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Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: Mike@440Source] #3117096
01/27/23 03:43 PM
01/27/23 03:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 94
Carson City
Mike@440Source Offline OP
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I snagged the third member off eBay. It has the Daytona pinion support and 3.25" carrier bearings for the 35 spline axles. I used a Moser 1350 yoke, Strange spool, and a set of 4.30's when I set this up a couple of years ago.
This will likely get changed as the new engine will make a trainload of torque. The original build plan included a stroked 318 (390 cubes) which I sold to a friend for his dirt track car.

IMG_0832.jpg
Last edited by Mike@440Source; 01/27/23 04:07 PM.
Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: Mike@440Source] #3117101
01/27/23 04:10 PM
01/27/23 04:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,673
On the parachute mount
N
n20mstr Offline
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On the parachute mount
Originally Posted by Mike@440Source
I snagged the third member off eBay. It has the Daytona pinion support and 3.25" carrier bearings for the 35 spline axles. I used a Moser 1350 yoke, Strange spool, and a set of 4.30's when I set this up a couple of years ago.
This will likely get changed as the new engine will make a trainload of torque. The original build plan included a stroked 318 (390 cubes) which I sold to a friend for his dirt track car.


"trainload of torque" .....i guessing its a big block?? shruggy

I like these build threads, looks like a solid car up


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: n20mstr] #3117125
01/27/23 05:59 PM
01/27/23 05:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 94
Carson City
Mike@440Source Offline OP
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Mike@440Source  Offline OP
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Carson City
Originally Posted by n20mstr
Originally Posted by Mike@440Source
I snagged the third member off eBay. It has the Daytona pinion support and 3.25" carrier bearings for the 35 spline axles. I used a Moser 1350 yoke, Strange spool, and a set of 4.30's when I set this up a couple of years ago.
This will likely get changed as the new engine will make a trainload of torque. The original build plan included a stroked 318 (390 cubes) which I sold to a friend for his dirt track car.


"trainload of torque" .....i guessing its a big block?? shruggy

I like these build threads, looks like a solid car up



Thank you.
Yes, I'm putting together a solid FT 540. Pump gas, drive it anywhere, no worries about lifter link bars and rollers. GM 4L80E behind it.

Mike

Last edited by Mike@440Source; 01/27/23 08:36 PM.
Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: Mike@440Source] #3117165
01/27/23 09:37 PM
01/27/23 09:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 94
Carson City
Mike@440Source Offline OP
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Mike@440Source  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2022
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Carson City
I know there are at least a few current and former Chevy guys in here who are familiar with the ZL1 427 that was available in the '69 Camaro as a Central Office Production Order (COPO).
If Mopar were to build something similar, what do you guys think it would look like?
Indy and Trick Flow heads might look out of place, even if I were to have the ends milled to get rid of the logo. Edelbrocks look closer to the MP head, but they'd have to be ported, adding to the cost.

After a lot of consideration given to what the car was supposed to be in the first place and a few non-negotiables, this is what I'm starting with:

BMP block, 4.500" x 4.250" (540)
Lunati solid FT; 259 / 267 @.050", .586 /.606; 110LC; in @106*
EDM lifters
A set of really cool valve covers
440 Source "Super Stock" aluminum alternator brackets
Hughes stainless valley tray
CNC Stealth heads, opened to MW. >> If I want/need more power later, this is an easy change.
Mod Man w dual 750's (I have the CID to make it work)
More money in polished stainless fasteners than I care to admit. It's not a race car. It's a street car, and I like bling.


IMG_3207.jpgblock.jpg262654E7-FFA0-49E2-B775-364EE0048206.jpeg
Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: Mike@440Source] #3117181
01/27/23 10:52 PM
01/27/23 10:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 257
Alberta
4
440_Offroader Offline
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Nice collection of parts, Mike. This will be a very cool, overpowered, street car! I like it!

Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: Mike@440Source] #3117346
01/28/23 08:26 PM
01/28/23 08:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 94
Carson City
Mike@440Source Offline OP
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Carson City
Borrowed photos from FABO; I think I like this.

