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Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: fastmark] #3116124
01/24/23 06:51 PM
01/24/23 06:51 PM
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clarks summit pa
73cuda340 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by fastmark
If my memory serves me correctly on the two I have installed, they both took special mods. These were stage V valve covers but they are probably the same. We used the stock k frame on both of these cars. One had Arruzza mounts. It was a 68 charger. All we had to do to it was put a 1/4” steel plate spacer between the rubber and the steel mount. It cleared. The e body had Schumacher mounts and the first one did not come close. He called Schumacher and they had a special mount to raise the right side. It still may have taken a spacer, I’m not sure. I’ve got a picture on my phone I’ll try and post. The 65 SS cars had a right side shock tower that was modified and recessed right at the point wher the shock bolts to the tower. The valve covers cleared, you just could not pull them off for the tech inspector at the track. I know you said you have a hemi k frame but my point is you will have to space the right side higher in order for it to fit. This picture is after the mod. I don’t have a picture of the valve cover but it was about the same.


For the spacer, did you put it between the rubber mount and engine or the rubber mount and the k member.


1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip, (JA5) Silver Frost Metallic 1973 Challenger Rallye 340 1985 W150 Power Ram prospector 1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: 73cuda340] #3116327
01/25/23 07:18 AM
01/25/23 07:18 AM
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Abilene, Texas
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fastmark Offline
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I put it between the rubber mount and the steel part of the engine mount. Take the rubber biscuit by itself, get some 1/4”plate the size of the rubber and drill a big hole for the bolt then bolt the steel part that goes to the block.

Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: fastmark] #3116492
01/25/23 05:40 PM
01/25/23 05:40 PM
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north of coder
moparx Offline
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this may be way off base, but did you try an adjustable PVC valve on your engine ? [i think m.e. wagner makes those]
i bought two of them for my project engines [one for my charger's 440, the other for my "humpback" delivery that will have a ??? stroker engine], but i am nowhere near ready to try these to see what they may, or may not, do according to wagner's description on their web site.
beer

Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: moparx] #3116505
01/25/23 06:21 PM
01/25/23 06:21 PM
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clarks summit pa
73cuda340 Offline OP
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Yes, I installed one of the adjustable pcv valves. It did seem to help a little bit, but it still leaks. Another issue is that the engine is only making about 4" to 5" of vacuum at idle, so I'm not getting the full benefit of the pcv valve drawing out any extra crankcase pressure


1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip, (JA5) Silver Frost Metallic 1973 Challenger Rallye 340 1985 W150 Power Ram prospector 1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: 73cuda340] #3116511
01/25/23 06:52 PM
01/25/23 06:52 PM
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north of coder
moparx Offline
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as you have experience with the adjustable PVC valve, what kind of difference did it make ?
i know each combination is/will be different, i'm just curious as to how that affected your combination as it is now.
a vacuum pump may be in your future. you might try an electric GM pump first, as they are relatively [?] cheap compared to other brands, and you may be able to grab a used one from a yard near you if possible, to see what a pump will do with your combination.
thank you for keeping us informed of your progress.
beer

Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: moparx] #3116541
01/25/23 08:27 PM
01/25/23 08:27 PM
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clarks summit pa
73cuda340 Offline OP
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It seemed to have less blowby and the leak wasn't as bad. Gene, the guy who makes the valve, suggested I run the valve at full flow to give me the most ventilation possible due to the size of the engine. I have considered a vacuum pump, but I viewed it as a band aid to the problem. It shouldn't be leaking at all.


1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip, (JA5) Silver Frost Metallic 1973 Challenger Rallye 340 1985 W150 Power Ram prospector 1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: 73cuda340] #3116575
01/25/23 10:15 PM
01/25/23 10:15 PM
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Omaha Ne
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Originally Posted by 73cuda340
Originally Posted by 71birdJ68
What kind of issues are you having with the engine?


The engine only has 150 street miles on it, zero track time or full throttle blasts and absolutely no beating on the car, and it has already had 6 different rear mail seals installed in it, 4 by me and 2 by Ray himself, 2 different real main seal retainers, and it just pours oil to the point it can't even be driven. Tons of blowby coming out of the breathers , 2 different sets of piston rings installed in it, same issues and this was all at my expense on a brand new engine. I told them I still have the same issues after pulling out the engine 3 different times and going back and forth all the way to their shop just to basically be told tough luck. If you would like to know more about it, I can PM you details. I don't want it to look like a post about me bashing someone or a company.


WOW, that's surprising to me down Did they dyno the motor ? Blow by is only caused by one thing, combustion pressure leaking into the crankcase. I'd be a bit less understanding with the assumed $$ involved. I'm smelling fan

Even my Cummins built motor didn't have blowby or leaks. The first two did flatten the cams but they were promptly repalced and i was well compensated twocents

Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: TJP] #3116596
01/25/23 11:09 PM
01/25/23 11:09 PM
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clarks summit pa
73cuda340 Offline OP
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Yes, the motor was dynoed and they claimed that it didn't leak while it was running, however within the first minute of running after reinstalling the engine, there was a puddle of oil on the floor. I'm not sure if something is machined wrong with the block or if it is still blowby that is causing the leak. I unfortunately had to accept my loss in getting it fixed by them and eat the Bill. I'm just trying to keep moving forward and get it straightened out so that I can enjoy the car.. That's still my main issue to fix once I get the motor to sit correctly and the clearance issues solved.

Last edited by 73cuda340; 01/25/23 11:12 PM.

