Re: Why didnt Mopar offer the 440 with dual quads?
[Re: A12]
#3103761
12/19/22 09:13 PM
12/19/22 09:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,930 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
Itch Nutz
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Itch Nutz
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,930
fredericksburg,va
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What were the warranty periods and mileage for the 440 engines over the years of fitment? It seems that the standard and the HP 440's had a 5-year/50,000 mile warranty but not the 426 Hemi or the '69 440 A12 cars. I know the 1969 A12 3X2 Lift-Off-Hood cars had a limited 12-month or 12,000 miles with a special sticker placed in the owner's manual stating the "Same as the 426 Hemi engine" but did 1970/1971 440+6 engine equipped cars also limit the warranty to 12 month/12,000 miles ?? Would dual quads or 3X2 carburetors really make a reliability issue by 4-years and 38,000 miles......maybe down a drag strip at a quarter mile at a time all day and night long. Just can't see the carbs being a warranty period issue. What am I missing? RPMs and intended racing use. No warranty on clutches either. I know at our shop (Dodge) if they found you were racing ANY engine they would refuse warranty claims. 5-50 was normal driving. My friends 68 GTS 4 speed 340 cam ecentric broke, they refused service, said he was racing it. He got his lawyer cousin to have a talk, they fixed it.
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Re: Why didnt Mopar offer the 440 with dual quads?
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3103773
12/19/22 09:45 PM
12/19/22 09:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,782 N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
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N.E. OHIO, USA
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What were the warranty periods and mileage for the 440 engines over the years of fitment? It seems that the standard and the HP 440's had a 5-year/50,000 mile warranty but not the 426 Hemi or the '69 440 A12 cars. I know the 1969 A12 3X2 Lift-Off-Hood cars had a limited 12-month or 12,000 miles with a special sticker placed in the owner's manual stating the "Same as the 426 Hemi engine" but did 1970/1971 440+6 engine equipped cars also limit the warranty to 12 month/12,000 miles ?? Would dual quads or 3X2 carburetors really make a reliability issue by 4-years and 38,000 miles......maybe down a drag strip at a quarter mile at a time all day and night long. Just can't see the carbs being a warranty period issue. What am I missing? RPMs and intended racing use. No warranty on clutches either. I know at our shop (Dodge) if they found you were racing ANY engine they would refuse warranty claims. 5-50 was normal driving. My friends 68 GTS 4 speed 340 cam ecentric broke, they refused service, said he was racing it. He got his lawyer cousin to have a talk, they fixed it. Be a difficult thing to prove if the car was COMPLETELY stock and someone didn't see you at the track blowing up IMO. I street raced and went to several different drag strips back in '69 and at the beginning the my '69 Road Runner was completely stock. Then I put Hooker headers on it and a "cool can" for the fuel line, and a CDI ignition box (Mark 10) on it and that may have given it away. But I and my friends were smart enough to have removed those things before we would have had it towed to the Plymouth dealer if we hoped to get warranty on it. I'm sure others did the same thing including mechanics that worked at dealerships. Most of the dealers were on the side of their customers when it came to warranty if they could get their customers some help, at least in my neighborhood and not just the Mopar dealers. You had a better chance of getting warranty with a 727 automatic than a 4-speed IMO, seems most of the blown engines that I remember was from that MISSED SHIFT from 2nd to 3rd.......
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Re: Why didnt Mopar offer the 440 with dual quads?
[Re: A12]
#3103778
12/19/22 10:22 PM
12/19/22 10:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,827 541 slobovia
A990
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
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541 slobovia
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You had a better chance of getting warranty with a 727 Heard a story about someone wanting a 396 4 speed Nova, but his hometown dealer had a no 4 speed musclecar ban in place. They considered those to be warranty magnets.
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Re: Why didnt Mopar offer the 440 with dual quads?
[Re: 2boltmain]
#3103948
12/20/22 01:13 PM
12/20/22 01:13 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 44,050 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 44,050
Bend,OR USA
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All the in line dual quad engines that Mopar built that I have seen all came with cast iron single plane intakes Dodge, Plymouths De Soto and Chrysler all offered motors with in line dual quad motors, originally with Carter WCFB and later with AFB. All the ones I drove were doggy at light part throttle driving, I had a 1957 Chrysler 300 C car that I swap the inline dual Carter WCB on the cast iron in line 2x4 intake to a single 4 barrel dual plane stock intake and carb off of a 1957 New Yorker and it was way better to drive
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/20/22 01:13 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Why didnt Mopar offer the 440 with dual quads?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#3103952
12/20/22 01:27 PM
12/20/22 01:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,954 northwest USA
NANKET
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master
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northwest USA
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The better question is why did they not put the 440 CID short block under the hemi heads??? There wouldn't be any of this stupid debate about 426 hemi vs 440 6bbl, the hemi would have had the TQ like a 440 6 pack PLUS the top end of the hemi. NASCAR had a 427 cubic inch rule. 7.0 liters. That’s why there are so many mid 60’s engines that size. A 440 couldn’t run in NASCAR 406 ford 410 mercury 413 mopar 421 pontiac 425 Buick 426 mopar 427 ford chev The reason for the 440+6 VS the hemi debate is the huge valves and ports on the hemi give away bottom end. So the Sox pack is out front early. The hemi was designed for nascar racing, it’s is a racing engine on the steeet.
