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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: Sniper]
#3104793
12/23/22 07:29 AM
12/23/22 07:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,389
Abilene, Texas
fastmark
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,389
Abilene, Texas
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Never had a problem with diaphragm clutches, they were factory on a lot of Mopars BTW, nor have I ever had to remove the over center spring. But then again, I do not use the pedal free play method of setting up the clutch either. I use plate departure and go for .060" of a gap with the pedal to the floor. What Mopar has a factory diaphragm clutch? I’ve never seen one on a 65 to 71 of the muscle car era, which is what this board mainly deals with. The .060 gap with the pedal on the floor is the issue with me. I like my Mopar clutches to disengage at the top of the pedal travel like they were designed to do instead of pushing them to the floor. That travel messes up my timing when I shift. I drove that latest install of that 68 Hemi Charger with the hemi 4 speed and the gear vendor OD unit. It has the McLeod twin disc long style in it. It is extremely smooth on the release, releases right at the top and has Perfe͏c͏t͏ pedal pressure. Not to much like your leg gets a workout and not to little like you’re stepping on a plum, but just right. The car will break loose the tires in third gear at any time.
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3104859
12/23/22 12:28 PM
12/23/22 12:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,979
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,979
U.S.S.A.
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I will NEVER again use a diaphram Chivvy type clutch, borg and beck or give me death...  How about Long (Ford) style? I have a 10.5 McLeod Long/B+B , I'll have it rebuilt as many times as possible .
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: fastmark]
#3104862
12/23/22 12:33 PM
12/23/22 12:33 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,820
South Bend
John Brown
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,820
South Bend
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Never had a problem with diaphragm clutches, they were factory on a lot of Mopars BTW, nor have I ever had to remove the over center spring. But then again, I do not use the pedal free play method of setting up the clutch either. I use plate departure and go for .060" of a gap with the pedal to the floor. What Mopar has a factory diaphragm clutch? I’ve never seen one on a 65 to 71 of the muscle car era, which is what this board mainly deals with. The .060 gap with the pedal on the floor is the issue with me. I like my Mopar clutches to disengage at the top of the pedal travel like they were designed to do instead of pushing them to the floor. That travel messes up my timing when I shift. I drove that latest install of that 68 Hemi Charger with the hemi 4 speed and the gear vendor OD unit. It has the McLeod twin disc long style in it. It is extremely smooth on the release, releases right at the top and has Perfe͏c͏t͏ pedal pressure. Not to much like your leg gets a workout and not to little like you’re stepping on a plum, but just right. The car will break loose the tires in third gear at any time. Hate to speak for another person, but, .060 is the recommended gap between the disk and the flywheel/pressure plate with a diaphragm clutch... not the measurement between the clutch pedal and the floorboard. I used to sandwich a feeler guage under the disk, and if it fell out when I pushed the pedal, it was good. Depressing a diaphragm clutch too much is bad too. When they are depressed too much, the pedal can stick to the floor when power shifting. Ask me how I know. If all else fails, read the instructions. I was a 3000 pound+ B&B clutch person until I tried a Zoom diaphragm pp and aluminum flywheel. Man, what a difference!! Took a bit to get used to the girly clutch pedal, but it sure did lock up tight on high rpm shifts.
July 19th should be "Drive Like Rockford Day". R.I.P. Jimmie.
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: olwhite64]
#3104899
12/23/22 02:01 PM
12/23/22 02:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,065
Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,065
Niles , Ohio
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Ive had my 65 since 69.Th CF is the best clutch Ive ever run I had zooms Mccleod factory mopar remans etc.This clutch ls the best Ive run Still hooks like mad and easy on the leg.Its been in for 20 years and has been weel used.As for as some say stop and go Never had a problem with it in traffic.Have the same in my kids Lil experss behind a buit 360 Same thing its flawless and nice to drive
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: olwhite64]
#3104928
12/23/22 03:36 PM
12/23/22 03:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,466
Answering the call of the wild
ThermoQuad
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,466
Answering the call of the wild
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the reason for the old wives tale that paddle disc chatters is the installer did not dial in the bellhousing to 0.00050 inches tir alignment/squareness and uses the roller crank register bearing. The shifting/lock up difference betwixt the full marcel clutch discs vs the 6 paddle disks is night and day. Paddle disk wins all day long even in traffic
Last edited by ThermoQuad; 12/23/22 03:36 PM.
