Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3105267
12/24/22 03:51 PM
12/24/22 03:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,200 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
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Bend,OR USA
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I've never been able to power shift a diaphragm like a 3 finger. Zooming around on the street, shifting hard, yes. But full throttle, flick the pedal, puch the the radio out of the dash type driving the just simply up to the task. I have a late 70's Hot Rod mag with an article all about clutches, it even bashes GM for using a diaphragm. And it states that all their heavy duty truck app used B&B. I do not trust anything written by any of the car magazines, the writers are all English majors in college and some of them do not know anything about cars, trucks, motorcycles or any kind of automotive racing My point is they will take what some "expert in our hobby" say for the truth and print it They don't know that they have been played I recently bought a core motor for a customer, 1996 351 C.I. Ford Windsor motor out of the 3/4 ton 4x4 truck crew cab 5 speed, and it had a stock diaphragm clutch in it I like and use mostly H.P. aftermarket clutches in most of my stick shift street and strip builds: up:
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/24/22 03:53 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: TJP]
#3105402
12/25/22 10:59 AM
12/25/22 10:59 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,991 Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX
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I have driven several of 4 speed gm products, They aren't the same as my B&B 833. Most guys aren't laying them out. I can tell you on more than one occasion, you go for a ride with them and they think they are being violent with it, they arn't doing chit. Most times I'll try a couple on the floor, 6000+ rpm violent power shifts resulting in an occasional very nasty missed shift resulting in a heavy ,noisy gear grind. When you do catch them with the normal ash try opening crunch, that happens with my B&B, is more of a slip into the full clamp. For you who say they are fine, go out run your car to 6000 in first, DO NOT LIFT THE GAS PEDAL AT ALL, hit the clutch, while pulling second (thats the easy one for you guys), then tell me how good they are. I just wonder how many of these reviews have really pushed this stuff to the absolute limit, to the point of failure without fear. Back in the day, when they wrote articles like that, they didn't care about grenading a Hemi or what ever rare expensive machine into little pieces. Now we put-put around and pound our chest(keyboard) The diaphragm is a proven street put putter, thanks to years of GM usage. When an aftermarket mfg, quits using them you can bet its because they are cheaper to mfg, so they can make more money.
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3105443
12/25/22 01:27 PM
12/25/22 01:27 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,263 nowhere
Sniper
master
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master
Joined: May 2019
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nowhere
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I have driven several of 4 speed gm products, They aren't the same as my B&B 833. Most guys aren't laying them out. I can tell you on more than one occasion, you go for a ride with them and they think they are being violent with it, they arn't doing chit. Most times I'll try a couple on the floor, 6000+ rpm violent power shifts resulting in an occasional very nasty missed shift resulting in a heavy ,noisy gear grind. When you do catch them with the normal ash try opening crunch, that happens with my B&B, is more of a slip into the full clamp. For you who say they are fine, go out run your car to 6000 in first, DO NOT LIFT THE GAS PEDAL AT ALL, hit the clutch, while pulling second (thats the easy one for you guys), then tell me how good they are. I just wonder how many of these reviews have really pushed this stuff to the absolute limit, to the point of failure without fear. Back in the day, when they wrote articles like that, they didn't care about grenading a Hemi or what ever rare expensive machine into little pieces. Now we put-put around and pound our chest(keyboard) The diaphragm is a proven street put putter, thanks to years of GM usage. When an aftermarket mfg, quits using them you can bet its because they are cheaper to mfg, so they can make more money. Maybe you need to go back and read what the OP asked.
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: moparx]
#3105549
12/25/22 10:04 PM
12/25/22 10:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,377 Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Omaha Ne
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a very good friend of mine [R.I.P. Donny] had a 69 camero he built a small block for, out of cast off dirt burner parts. it was a street car with a 4speed and 4.56 gears, he put one of those vertical gate shifters in. i don't know what transmission it had, or if he did anything to it, but that thing was a foot to the floor/7000+ rpm terror with no missed shifts ! 6500 here with an H pattern super shifter II and R lockout Foot never left the radiator LOL until after the lights. 4:30 to 5:13 gears on slicks.
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: Sniper]
#3105559
12/25/22 10:41 PM
12/25/22 10:41 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,991 Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,991
Apollo, PA.
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I have driven several of 4 speed gm products, They aren't the same as my B&B 833. Most guys aren't laying them out. I can tell you on more than one occasion, you go for a ride with them and they think they are being violent with it, they arn't doing chit. Most times I'll try a couple on the floor, 6000+ rpm violent power shifts resulting in an occasional very nasty missed shift resulting in a heavy ,noisy gear grind. When you do catch them with the normal ash try opening crunch, that happens with my B&B, is more of a slip into the full clamp. For you who say they are fine, go out run your car to 6000 in first, DO NOT LIFT THE GAS PEDAL AT ALL, hit the clutch, while pulling second (thats the easy one for you guys), then tell me how good they are. I just wonder how many of these reviews have really pushed this stuff to the absolute limit, to the point of failure without fear. Back in the day, when they wrote articles like that, they didn't care about grenading a Hemi or what ever rare expensive machine into little pieces. Now we put-put around and pound our chest(keyboard) The diaphragm is a proven street put putter, thanks to years of GM usage. When an aftermarket mfg, quits using them you can bet its because they are cheaper to mfg, so they can make more money. Maybe you need to go back and read what the OP asked. ok, another 10.5 B&B. My 2 cents...or a 10.95 (better)
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3105582
12/26/22 02:54 AM
12/26/22 02:54 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,200 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,200
Bend,OR USA
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/29/22 02:27 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3106346
12/29/22 12:36 PM
12/29/22 12:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013 South Park, Pa.
