the pass side drum finally popped. You do have to back off the shoes by going in thru the adustment access hole in the backing plate, but that's standard for any self energizing drum setup

Scarebird is having a going out of business sale. If they have it in stock they will sell it to you, if they don't they are not making any more.

The spindles I mentioned are the same height as the 64's spindles. You do have to use the donor's steering arms, which is why the tie rod ends needed shortened. The rest, except the M/C, was 70 Cordoba stuff, including the hoses. I want to say I used a 4 bolt disc M/C from a full sized Chrysler, 74ish? Used the 'Doba's combination valve, the 64's rear brakes were not changed.

Re: 1964 Dodge 880 wobble/shakes only at take-off (0-25 mph) [Re: 375inStroke] #3119141
02/05/23 05:24 PM
02/05/23 05:24 PM
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Thank You Sir ! up bow
that puller you linked to looks great ! i will have to fab one of those up, or possibly i can use my "GM to Ford" bolt pattern transfer plate i made way back around 1974 or so, at the start of my machinist career.
i could make a center "adapter plate" for it to be used on keyed axles.
i made this thing to transfer/change bolt patterns on flat mounting surface steel or aluminum wheels. i made several "adapter circles" that centered the wheels, and using the already drilled lug holes to bolt on my adapter, as well as using the center register of the wheel, i could mark and drill the opposing bolt pattern [ford to chevy 4 3/4" or chevy to ford 4 1/2"] to .003 or .004" TIR.
i looked for a picture of that thing, but i can't find it.
anyway, at that time, steel wheels got a 60 degree chamfer/seat to use stock lug nuts, and aluminum wheels got the standard 7/8" mag-style shank lug nut holes.
i was making "10 hole - Ford/Chevy" bolt pattern wheels early on, copying the dual bolt pattern found on real magnesium wheels.

Thank You again for that puller link !
beer

Re: 1964 Dodge 880 wobble/shakes only at take-off (0-25 mph) [Re: moparx] #3119148
02/05/23 05:46 PM
02/05/23 05:46 PM
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Check your local parts store for a rental puller. I know O'Reilly had them. They just charged a deposit and when you brought it back you got your deposit back the rental was free.

Re: 1964 Dodge 880 wobble/shakes only at take-off (0-25 mph) [Re: stumpy] #3119153
02/05/23 06:19 PM
02/05/23 06:19 PM
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Front U-joint or driveshaft angle problem will cause a similar sensation, but you'd feel it in your butt & not the steering wheel.
Feeling it in the steering wheel, after looking the suspension & steering over, I'd try different front wheels & tires swapped on for comparison.
Obviously go over everything including the rear axle saddle nuts to make sure everything's properly tightened.

Re: 1964 Dodge 880 wobble/shakes only at take-off (0-25 mph) [Re: moparx] #3119202
02/05/23 09:42 PM
02/05/23 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by moparx
Thank You Sir ! up bow
that puller you linked to looks great ! i will have to fab one of those up, or possibly i can use my "GM to Ford" bolt pattern transfer plate i made way back around 1974 or so, at the start of my machinist career.
i could make a center "adapter plate" for it to be used on keyed axles.
i made this thing to transfer/change bolt patterns on flat mounting surface steel or aluminum wheels. i made several "adapter circles" that centered the wheels, and using the already drilled lug holes to bolt on my adapter, as well as using the center register of the wheel, i could mark and drill the opposing bolt pattern [ford to chevy 4 3/4" or chevy to ford 4 1/2"] to .003 or .004" TIR.
i looked for a picture of that thing, but i can't find it.
anyway, at that time, steel wheels got a 60 degree chamfer/seat to use stock lug nuts, and aluminum wheels got the standard 7/8" mag-style shank lug nut holes.
i was making "10 hole - Ford/Chevy" bolt pattern wheels early on, copying the dual bolt pattern found on real magnesium wheels.

Thank You again for that puller link !
beer


I have the puller without the sledge hammer beater "wing". I have always used an Impact gun with a socket. PM Me if interested as i don't anticipate having a need for it. It's 50 + years old so no chinese junk wink
Snipers comment on leaving it under tension is one I've never tried but a good idea. wink
I've also heard of loosening the nuts a turn or two and driving the car whipping the steering wheel side to side.
They can be stubborn down
China versions are also available on AMZ and elsewahere pretty cheap PULLER LINKY

Re: 1964 Dodge 880 wobble/shakes only at take-off (0-25 mph) [Re: TJP] #3119340
02/06/23 04:13 PM
02/06/23 04:13 PM
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i have a very old snap-on puller with the "beater wing" that i bought at a garage auction back in the early 70's. it has worked well !
stubborn ones come loose using this puller if you whack the center of the puller after you put some good whacks on the beater wing, getting some good tension on the puller. i use a fabricated brass hammer i made that weighs in at 10lbs.
as to loosening the lug nuts and driving around, that works great when you come across an aluminum wheel that hasn't been off for ages.
i loosen the nuts two turns, then drive in a circle, jamming the brakes a time or two, and "pop", the wheel comes loose !
i then clean the hub register and the wheel center hole good, then apply just a smear of high temperature copper anti-seize to keep the wheel from sticking in the future.
i'm still going to make a puller like you posted before, just to stash it in my tool arsenal in case i ever need to try it out. up
beer