BA85D0B7-9A41-405B-B297-CABC90C554CF.jpeg077EDE97-B486-4966-9087-147B7A9A2E44.jpeg
Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: Mike@440Source] #3117347
01/28/23 08:27 PM
01/28/23 08:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,985
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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Mike, what is your plan for a front end, suspension? If i were to ever build another, it probably would be a strut frontend. Maybe a mustang two, but those would be my personal choices. Are you going to leave the motor in the stock position? Any setback will help, but the aluminum block REALLY helps in front/rear weight distribution. With your axle in back staying in stock location, it should still work well on the street. I bought a Dakota lithium 60ah battery, 16.5 lbs. Can be used with a 60 amp alternater. That allowed me to dump the cables to the back and mount it up front. The cables weighed 15 lbs.
I am looking forward to seeing your build progress. It will be great! By the way, i think it will probably run hi nines if it is going to use glass body parts and lightening.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: gregsdart] #3117359
01/28/23 09:15 PM
01/28/23 09:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 94
Carson City
Mike@440Source Offline OP
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Carson City
Originally Posted by gregsdart
Mike, what is your plan for a front end, suspension? If i were to ever build another, it probably would be a strut frontend. Maybe a mustang two, but those would be my personal choices. Are you going to leave the motor in the stock position? Any setback will help, but the aluminum block REALLY helps in front/rear weight distribution. With your axle in back staying in stock location, it should still work well on the street. I bought a Dakota lithium 60ah battery, 16.5 lbs. Can be used with a 60 amp alternater. That allowed me to dump the cables to the back and mount it up front. The cables weighed 15 lbs.
I am looking forward to seeing your build progress. It will be great! By the way, i think it will probably run hi nines if it is going to use glass body parts and lightening.


Greg,
I’ve considered a couple of different ways of updating the front suspension:
Option 1: the HDK setup to get rid of the torsion bars.
I really do want to go with rack n pinion steering and delete the steering box as well; that will free up a lot of space without cutting up the car.
Option 2: get out my tubing bender and fab my own K frame using the old one as a reference point, and front-mount a rack using HDK single tube lowers and SN-95 Mustang struts with a MM coilover conversion, / bearings/hubs/Wilwood brakes, and caster/camber plates from Maximum Motorsports (durable, easy to find parts)
Option 3:
Alston a-arm front end (least likely).

Engine will most likely stay in the stock location. I’ll see how it scales.
The only ‘glass I’m planning for is a AAR scoop grafted into my stock hood,
Unless I can sweet-talk VFN into building me a complete hood.

Mike

Last edited by Mike@440Source; 01/28/23 09:16 PM.
Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: Mike@440Source] #3117362
01/28/23 09:39 PM
01/28/23 09:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 94
Carson City
Mike@440Source Offline OP
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Mike@440Source  Offline OP
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Carson City
Currently on FMJ spindles with tubular uppers and Cordoba rotors:

Mike

89B69397-1849-47C2-B81E-932D884B4682.jpeg
Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: Mike@440Source] #3117524
01/29/23 03:50 PM
01/29/23 03:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,985
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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Test fitting to see where you can run headers is real important on these early A's. I first put a 440 with 906 heads in a stock 65, but had to butcher the shock towers because the head on the passenger side was way too close for headers or manifolds. I relocated the upper shock mount and built fenderwells, and to get tire turn radius i cut into the firewall behind the front tire and made abox for the four tubes. That made a fine foot rest inside the car😁 it doesn't sound like you want to cut the inner fenders, so i bring all this up so you can check now, before investing in something that won't work with the bigblock.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: gregsdart] #3117531
01/29/23 04:22 PM
01/29/23 04:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 94
Carson City
Mike@440Source Offline OP
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Originally Posted by gregsdart

“ it doesn't sound like you want to cut the inner fenders…”


Pfft…hold my glass of Merlot🍷 and pass me that cut-off wheel 😂🎉

In all seriousness, I don’t mind doing surgery on the car to make everything fit; I counted on it with this project. But it has to be done right without going full-tilt race car. I have some ideas and I’m getting antsy to get the block/heads in the car to start measuring.
Thank you for the input. It is appreciated.

A friend of mine did just what you described with the firewall on his early B-body. You can find Kevin’s build on YouTube at Griffits Garage.