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Re: Why didnt Mopar offer the 440 with dual quads?
[Re: NANKET]
#3103968
12/20/22 01:55 PM
12/20/22 01:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,523 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Kalispell Mt.
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The better question is why did they not put the 440 CID short block under the hemi heads??? There wouldn't be any of this stupid debate about 426 hemi vs 440 6bbl, the hemi would have had the TQ like a 440 6 pack PLUS the top end of the hemi. NASCAR had a 427 cubic inch rule. 7.0 liters. That’s why there are so many mid 60’s engines that size. A 440 couldn’t run in NASCAR 406 ford 410 mercury 413 mopar 421 pontiac 425 Buick 426 mopar 427 ford chev The reason for the 440+6 VS the hemi debate is the huge valves and ports on the hemi give away bottom end. So the Sox pack is out front early. The hemi was designed for nascar racing, it’s is a racing engine on the steeet. My 5.7 pulls hard right off idle with heads as big as the 426 hemi... could it be the lack of displacement had more to do with the TQ advantage of the 440 vs 426? Like I said above there is a guaranteed 15+ lb feet of torque just in the displacement alone. The argument goes that the 440 had more TQ (duh, it's bigger) and the 426 had more HP but what if they had equal displacement? 15 lbs tq X 2.45 trans 1st gear X 3.91 rear gear = 144 lbs more tq at the wheels just because of the bigger displacement.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Why didnt Mopar offer the 440 with dual quads?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#3103982
12/20/22 02:41 PM
12/20/22 02:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,782 N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
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N.E. OHIO, USA
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Here's the reason Chrysler gave for the 440 HP and yes warranty, daily drivability, reliability, torque, etc., were the reasons. Where or at what RPM the torque was made went right along with what an engine design engineer once told me: "You don't drive an engine on the horsepower, you drive an engine on the torque". So true, as seen on page 2 with the standard 440 making the same amount of torque of 480 lb/ft at 2800 rpm or at 400 rpm lower than the 440 HP, great for towing or moving a large, heavy vehicle down the road. IMO Torque is KING.
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Re: Why didnt Mopar offer the 440 with dual quads?
[Re: A12]
#3104051
12/20/22 06:24 PM
12/20/22 06:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 44,050 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
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Posts: 44,050
Bend,OR USA
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I can't remember exactly which year GM came out with the 455 C.I. Buick, Oldsmobile and Pontiac motors. I believe 1971 was the first year of the 454 C.I. BB Chevy.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Why didnt Mopar offer the 440 with dual quads?
[Re: A12]
#3104089
12/20/22 08:00 PM
12/20/22 08:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,523 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,523
Kalispell Mt.
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Here's the reason Chrysler gave for the 440 HP and yes warranty, daily drivability, reliability, torque, etc., were the reasons. Where or at what RPM the torque was made went right along with what an engine design engineer once told me: "You don't drive an engine on the horsepower, you drive an engine on the torque". So true, as seen on page 2 with the standard 440 making the same amount of torque of 480 lb/ft at 2800 rpm or at 400 rpm lower than the 440 HP, great for towing or moving a large, heavy vehicle down the road. IMO Torque is KING. "Iron and Tin alloy" they basically made them out of tin cans!
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Why didnt Mopar offer the 440 with dual quads?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#3104126
12/20/22 09:25 PM
12/20/22 09:25 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,874 Holland MI Ottawa
2boltmain
OP
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Holland MI Ottawa
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All good posts! That CH28 Edelbrock dual 4 manifold with two 500s sure is a wonderful looking and performing set up though. Cheaper than a six pack with the same great looks IMO.
Keep old mopars alive.
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Re: Why didnt Mopar offer the 440 with dual quads?
[Re: 2boltmain]
#3104174
12/21/22 05:53 AM
12/21/22 05:53 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,958 Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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All good posts! That CH28 Edelbrock dual 4 manifold with two 500s sure is a wonderful looking and performing set up though. Cheaper than a six pack with the same great looks IMO. I fairly sure the 440 had a Six Pack setup because the powers that be stated the package was aimed at street guys who considered it the ultimate setup at the time. The 440 might not have been sold with quads as it was felt unnecessary and might have cut into Hemi sales.
"I think its got a hemi"
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Re: Why didnt Mopar offer the 440 with dual quads?
