Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rod ends in the steering linkage #3105294
12/24/22 05:50 PM
12/24/22 05:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 906
Washington
H
hemienvy Offline OP
super stock
hemienvy  Offline OP
super stock
H

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 906
Washington
I'm considering using a rod end (heim joint) on the steering arm in place of a tie rod end (ball joint).

Is this use considered safe for "street use" by the brain trust on here ? Some "racing" mods are not streetworthy.

"Depends how big it is", obviously a bigger rod end would be stronger, say 3/4" thread on the shaft.

Re: Rod ends in the steering linkage [Re: hemienvy] #3105295
12/24/22 05:55 PM
12/24/22 05:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,362
Out of the State of Confusion
blue_stocker Offline
pro stock
blue_stocker  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,362
Out of the State of Confusion
I'm seeing more stock/super stock racers using them but personally, for a street car and insurance purposes, I'd stick with the OEM set-up, just so the bottom feeders (insurance folks) don't feed on you, if you know what I mean?! Just my 2 cents...wb

Last edited by blue_stocker; 12/24/22 06:15 PM.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson

Freedom must be repurchased by every new generation
General Daniel Jones, WW2 Tuskegee Airmen
Re: Rod ends in the steering linkage [Re: hemienvy] #3105299
12/24/22 06:12 PM
12/24/22 06:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,750
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,750
Rio Linda, CA
The C-body rod ends are 11/16" and many reportedly use them on B and E-Bodies.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: Rod ends in the steering linkage [Re: blue_stocker] #3105300
12/24/22 06:12 PM
12/24/22 06:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,105
Byron, NY
W.I.N. Racing Offline
top fuel
W.I.N. Racing  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,105
Byron, NY
they are very susceptible to wear from dirt and debris


'01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60
'01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust,
'05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list
'60 Willys CJ5
'01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison
'64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd
Re: Rod ends in the steering linkage [Re: W.I.N. Racing] #3105302
12/24/22 06:16 PM
12/24/22 06:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,750
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,750
Rio Linda, CA
They do make protective rubber boots for Heim joints "Raceboots"?


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: Rod ends in the steering linkage [Re: hemienvy] #3105316
12/24/22 07:23 PM
12/24/22 07:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
polyspheric Offline
master
polyspheric  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,206
New York
Can't say if they're safe, but they have a limited range of misalignment in degrees.
You need to know what your suspension does at maximum travel, and make sure your bump stops are closer than the Heim limits.
As JK says, boots are a great idea, why make this mod visible to an insurance adjuster...


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Rod ends in the steering linkage [Re: hemienvy] #3105365
12/25/22 04:01 AM
12/25/22 04:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,986
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
master
gregsdart  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,986
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
A hiem joint as a rod end uses a straight bolt, unlike a factory rod end that uses a tapered seat to secure it and make wobble impossible where it conects to the center link or steering arm. Even a slight bit of tolerance at this juncture is a place for ware to start, and leads to seviere slop eventually. If you choose to use a hiem joint with high angularity ( enough for full travel!) Then the bolt or shaft that goes through the rod end should have at least three times its diameter in support where it passes through the steering arm.
I discovered a serious wobble in my dart because i used a 1/2 inch bolt and only about one inch of support at the steering arm. The hole in the steering arm was seriously egg shaped from wear over the years . If you can find a pin with a 7 degree taper ( mopar factory taper) or similar, then use a reamer to produce the proper hole in the steering arm, with enough thickness for support It will be mutch better. Also the pin that would have the tapered end will also have a tighter fit in the rod end. Off the shelf bolts often have maybe an extra . 002 or .003 clearance, or reduced diameter, which is going to allow some movement that you don't want. Check out Speedway Motors hotrod suspension parts, thay may have parts to fit your app.

Last edited by gregsdart; 12/25/22 04:14 AM.

8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Rod ends in the steering linkage [Re: gregsdart] #3105389
12/25/22 10:08 AM
12/25/22 10:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,826
MI, usa
dvw Offline
master
dvw  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,826
MI, usa
I used the Speedway 7 degree taper studs and their high misalignment rod ends (5/8"). A small amount of material (.060") needed to be removed from the lower side of the steering arm so the taper seated before the hex portion touched the steering arm. The joints have more than enough travel. I did replace the joints after 10 years. Only one of the ends had any movement which was minor. I split the stock tie rod sleeve and used a steel threaded tube (5/8"x18) for the outer portion. The QA1 kit I installed last year needed a 5 1/2" bolt to get the rod end even close for bump steer. Just installed a Hotchkiss kit for a friend. The ends didn't have enough travel and bound up.
Doug

20200320_190912.jpg
Last edited by dvw; 12/25/22 10:18 PM.
Re: Rod ends in the steering linkage [Re: hemienvy] #3105401
12/25/22 10:58 AM
12/25/22 10:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
T
Thumperdart Offline
I Live Here
Thumperdart  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
I just installed the QA-1 k member, lower arms, Hotchkis heimed uppers and heimed tie rod ends on my Dart and they are awesome and if you buy the boots and grease kit, they will last damn near forever.....


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Rod ends in the steering linkage [Re: Thumperdart] #3105433
12/25/22 01:06 PM
12/25/22 01:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,531
Fulton County, PA
C
CMcAllister Offline
Mr. Helpful
CMcAllister  Offline
Mr. Helpful
C

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,531
Fulton County, PA
Race car use? 1/2" rod ends. Auroras. Good ones, not the stamped 2 piece junk. Bore the arm and bush it to the correct size. Misalignment bushings/sleeves to correct geometry. Grade 8 hardware or better.

Everyday street use? Probably not.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Rod ends in the steering linkage [Re: CMcAllister] #3105508
12/25/22 05:25 PM
12/25/22 05:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,355
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,355
north of coder
Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Race car use? 1/2" rod ends. Auroras. Good ones, not the stamped 2 piece junk. Bore the arm and bush it to the correct size. Misalignment bushings/sleeves to correct geometry. Grade 8 hardware or better.

Everyday street use? Probably not.




i would agree with everything except maybe the 1/2" size. my preference would be for 5/8 or 3/4". that's just me.
and using the lined, high strength, precision ends can't be stressed enough. use them in ALL suspension locations, front or rear.
beer

Re: Rod ends in the steering linkage [Re: moparx] #3105523
12/25/22 07:05 PM
12/25/22 07:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Offline
master
Bad340fish  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021
Tulsa OK
I don't use any Heim joints in my steering but I have them on my upper RMS arms and strut rods. They have been on there 12 years, have been all over the country on 8 drag weeks, and lots of just miscellaneous street use and drag racing. They are still super tight. They don't have any boots or anything on them.


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
Re: Rod ends in the steering linkage [Re: Bad340fish] #3105876
12/27/22 10:59 AM
12/27/22 10:59 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 656
Florida
CJD AUTOMOTIVE Offline
mopar
CJD AUTOMOTIVE  Offline
mopar

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 656
Florida
The bump steer correction kits, that have been sold for decades, all use a rod end in place of the tie rod end. Lots of reputable companies sell them for road use ,so I think you'll be fine. Some kits include the drill/ream to make the bolt hole as well. You'll also get the bonus of fixing these old cars' inherently horrible bump steer.


Craig Scholl
CJD Automotive, LLC
Jacksonville, FL
www.CJDAUTOMOTIVE.com
904-400-1802

"I own a Mopar. I already know it won't be in stock, won't ship tomorrow, and won't fit without modification"






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1