Last edited by Mike@440Source; 01/29/23 04:23 PM.
Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: Mike@440Source] #3117541
01/29/23 04:54 PM
01/29/23 04:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,115
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Hooker headers use to make a set of chassis headers for BB Mopars in the early (1963 to1966 ) A bodies, that being said that makes me believe that my 1965 Dart 270 heads up drag car will get a set of big tube chassis race headers made for it once I mount the motor and trans in it late this year or next year luck
It is a race car, no street driving allowed down

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 01/29/23 04:56 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: Mike@440Source] #3117623
01/29/23 11:46 PM
01/29/23 11:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,985
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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Originally Posted by Mike@440Source
Originally Posted by gregsdart

“ it doesn't sound like you want to cut the inner fenders…”


Pfft…hold my glass of Merlot🍷 and pass me that cut-off wheel 😂🎉

In all seriousness, I don’t mind doing surgery on the car to make everything fit; I counted on it with this project. But it has to be done right without going full-tilt race car. I have some ideas and I’m getting antsy to get the block/heads in the car to start measuring.
Thank you for the input. It is appreciated.

A friend of mine did just what you described with the firewall on his early B-body. You can find Kevin’s build on YouTube at Griffits Garage.

Mike, looking forward to seeing your solutions!


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: Mike@440Source] #3117835
01/31/23 12:17 AM
01/31/23 12:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 94
Carson City
Mike@440Source Offline OP
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Posts: 94
Carson City
Making progress here and there when I can. Winter can end any day now
and I’d be ok with that…

0BE2A1DD-5F6B-499E-A86A-E58C5969C65F.jpeg
Last edited by Mike@440Source; 01/31/23 12:18 AM.
Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: Mike@440Source] #3117838
01/31/23 12:53 AM
01/31/23 12:53 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline
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Originally Posted by Mike@440Source
I know there are at least a few current and former Chevy guys in here who are familiar with the ZL1 427 that was available in the '69 Camaro as a Central Office Production Order (COPO).
If Mopar were to build something similar, what do you guys think it would look like?
Indy and Trick Flow heads might look out of place, even if I were to have the ends milled to get rid of the logo. Edelbrocks look closer to the MP head, but they'd have to be ported, adding to the cost.

After a lot of consideration given to what the car was supposed to be in the first place and a few non-negotiables, this is what I'm starting with:

BMP block, 4.500" x 4.250" (540)
Lunati solid FT; 259 / 267 @.050", .586 /.606; 110LC; in @106*
EDM lifters
A set of really cool valve covers
440 Source "Super Stock" aluminum alternator brackets
Hughes stainless valley tray
CNC Stealth heads, opened to MW. >> If I want/need more power later, this is an easy change.
Mod Man w dual 750's (I have the CID to make it work)
More money in polished stainless fasteners than I care to admit. It's not a race car. It's a street ca
r, and I like bling.



Nope...lol not a racer car. I have a few of those too. laugh

I also have a set of those bitchin blue anodized DC valve covers. My contention with placing them into service is the lack of a baffle. I had considered many different methods of attaching a baffle and more or less settled on JB Weld.

I am curious what your thoughts are there.

Also, will you being running this thing on a dyno? It will be interesting to see where it peaks hp/tq wise. With that tiny cam I assume it will peak well below 5500rpm @540" ?



Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: Jeremiah] #3117841
01/31/23 02:06 AM
01/31/23 02:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,985
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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Originally Posted by Jeremiah
Originally Posted by Mike@440Source
I know there are at least a few current and former Chevy guys in here who are familiar with the ZL1 427 that was available in the '69 Camaro as a Central Office Production Order (COPO).
If Mopar were to build something similar, what do you guys think it would look like?
Indy and Trick Flow heads might look out of place, even if I were to have the ends milled to get rid of the logo. Edelbrocks look closer to the MP head, but they'd have to be ported, adding to the cost.

After a lot of consideration given to what the car was supposed to be in the first place and a few non-negotiables, this is what I'm starting with:

BMP block, 4.500" x 4.250" (540)
Lunati solid FT; 259 / 267 @.050", .586 /.606; 110LC; in @106*
EDM lifters
A set of really cool valve covers
440 Source "Super Stock" aluminum alternator brackets
Hughes stainless valley tray
CNC Stealth heads, opened to MW. >> If I want/need more power later, this is an easy change.
Mod Man w dual 750's (I have the CID to make it work)
More money in polished stainless fasteners than I care to admit. It's not a race car. It's a street ca
r, and I like bling.



