After I delivered the old engine to Gdemon because Dizuster wanted it painted. I flipped the KB block onto the stand and started mocking things up for a new engine...

Next, some of the think-tank team ?needed? to have a meeting over the holidays. Me, Steff, DVW, Shaun Meyer, Dartin in CW order. It was at least 6 hours long, lol. Kinda of impromptu but, a good showing on short notice over Christmas break.

Those valve covers are bada$$ and worth some power for sure. Looks like a gnarly think tank to me

I just had to throw the Predators on the block and see things like pushrod angles, etc and was hoping to get some primary header trajectories started but I wound-up getting sick for about a week. High-ports!

lol

Realistically, I'm running out of time to get something together so, it's between one of these piston/rod/head combo's that can reuse the trans/converter/headers and gears I have.

More mock-ups, more 'problems'...

Home-made 'lifter-lash' tool.

Looking good! Out of curiosity what numbers are you seeing, what do you consider bad?

Excellent question and i have to use an asterisk to explain. I could say 'it depends' and be right too. Any OEM roller bearing wheel I have measured they typically wear-in and loosen .0002" from new and when they move after that they are on there way to failing. I have measured a few Comps with an .820" wheel and these in pic are Isky .850" wheel. TYPICALLY, I see about .0005" (plus or minus .0001") to start. I have done so many OEM to gage, that you'll see as much variation 'operator to operator' as .0002" even with me measuring i may get some lifters that 'start' at say .0006 and the next time i measure it'll get .0005" It's when they get close to .0009" + that it'll concern me. BUT again I've seen some START about .0008" Hope this makes sense!

I see the finger pointing. What is the issue?
Doug

Can’t wait to see it finished and the results!

Preditors versus B1? It must be a given the predators could be set up with superior hp potential, yet still run a cam that won't beat everything to death. Also the non paired exhaust is a big benefit i would think, keeping heat more even between the center cylinder exhausts promoting better valve seal. What goals do you have for power, engine size, rpm range? I am guessing a predator motor could be set up to have 1100 hp and yet still have reasonable number of runs between rebuilds/ maintenance?

Thanks Wes. I really just need to get the car up and running again to learn and have some fun. These were the pieces I had long set aside when i was thinking "the fastest I'll ever want to go and afford ...8.50 chassis etc" This is your old block from the Dart FWIW. Greg, these are 440-1 Indy's that were cnc'd at Modern many years ago with 2.25" Ti valves and minor hand work. I can't get the Predators up to speed in time with new valves etc. (they need refreshening) and my current PG trans would 'cry like a little girl' if i put an 'easy on parts' Predator combo on it. It'll be legal for NA 10.5 or my local tracks 'all-motor' class which has rules that correct for different combos. The -1 combo can weight 2775 lbs at 480" I'm trying to make as much power as i can with the parts I have, I don't care how high it has to RPM. Speaking of cams I can't find anyone with a wedge 55mm 4/7 swap so, I'll be running this 'less than ideal' cam that has no additional material for regrinding. It only has a .480" lobe on it so, that will be one bottle-neck.

I have a 54mm Bullet 4/7 swap cam that was in my 588, if your willing to switch bearings. are your running Babbit, or roller?

It is 55MM babbit .Wasn't aware there is such a bearing, i assume it has the same OD but a smaller ID? Was this in a B1? I sent you a PM.

That's a rowdy looking group of gearheads right there.


The valve covers are a classic institution of the 1970's Direct Connection catalog. While I am sure they won't be used in the final rendition you see them on some bery successful race cars in old pictures.

I really dig that roller lifter lash tool. Can you put some simple blue prints on a napkin and post it?

I think the "just have fun" approach is healthy. Not being the competitive type my time at the track is more of a social event. If racing goes okay that is a bonus lol. Days off of work shouldn't be successful!

Moving forward,.you really need to get aluminum valve covers and trim those studs before dvw does something crazy like install a fiberglass hood. : D

Anything you can seat the lifer on ‘square’ this has 2 surfaces that locate. Having an ‘adjustable’ seat makes it modular for other lifters. Then mount a high resolution indicator in a way that pics up the centerline of the wheel and then pry the wheel to gage lash…verify it repeats and viola! He’s using old school M/T aluminum covers with a -12 vacuum fitting welded in place. Some of the stuff in pic was to ship it.