68LAR
master
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
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I have driven several of 4 speed gm products, They aren't the same as my B&B 833. Most guys aren't laying them out. I can tell you on more than one occasion, you go for a ride with them and they think they are being violent with it, they arn't doing chit. Most times I'll try a couple on the floor, 6000+ rpm violent power shifts resulting in an occasional very nasty missed shift resulting in a heavy ,noisy gear grind. When you do catch them with the normal ash try opening crunch, that happens with my B&B, is more of a slip into the full clamp. For you who say they are fine, go out run your car to 6000 in first, DO NOT LIFT THE GAS PEDAL AT ALL, hit the clutch, while pulling second (thats the easy one for you guys), then tell me how good they are. I just wonder how many of these reviews have really pushed this stuff to the absolute limit, to the point of failure without fear. Back in the day, when they wrote articles like that, they didn't care about grenading a Hemi or what ever rare expensive machine into little pieces. Now we put-put around and pound our chest(keyboard) The diaphragm is a proven street put putter, thanks to years of GM usage. When an aftermarket mfg, quits using them you can bet its because they are cheaper to mfg, so they can make more money. Maybe you need to go back and read what the OP asked. ok, another 10.5 B&B. My 2 cents...or a 10.95 (better) If you get YouTube, go to the search engine and type in "11 second 68 roadrunner" . Look for the blue roadrunner with 493 on the windshield. Watch the run. 6200 rpm power shifts with a CF dual friction that has been in the car for several years. If you have a problem power shifting a diaphragm clutch I don't think it is a clutch problem. Just my 2 cents.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: Kudakidd]
#3106753
12/30/22 07:01 PM
12/30/22 07:01 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,263 nowhere
Sniper
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master
Joined: May 2019
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nowhere
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Diaphram (Chivvy) clutches do not belong in a Mopar. McLeod here. Better get rid of your saginaw power steering pumps then.
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: Sniper]
#3106776
12/30/22 08:12 PM
12/30/22 08:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494 Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks
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I Live Here
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Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
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Diaphram (Chivvy) clutches do not belong in a Mopar. McLeod here. Better get rid of your saginaw power steering pumps then. And the 72-93 Dodge trucks also use the exact same Saginaw 808 p/s box as Chevy..
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: moparmarks]
#3106777
12/30/22 08:20 PM
12/30/22 08:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494 Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Western Colorado High Desert
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Just to clarify that CF and the McLeod twin disc are the only diaphragm clutches that I use on Mopars. They are quite different than a standard Chevy diaphragm clutch. Have a few new B&B setups on the shelf.
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: moparmarks]
#3106896
12/31/22 10:23 AM
12/31/22 10:23 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,991 Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX
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Apollo, PA.
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Just to clarify that CF and the McLeod twin disc are the only diaphragm clutches that I use on Mopars. They are quite different than a standard Chevy diaphragm clutch. Have a few new B&D setups on the shelf. Right I was going to say this a couple days ago, but didn't want to waste my time. Even though they are still a band aid on a cheap design.
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3107100
12/31/22 10:27 PM
12/31/22 10:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494 Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
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So if the diaphragm clutch is such a poor setup why did Chrysler pretty much ditch the B&B for the diaphragm in the 80's? My 87 D150, 91 CTD and 98 Dakota all came with a diaphragm clutch.
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: moparmarks]
#3107111
12/31/22 10:59 PM
12/31/22 10:59 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,263 nowhere
Sniper
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So if the diaphragm clutch is such a poor setup why did Chrysler pretty much ditch the B&D for the diaphragm in the 80's? My 87 D150, 91 CTD and 98 Dakota all came with a diaphragm clutch. Because some people don't understand the difference between a street and a race application. OP asked about a street application.
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: moparmarks]
#3107145
01/01/23 07:01 AM
01/01/23 07:01 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,407 Abilene, Texas
fastmark
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Abilene, Texas
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So if the diaphragm clutch is such a poor setup why did Chrysler pretty much ditch the B&D for the diaphragm in the 80's? My 87 D150, 91 CTD and 98 Dakota all came with a diaphragm clutch. All of these applications were designed by the factory to work with a diaphragm clutch and all the linkages worked with them. The older muscle cars linkage rates were designed for the Borg and Beck. That’s all I don’t like about them. I’ve driven several with them Centerforce and they work, just not the same as the original design Borg and Beck. Different preferences for different people.
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