Nope...lol not a racer car. I have a few of those too. laugh

I also have a set of those bitchin blue anodized DC valve covers. My contention with placing them into service is the lack of a baffle. I had considered many different methods of attaching a baffle and more or less settled on JB Weld.

I am curious what your thoughts are there.

Also, will you being running this thing on a dyno? It will be interesting to see where it peaks hp/tq wise. With that tiny cam I assume it will peak well below 5500rpm @540" ?

I am betting on peak torque around 4800, hp about 6400. It will sound knarly, but pull like a frieght train!

Last edited by gregsdart; 01/31/23 02:07 AM.

8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: gregsdart] #3117923
01/31/23 03:09 PM
01/31/23 03:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,115
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted by gregsdart
[quote=Jeremiah][quote=Mike@440Source]
I know there are at least a few current and former Chevy guys in here who are familiar with the ZL1 427 that was available in the '69 Camaro as a Central Office Production Or
I am betting on peak torque around 4800, hp about 6400. It will sound knarly, but pull like a frieght train!

I would hope it doesn't pull like a freight train, I would want it to pull like a big powerful locomotive with no load attached, spinning the wheels at full throttle and making lots of sparks while hauling butt out of the station WOO WOO boogie grin


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: Mike@440Source] #3117924
01/31/23 03:16 PM
01/31/23 03:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline
I Live Here
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Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
That's going to be a fun little car!

Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: justinp61] #3117939
01/31/23 03:44 PM
01/31/23 03:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 46
F
Frackster Offline
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Awesome car, who makes a reasonably priced mopar to 4l80e bellhousing?

Re: '65 Dart build thread [Re: gregsdart] #3117957
01/31/23 05:30 PM
01/31/23 05:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 94
Carson City
Mike@440Source Offline OP
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Mike@440Source  Offline OP
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Posts: 94
Carson City
Originally Posted by gregsdart
Originally Posted by Jeremiah
Originally Posted by Mike@440Source
I know there are at least a few current and former Chevy guys in here who are familiar with the ZL1 427 that was available in the '69 Camaro as a Central Office Production Order (COPO).
If Mopar were to build something similar, what do you guys think it would look like?
Indy and Trick Flow heads might look out of place, even if I were to have the ends milled to get rid of the logo. Edelbrocks look closer to the MP head, but they'd have to be ported, adding to the cost.

After a lot of consideration given to what the car was supposed to be in the first place and a few non-negotiables, this is what I'm starting with:

BMP block, 4.500" x 4.250" (540)
Lunati solid FT; 259 / 267 @.050", .586 /.606; 110LC; in @106*
EDM lifters
A set of really cool valve covers
440 Source "Super Stock" aluminum alternator brackets
Hughes stainless valley tray
CNC Stealth heads, opened to MW. >> If I want/need more power later, this is an easy change.
Mod Man w dual 750's (I have the CID to make it work)
More money in polished stainless fasteners than I care to admit. It's not a race car. It's a street ca
r, and I like bling.



Nope...lol not a racer car. I have a few of those too. laugh

I also have a set of those bitchin blue anodized DC valve covers. My contention with placing them into service is the lack of a baffle. I had considered many different methods of attaching a baffle and more or less settled on JB Weld.

I am curious what your thoughts are there.

Also, will you being running this thing on a dyno? It will be interesting to see where it peaks hp/tq wise. With that tiny cam I assume it will peak well below 5500rpm @540" ?

I am betting on peak torque around 4800, hp about 6400. It will sound knarly, but pull like a frieght train!


I am planning on a dyno session, but it will be a while before this thing is put together. Meanwhile, I'll attempt to make some progress on the car itself.
The cam is listed on Lunati's website with a power range of 3000-7200 based on a 440. I think Greg is pretty close on the performance in the bigger engine. Something that is fun from 2500-6500ish is what I'm after.
This profile was picked because I didn't want to run more than .600" lift, and I felt the duration was about where it needed to be for how it would be used 90% of the time. That the lobe design was spec'd by UDHarold is a bonus.

https://www.lunatipower.com/voodoo-solid-flat-tappet-cam-chrysler-361-440-288-296.html

Mike



Last edited by Mike@440Source; 01/31/23 05:33 PM.
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