Just cause here is some pushrod pics on my Predator junk we are still trying to finish up. Hemi block Predator stuff takes a bit more work to get clearance for sure. Supposed to be a "better" version, but not seeing it.

LOL. Nice! That motor's pieces have quite a few new adoptive parents! Good luck with it!!!

The Predator has some nice features that include what is overlooked when you consider 'horsepower potential' any given cylinder head has. It was hard to take those off and put on the lowly -1 stuff.

the pushrod to lifter Clearnce looks a little scary Al

It is close for sure, but can slide a piece of paper in there The picture makes it look much closer than it is, should be plenty of room there but time will tell for sure. Consequences of a big pushrod and a tie bar lifter. Should have gone to a keyway deal but this is just a bracket engine. Not anything crazy for sure.

Thank you for the instructions. I will post a pic or two of what I come up with.

Awesome seeing the progress! Think you'll have it together in time for the May 5th heads up race at Milan?

That's the plan, much to do!

I love the old DC valve covers, but then again I'm pretty hopeless in that regard. Very confident it will be a screamer, whichever combination is chosen.

Could you explain why you used the insert verses a heli-coil?

Thank You

In a word, that insert is more robust than a heli-coil. I left it up to the person that machined the head to make the call on what to use. From what i have HEARD the threads tend to rip-out when using no insert and just tapping the aluminum. So while a guy is here, may as well put something in there.

To minimize the confusion on a few posts. This was my old engine BEFORE REPAINTING by Gdemon, reconfigured mechanically from the way i used it in a few ways. These are the valvecovers he is using.

I have always heli-coiled pretty much everything aluminum (and even some old Stage 5 cast iron) but after seeing your pictures i got to thinking maybe heli-coils weren't always the way to go. i have both types on hand.

Thank you for the reply.

I did the same thing as Sean with inserts. Actually Time-Serts. The reason for doing mine was to move the T&D bed plate outward .060" towards the valves. Since the Time-Sert is a larger diameter it made sence. The holes were offset bored. Then the inserts were able to be installed with no welding of te original holes.
Doug

So just for clarity here, I'm not sure where Doug's heads were initially machined (on what centerline) but if you move MINE, TOWARDS THE VALVE, it crashes the pushrod into the head! I'm just clarifying for anyone who might convert their heads to paired rockers with bolt-down stands. I can tell you we are using the same lifter seat height. A taller lifter seat would move the pushrod away from the head. ANOTHER VARIABLE is if the rockers had a different pivot but had the same ratio. But we also have the same rocker bodies! I can only assume with confidence that my original point of reference was on the same plain as the factory holes used for the original 5 'pedestal' holes. your results may vary lol

Mine were mounted in the original plane. Some of the original holes were just drilled deeper. When we moved them .060" toward the valve they only required minor trimming for the pushrods.
Doug

On my B1 heads, with T&D paired (5/8 shaft) rockers, I had to enlarge the pushrod holes away from the valves. Scott Koffel told me ahead of time this is needed, but not with the long single shaft rocker system.

Not sure what some of this has to do with the price of tea in China!? I can tell you on these heads now, with this cam, lifters, pushrods, 1.6 pivot/1.7ratio TD rocker system and 5.344 valve length with an .080" lash cap the centerline for the rocker bar hold-downs needs to move some away from the valve to allow for more lift. Getting the sweep adjusted optimal, moves the pushrod further into the head AND BOLT/STUD besides all that moving the centerline towards the valve compromises the angularity on the backside of the rocker. I'm probably sweating nothing here? but with open loads over 1000lbs and rpm over 8000, it isn't going to be a bracket build from my perspective.

To clarify "Getting the sweep adjusted optimal" is done in this case, by milling the rocker bar pad down further. So, it "...moves the pushrod further int..."