Re: 1964 Dodge 880 wobble/shakes only at take-off (0-25 mph) [Re: moparx] #3119425
02/06/23 09:24 PM
02/06/23 09:24 PM
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Back when lots of the taper axle Mopars were still on the road, I replaced every one of those rear ends when it came time to do brakes. I watched my boss, with lots of years experience with those axles destroy one of the axles on two different cars attempting to show me how to remove the drums. He had the proper tools, the proper equipment, and lots of experience. Back then you could easily find a 66 -70 8 3/4 rear end for $50, even then you couldn't buy a new drum that cheap.

Prices of this stuff isn't cheap anymore, but I would still swap out the rear end before I'd fight with the stupid drum/tapered axle drum removal more then 10 minutes. Loosen the nut, drive the car around the block. if it hasn't popped apart, its gone. Solves the rear trunnion as well.

Re: 1964 Dodge 880 wobble/shakes only at take-off (0-25 mph) [Re: poorboy] #3119435
02/06/23 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by poorboy
Back when lots of the taper axle Mopars were still on the road, I replaced every one of those rear ends when it came time to do brakes. I watched my boss, with lots of years experience with those axles destroy one of the axles on two different cars attempting to show me how to remove the drums. He had the proper tools, the proper equipment, and lots of experience. Back then you could easily find a 66 -70 8 3/4 rear end for $50, even then you couldn't buy a new drum that cheap.

Prices of this stuff isn't cheap anymore, but I would still swap out the rear end before I'd fight with the stupid drum/tapered axle drum removal more then 10 minutes. Loosen the nut, drive the car around the block. if it hasn't popped apart, its gone. Solves the rear trunnion as well.


100% Agreed. It is a good idea to put a non castellated nut on the axle to keep it from "mushrooming" as they will as the pressure from the puller increases especially due to the cotter key hole. I have had one that I had to take a rosebud ( torch tip) to heating the tapered portion of the hub, it finally legt go with a loud 💥. There are some earlier closed drive line vehicles that you're stuck with the setup frown

Re: 1964 Dodge 880 wobble/shakes only at take-off (0-25 mph) [Re: poorboy] #3119519
02/07/23 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by poorboy
Back when lots of the taper axle Mopars were still on the road, I replaced every one of those rear ends when it came time to do brakes. I watched my boss, with lots of years experience with those axles destroy one of the axles on two different cars attempting to show me how to remove the drums. He had the proper tools, the proper equipment, and lots of experience. Back then you could easily find a 66 -70 8 3/4 rear end for $50, even then you couldn't buy a new drum that cheap.

Prices of this stuff isn't cheap anymore, but I would still swap out the rear end before I'd fight with the stupid drum/tapered axle drum removal more then 10 minutes. Loosen the nut, drive the car around the block. if it hasn't popped apart, its gone. Solves the rear trunnion as well.


Nothing wrong wit the ball and trunnion setup. Other than it being "different" than what most are used to and more expensive to make. I have broken more U joints than I ever did a B&T and I don't even want to talk about CV joints. Heck, I twisted the front yoke of my driveshaft in the 72 Dart.

Never had a tapered axle I couldn't get apart, but it can take time and patience. Something a garage may not want to deal with. Last time I took off the 51's rear drums I got the driver's side off easy. Pass side I had to let sit over night under tension after wearing myself out beating on the puller handle with a 5lb sledge. A couple of whacks the next morning and off it popped. If it hadn't popped that easy i was going to get out the 10lb John Henry sledge, lol. Never tried the antisieze thing since the FSM says to put it together dry, I had an oldtimer buddy that had sheared the key more than once back in the day. Not sure if antisieze had anything to do with that but a second key added to the joint fixed that issue.

Re: 1964 Dodge 880 wobble/shakes only at take-off (0-25 mph) [Re: stumpy] #3119581
02/07/23 12:53 PM
02/07/23 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by stumpy
Check your local parts store for a rental puller. I know O'Reilly had them. They just charged a deposit and when you brought it back you got your deposit back the rental was free.

I tried all of O'Reilly's pullers, and just about all their rental tool stuff is made for lawn mowers. It'll bend, crumple up, strip threads, and get you nowhere. The puller I linked to worked great after trying all of O'Reilly's toys. The bolts never even felt like they were getting tight. Just keep turning a little bit in a star pattern, and it just popped off. I put a thin plate of aluminum between the axle end and puller to protect the threads.

Last edited by 375inStroke; 02/07/23 12:54 PM.






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