1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip, (JA5) Silver Frost Metallic 1973 Challenger Rallye 340 1985 W150 Power Ram prospector 1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: 73cuda340] #3116683
01/26/23 11:05 AM
01/26/23 11:05 AM
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Midwest
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I had some luck with a Graph Tite rope seal, was not 100% leak free but was 99.8%.

Last edited by fuseable; 01/26/23 11:05 AM.
Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: 73cuda340] #3116736
01/26/23 02:00 PM
01/26/23 02:00 PM
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A Banana Republic near you.
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Originally Posted by 73cuda340
I'm not sure if something is machined wrong with the block or if it is still blowby that is causing the leak.


There might be , I remember back around the time we did the Enginemasters challenge that Dan (member PerformanceOnly) was telling me about a rear main seal leak he had on one of his customers build , it was a member here I think, that ended up being the rear main seal bore or cap being slightly off set in the block ... the only way to see it was to have the crank out though .


running up my post count some more .
Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: 73cuda340] #3116743
01/26/23 02:31 PM
01/26/23 02:31 PM
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Omaha Ne
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Originally Posted by 73cuda340
Yes, the motor was dynoed and they claimed that it didn't leak while it was running, however within the first minute of running after reinstalling the engine, there was a puddle of oil on the floor. I'm not sure if something is machined wrong with the block or if it is still blowby that is causing the leak. I unfortunately had to accept my loss in getting it fixed by them and eat the Bill. I'm just trying to keep moving forward and get it straightened out so that I can enjoy the car.. That's still my main issue to fix once I get the motor to sit correctly and the clearance issues solved.

I am sorry to ask, but is there more to this story than we have been made aware of? I ask as this started out as valve cover issue that now has evolved into a substantial rear main leak as well as a substantial blowby issue all of which should have been caught on the dyno confused shruggy I have never heard a bad thing about barton until this post shruggy

Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: TJP] #3116809
01/26/23 05:41 PM
01/26/23 05:41 PM
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clarks summit pa
73cuda340 Offline OP
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It's been a problem since the first 50 miles of driving and is still ongoing. I was only answering a members question in this post about what issues I've had with the engine. I said I would PM anyone if they were that interested in the issues I've had because I didn't want to change the topic of the valve cover clearance issues and also, I'm not the type of person to go bad mouthing someone online. I can send you a private message about that if you care to know more. Thanks for everybody's help so far, I appreciate it.


1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip, (JA5) Silver Frost Metallic 1973 Challenger Rallye 340 1985 W150 Power Ram prospector 1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: 73cuda340] #3116859
01/26/23 09:10 PM
01/26/23 09:10 PM
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Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: 73cuda340] #3116871
01/26/23 10:00 PM
01/26/23 10:00 PM
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Annapolis, MD, USA
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#1 - The valve covers are not made by Barton. They are Stage V products branded as Barton.
#2 - I have them in an E-body with a Debivec k-frame.
#3 - I had both inner fenders cut and rewelded. A V-cut with a horizontal slice above. Weld up the shock hole, redrill stud hole approx 1 inch toward outer fender. Still close, but clear. I did my homework before I specified those covers.

Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: Vert] #3116914
01/27/23 01:38 AM
01/27/23 01:38 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Hemiroid motors, what problems are YOU talking about whistling grin devil


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: Cab_Burge] #3117113
01/27/23 04:55 PM
01/27/23 04:55 PM
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clarks summit pa
73cuda340 Offline OP
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Are the any alignment issues involved with the drive train when installing the spacers on the mounts?


1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip, (JA5) Silver Frost Metallic 1973 Challenger Rallye 340 1985 W150 Power Ram prospector 1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: 73cuda340] #3123170
02/20/23 09:11 PM
02/20/23 09:11 PM
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clarks summit pa
73cuda340 Offline OP
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I ended up installing a 1/4" thick shim on the passenger side mount as recommended and the valve cover no longer hits the inner fender or blower motor. However the drivers side is still not even close to fitting. I went to install the manual steering box and the drivers side still has about a 3/4" gap between the mount and the k member but it can't drop down any further because the header tube is not even close to clearing the steering box. TTI claims they fit both power and manual steering cars and these headers won't even come close to clearing the tiny manual box. I'm not sure if it's defective engine mounts or the headers, however on thing I am convinced is that all of these companies charging top dollar for their products are putting out complete junk products. Of course I can return any of these parts either, more money that I have to eat.

20230220_185437.jpg

1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip, (JA5) Silver Frost Metallic 1973 Challenger Rallye 340 1985 W150 Power Ram prospector 1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: 73cuda340] #3123194
02/20/23 10:34 PM
02/20/23 10:34 PM
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If you haven't already done so, Try removing the shim on the R side, It may be causing the steering box / header issue. IF so may require modifying the valve cover as previously mentioned , keep us posted beer

Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: TJP] #3123237
02/21/23 12:34 AM
02/21/23 12:34 AM
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clarks summit pa
73cuda340 Offline OP
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The steering box hits the header both with the shim and without.


1973 Cuda 528 all aluminum Hemi, 4 speed, 3.23 Sure-Grip, (JA5) Silver Frost Metallic 1973 Challenger Rallye 340 1985 W150 Power Ram prospector 1986 Camaro IROC-Z 305 tpi
Re: Hemi ray barton valve covers in e body [Re: 73cuda340] #3123247
02/21/23 04:42 AM
02/21/23 04:42 AM
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Abilene, Texas
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fastmark Offline
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I don’t have any more advice to give you. I used the shumaker mounts with TTI headers and the driver side fit fine. The 1/4” spacer on the pass side was all I needed. No header issues at all.

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