Having two different 'near-ready' (piston-rod-head-intake) combos to consider, I choose the one that would be the fastest to commission. I'm using 440-1 Indy's which Jeff CNC'd many years ago, this is using a used flat-top piston (DVW) that was designed for a 4.500 bore and now this KB block is 4.5065. Line2Line is currently coating the skirts and I had Rebco add vertical gas ports to pistons which had lateral ports already. I have to mention Rebco was great to me again, turning them out hours after getting them on the same day! And he's 'cheap'. Scott Brown cut me a new 55mm 4/7 swap cam with about .840" NET lift intake, he's still around and has been helpful as always. Isky also turned around my lifters quickly and reasonable, they are .937 bearing/ .850 wheel offset intake which is a BBC spec lifter body, PICS previous in this thread. I am reusing the 2x4150 (thumper) Indy T/R, Jesel drive and complete dry-sump oil system from my last engine. I had a local machinist friend remachine the pedestal area to make the best rocker geometry I could using the parts I had which are 1.60 pivot 1.7 TD paired rocker system. I had to tickle the heads spring seat about .010 to get .065 from coil bind. My spring loads are marginal light 340/850 and am using titanium 2.25" intake valves. They have about .060 P-2-V with checker springs on the intake and .100 exhaust. I have .045 piston to head cold. Manton is currently making the pushrods 7/16x.168 with a taper at the lifter end to clear the offset lifter body. My block is o-ringed so i surgically removed the SS orings (DIFFICULT!!!) and am currently installing copper then filing down flush to fill the cavity. I hope to make enough HP to run near the chassis cert (8.50) @ 2825lbs when everything is right.

In an act of desperation I put a request for a 55mm thrust bearing on FB and Jim Clarke (aka TS3103) came thru the next day so i could do some mock-up work. Thanks JIM!

Used a SBM hub to position the 'zero' where i could use it and made a new pointer.

Manton PR 'example' and B1 piston modeling

Fitting new o-rings before I file them flush and guard-dog pic.

So I take it the B1 piston valve reliefs will work with your Indy 440-1 heads?
Did you take a picture of the clay after turning the motor over?

Hey Jim! The pics are confusing because I was considering the domed B1 pistons with the other package 572-13 top-end. The pic was taken AFTER i spun it over with about .060 piston to 572-13 head cold...plenty of dome to chamber room.

Just to not add any confusion because of other assembled engine pics on this post. This is what the engine will look like when done, the only visual difference will be the aluminum block...

at least your guard doggy isn't asleep...........
a question though, why a small block damper on a big block, although you have the timing mark where you need it. was the reciprocating assembly balanced using that damper, or are the damper weights the same [or close enough] to be able to be swapped ?
just trying to learn something here.

It's a neutral balance damper...i just wanted to locate the ZERO in a visible place.

thank you sir.

Removed old SS .045 o-rings from deck...that was fun? Replaced with copper and filed down flush...

Because the new Scott Brown cam I went ahead and made the geometry as good as i could. Which, as mentioned earlier, required a few other 'adjustments' including rocker stand bolt shortening. One protruded in the port roof the others were for the paired rocker hold-downs on the stand themselves.

The stand hold-down bolts on the ends were an odd-ball head diameter and short-height so i ordered some longer ARP 7/16 from Allens fasteners and trimmed them on the lathe.

After sorting this all, I ordered some 7/16x.168" straight-wall pushrods from Manton with .040 restrictors. I had an intake manifold flange from my buddies 1400HP single-4 565" BBC and laid on the deck-surface to gage why his makes so much more power than my 440-1's (in the background)

I pressure tested the 'repaired' KB block to learn it had a few significant leaks and a small crack. Then the fun stuff started as i was welding repairing it the gas quit working/flowing on my old Lincoln square-wave., Once I got that working again I was chasing leaks and cracks. I think that's finally done but yesterday after the last welding i didn't do a final leak ck.

I took the block over to a better welder with better equipment, the external leak is fixed now but it had small leak now around the sleeve into the crankcase so I got creative. After a good cleaning/prep, I vacuumed Loctite 280 into the area.

Moving along I mocked-up the old intake to port match which took a little grind/widening and then a little epoxy because the new heads have a large radius at the corners..

Opened bores to near 4.500

During leak test the deck surfaces appeared to be leaking? So i hand-lapped both heads decks smooth/the fun that was.

Installed height was not measuring 'right'. I found the spring seats were interfering at the radius of the guide. Once that was fixed, I had to touch each intake seat about .010" to get spring coil bind where I was comfortable.

Lots of ways to skin a cat but this pic probably needs no explaining. Got to have ACV daily!