[Re: gdonovan]
#3104225
12/21/22 11:10 AM
12/21/22 11:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,930 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
Itch Nutz
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Itch Nutz
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,930
fredericksburg,va
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In the early 60s the big 3 had 2-4s offered on their ‘top’ engines, Fords, Chevys, Buick, Chrysler. Trying to sell their lower engines in everyday cars and trucks. I imagine the 6-pacs (440 and 340) were made because the Hemi was expensive and not to durable at that time so Chrysler made something affordable and durable, kinda after the fact. All in my day and time and me so poor I couldn’t even pay attention lol
Last edited by cudaman1969; 12/21/22 11:12 AM.
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Re: Why didnt Mopar offer the 440 with dual quads?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3104236
12/21/22 11:58 AM
12/21/22 11:58 AM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,754 central il.
second 70
top fuel
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top fuel
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central il.
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I can't remember exactly which year GM came out with the 455 C.I. Buick, Oldsmobile and Pontiac motors. I believe 1971 was the first year of the 454 C.I. BB Chevy. 1970 was the first year for the 454. The 427 couldn't pass EPA emissions.
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Re: Why didnt Mopar offer the 440 with dual quads?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3104334
12/21/22 07:38 PM
12/21/22 07:38 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,659 Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,659
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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I can't remember exactly which year GM came out with the 455 C.I. Buick, Oldsmobile and Pontiac motors. I believe 1971 was the first year of the 454 C.I. BB Chevy. 455 started in 1969 I'm pretty sure Cab. 454 would have started in 70. Kevin
Last edited by Twostick; 12/21/22 07:39 PM.
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Re: Why didnt Mopar offer the 440 with dual quads?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#3104356
12/21/22 08:52 PM
12/21/22 08:52 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,659 Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,659
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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The better question is why did they not put the 440 CID short block under the hemi heads??? There wouldn't be any of this stupid debate about 426 hemi vs 440 6bbl, the hemi would have had the TQ like a 440 6 pack PLUS the top end of the hemi. NASCAR had a 427 cubic inch rule. 7.0 liters. That’s why there are so many mid 60’s engines that size. A 440 couldn’t run in NASCAR 406 ford 410 mercury 413 mopar 421 pontiac 425 Buick 426 mopar 427 ford chev The reason for the 440+6 VS the hemi debate is the huge valves and ports on the hemi give away bottom end. So the Sox pack is out front early. The hemi was designed for nascar racing, it’s is a racing engine on the steeet. My 5.7 pulls hard right off idle with heads as big as the 426 hemi... could it be the lack of displacement had more to do with the TQ advantage of the 440 vs 426? Like I said above there is a guaranteed 15+ lb feet of torque just in the displacement alone. The argument goes that the 440 had more TQ (duh, it's bigger) and the 426 had more HP but what if they had equal displacement? 15 lbs tq X 2.45 trans 1st gear X 3.91 rear gear = 144 lbs more tq at the wheels just because of the bigger displacement. I think your 5.7 pulls that off because it doesn't have to deal with a 2.45 first gear and a 3.23 or 2.76 diff and only 3 gears. Hi tech engine management certainly doesn't hurt either but put a 727 and a 2.76 behind it in a 5500 lb Ram pickup and I think the experience will come up somewhat short of sporty. Peak torque on a Gen 3 is 4000 rpm +/-. On a 440 it was 2800. Kevin
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Re: Why didnt Mopar offer the 440 with dual quads?
[Re: Twostick]
#3104969
12/23/22 04:52 PM
12/23/22 04:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,523 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,523
Kalispell Mt.
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The better question is why did they not put the 440 CID short block under the hemi heads??? There wouldn't be any of this stupid debate about 426 hemi vs 440 6bbl, the hemi would have had the TQ like a 440 6 pack PLUS the top end of the hemi. NASCAR had a 427 cubic inch rule. 7.0 liters. That’s why there are so many mid 60’s engines that size. A 440 couldn’t run in NASCAR 406 ford 410 mercury 413 mopar 421 pontiac 425 Buick 426 mopar 427 ford chev The reason for the 440+6 VS the hemi debate is the huge valves and ports on the hemi give away bottom end. So the Sox pack is out front early. The hemi was designed for nascar racing, it’s is a racing engine on the steeet. My 5.7 pulls hard right off idle with heads as big as the 426 hemi... could it be the lack of displacement had more to do with the TQ advantage of the 440 vs 426? Like I said above there is a guaranteed 15+ lb feet of torque just in the displacement alone. The argument goes that the 440 had more TQ (duh, it's bigger) and the 426 had more HP but what if they had equal displacement? 15 lbs tq X 2.45 trans 1st gear X 3.91 rear gear = 144 lbs more tq at the wheels just because of the bigger displacement. I think your 5.7 pulls that off because it doesn't have to deal with a 2.45 first gear and a 3.23 or 2.76 diff and only 3 gears. Hi tech engine management certainly doesn't hurt either but put a 727 and a 2.76 behind it in a 5500 lb Ram pickup and I think the experience will come up somewhat short of sporty. Peak torque on a Gen 3 is 4000 rpm +/-. On a 440 it was 2800. Kevin How many hemis or 6 packs came with a 2.76 gear?
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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