More diff ways to skin a cat, I use 2 of the upper row head bolts to anchor the head to bench and use the typical in-car jesel spring tool. Also tailored the rocker bar bolts to length on the lathe.

Not real happy with the total ring-pac but the oil ring drags at 14lbs now/close enough. Recip spinning is 20lbs with the 'top-fuel' rear main installed FWIW

Swap meet GRP's needed some detailing and I polished the pins.

Think I mentioned TS3103 Jim gave me a thrust washer for the Jesel belt but the ID was way too big. I used it for mock-up, then I opened up my old std. washer to 55mm. (because Jesel doesnt make the washer in 55mm ID) That took a little patience to do.

Lastly, currently I have to disassemble the shortblock because I didnt measure crank endplay during mock-up and it's only got .003" SOAB! It's getting really hard to be motivated lately because it's so late in the season. But I still keep plugging away LATE for some reason.

The old NMCA Real Street class rules used to have a weight adder determined by how raised off the deck surface the intake port floor was. Thought that was a pretty clever way of trying to even things out. Looking good!

Thanks Bob! Yes, one of the many rules considers port floor from the deck. There's no way you could make parity by rules to make the stuff I choose to use to be 'competitive'. Last night, I got it apart then sanded .004 form the front thrust surface, the recip is back in and I have .007"!!!

NMCa still uses that in the rules for NA10.5. Seperates heads in to categories for weight based on distance off the deck. As well as a few other things

You are good with a file.

Wow.
Lots of details and attention / care.

lots of good machinist "inventive thoughts" used here.

Thanks guys! To a good number of people I'm a hillbilly when it comes to 'fixing' issues. But like I've said, more than one way to skin...I don't mind sharing the things i consider important, there are a good number of people still on this board that share and help just the same. It all just takes time. For one reason I share a cheaper way to measure and fix things for the guy that has more time than money. But there's a value in learning to do it yourself. In hindsight probably a lot of things i've done, I might've bought the better tool or part in the beginning.

i'm guilty of spending more time and effort "inventing" something, when for a few bucks, what i'm "inventing" can be bought and my time saved.
growing up around depression era family does that to a guy.

Heads are on. I noticed Cometic doesn't punch holes for the lower passages in the block so, I got out my punch kit for 12 holes. Because I have reverse cooling, I thought it was a good idea. Once everything was assembled I did a quick leak test.

A lot of build work done this weekend with typical unexpected works. I used to pull a stage from the valley and reused this cover so I had to cut a relief in the chinawall area when I learned I'd need the clearance.

A new ATI damper shifted both FEAD pulley alignments out so, that's getting some attention now. I got a little too generous with rtv on the Jesel shim pac and had to take that apart because it squeezed into the bearing! (Found it verifying assembled cam lash) New pulleys for the oil pump for 61% drive speed targeting the max recommended pump speed. Installed a AN fitting in the distributor plug hole for quick venting during warm-up. Verified assembled lifts, ICL and lash adjustment which I figure to be about .016" tighter than hot values.

That's crazy how clean that came out, it almost looks like the groove has been somehow welded with copper wire.

Lol...patience grasshopper. Now hopefully it seals!

I'm considering painting the block and heads black...

Looks good as is!

Would look better with different heads

Thanks again everyone! Noone in their right mind would argue there.

But you dont need those fancy valve covers. I know a guy who could thoough Even send oyu some nice fabbed aluminum ones maybe even a tunnel ram

Headers and plug changes look like FUN on that!

Headers aren't really bad! These were made by Ernie M (local guy) for John Burdine For a B body RB engine. John was generous to sell them. Six of the eight are almost a bolt-in and two need remade. I didnt check for plug access but it can't be bad? IDK And I won't know soon because I took that mock-up out last night to make room for the KB/440-1 install! I have to say I owning and handling the Predator stuff now makes me reevaluate (at this point in time/race season's is over) why I'm playing with the 'inferior' top-ends.

One of the differences on this block is lack of china-wall oil ports which i was using for my idiot light sensor and to feed valvespring oilers. So my idea is to use the NPT ports on the side of the block, I'm always open to other suggestions... Apparently someone didn't want anyone EVER to remove these internal hex NPT plugs because they cranked them in all the way to China! I assume it's because they didn't want to use any NPT sealer so, tight is right? IDFK So, I had to get creative because tapping-in the metric oversize allen wrench still stripped out the hex, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

I made a little shockproof tab mount for the psi sensor and valvecover feeds. Also used a port in the side of the block for oil temp. I added magnetic tipped NPT plugs in the ports which is a nice feature...not that I'll need it?!

Since I had to increase my oil pump speed, (it's an older NASCAR pump I converted from 6 to 5 stage and it uses a small pressure section) I clearanced the oil pan and pump mounts for more belt travel/adjustment and Jones pulleys sent me a couple new gilmer belts ( always get a spare) . This 'fix' created a new problem because the fittings underneath now collide with the rack and pinion mount...always something!

But it's in the car now! Hopefully accessorized and running after another few days of work. I tried to do as much as I can to minimize any assembly with the engine in the car because, I've found it's faster and less frustrating and better executed in-general. But sometimes, things are such a tight fit, you just need the engine in the car.

Just some updates and since the season is over the priority is shifted on better detailing and less shot-gun work. You'd think because i basically reused the oiling system and transmission that I wouldn't have to reengineer related stuff...New lines and routing allow easier belt tension and access while speeding up the old pump to near it's rpm limit.

In the meantime, I decided to upgrade the collectors from 3.5 to 4" and added o2 bungs (tight packaging)

Somewhere else (on another post?) I shared where I put my OFA which has a mechanical gage clocked so i can see it when i prime the oil.

Also under the same theme of correcting things that were marginally functional before, I took care of some wiring because it's easier to access thru the trans tunnel (with no trans). For some reason the Holley system has a NOISY tach signal until higher RPM/on the converter. So they sold me a 'filter' guess we'll see how that works!

In consideration of the scaling-up, in addition to porting the intake to the larger heads, I also made a larger plenum spacer. I'll probably swap-out the 1.38 downleg airhorns to some 1.59 annulars I bought quite a few years ago with the thought they'd lend themselves to oxygenated fuel better.

Also for posterity, when using a powerglide etc. it appears you're pretty much going to have to figure out flexplates, midplates, converters and starters as you go. The block, the crank and etc are all variables.

Almost forgot! I really should have sorted-out the alternator on the stand but in my haste I was going to skip running one altogether and convert to 16V. I did buy a 20lb lighter 16V battery but since the season is over I sunk the alternator into the motorplate.

I also couldn't live with the coil being red so I painted it.

Hey are you doing cars shows or racing? Come on now.
Doug

Says this guy

Looking good. And the glide, BBM thing has gotten kinda out of hand. I have never really had many issues with this before but dang sure do now....Looking good!!

Nice valve covers,I believe those covers once belonged to Tom Debartalo. I believe the guy you bought those from, I sold a set of new T&D rocker stands to. There is one set left of billet covers that were never used to my knowledge .. he is or was a member here,the guy in Australia that used to run drag week with a silver Predator headed drag drive car. as far as I know he never use them, might do some foot work if someone wanted a pair. I still do on the program for these if I was able to sell five sets, I could have more made

Thanks guys! Yes, I've bought a few hand-me-downs from Tom and a few people in this thread! Because I'm doing some welding along with a few electrical changes, I like to remove all grounds to avoid the possibility of the HV backfeeding misc components. So I snapped a few pics to anyone that may benefit!

Definitely love our Billet Predator Valve Covers, Tony (Boatracer572) did an AWESOME job!!! RC

It's getting close! Snapped a pic but it looks pretty similar to before...

Wow looking great HC!

When is the tentative test session?

Thank you! Racing starts next weekend so I hope to be out there tested somewhat. The firesystems are built to order and 'charged' just prior to ship so that won't be available prior. I'm also working on a bolt-in passenger-seat area to house 'obsolete' 25# weight plates to reach min weight.

I hear Milan is racing next weekend

You are correct sir!

Looks outstanding!

Thanks Don! Maybe we'll see you out this year?

I plan to be at 131 all of Memorial Day weekend. Probably be my first outing.
Gonna go to 42 first week of August for Mopar event( be my first time there)
Norwalk in Sept for Mopar deal
London, Ky early Oct for Mopar event, and probably several regular bracket race deals as time/ work allows.
Yea, would love to see that deal of yours go down the track. Bad hombre.