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: JohnRR]
#3104967
12/23/22 05:46 PM
12/23/22 05:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,712
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,712
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
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I will NEVER again use a diaphram Chivvy type clutch, borg and beck or give me death... How about Long (Ford) style? I have a 10.5 McLeod Long/B+B , I'll have it rebuilt as many times as possible . Same here.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: GomangoCuda]
#3105052
12/23/22 09:32 PM
12/23/22 09:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
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Why not just get a new McLeod disc?
I've used the crap out of CF clutches on my Mopars since they came out in the 90's. Have ran several of them on motors up to 600hp. Love them and never a failure even on my 8500# W200.
I've used the McLeod Twin Disc on motors over 600hp and it is awesome. IMO it would be a waste of money for a stock 440.
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: Rhinodart]
#3105056
12/23/22 09:38 PM
12/23/22 09:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
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I will NEVER again use a diaphram Chivvy type clutch, borg and beck or give me death... My 92 Cummins 12V had a diaphram PP so not just a Chevy thing......
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#3105064
12/23/22 10:16 PM
12/23/22 10:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,707
North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,707
North Dakota
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the reason for the old wives tale that paddle disc chatters is the installer did not dial in the bellhousing to 0.00050 inches tir alignment/squareness and uses the roller crank register bearing. The shifting/lock up difference betwixt the full marcel clutch discs vs the 6 paddle disks is night and day. Paddle disk wins all day long even in traffic Five ten-thousandths total indicator? Two and a half ten-thousandths off center? You have to be kidding me. There's more clearance than that between the retainer and the bell housing.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: olwhite64]
#3105068
12/23/22 10:27 PM
12/23/22 10:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
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I've run just about every clutch you can name over the last 40 years being a stick car guy and the combo I have in the Savoy now is the best street clutch I have ever run. It is a Centerforce 2 plate with a Mcleod dual friction 500 series disc on a Hays billet wheel of course. I have never raced it seriously though with this clutch only a half dozen easy passes. I don't want to break the current Hemi box in the car right now as it shifts like butter and doesn't whine like most 18 spline units I've had. When I raced the car I used a Hays Mark XII adjustable unit with a Ram bronze paddle disc that also did surprisingly well on the street too. Gus 
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#3105072
12/23/22 10:34 PM
12/23/22 10:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
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I've run just about every clutch you can name over the last 40 years being a stick car guy and the combo I have in the Savoy now is the best street clutch I have ever run. It is a Centerforce 2 plate with a Mcleod dual friction 500 series disc on a Hays billet wheel of course. I have never raced it seriously though with this clutch only a half dozen easy passes. I don't want to break the current Hemi box in the car right now as it shifts like butter and doesn't whine like most 18 spline units I've had. When I raced the car I used a Hays Mark XII adjustable unit with a Ram bronze paddle disc that also did surprisingly well on the street too. Gus Talk about spreading the love Gus. I too have ran about everything out there over the decades. Not drag racing but a lot of burnouts and banging gears. I put a Golden Ram in my CTD and that was a good setup. I have an Atomic twin disc but haven't used it. It's not meant for the street.
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: moparmarks]
#3105103
12/24/22 02:00 AM
12/24/22 02:00 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
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If a diaphragm clutch doesn’t like stop and go driving, how’d I get by with zero issues in my three season daily or almost daily cars? Even the ultra heavy no weight lightening, totally stock under hood 440, Dana equipped, 68 charger never had an issue.
I want my fair share
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: moparmarks]
#3105116
12/24/22 07:32 AM
12/24/22 07:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,389
Abilene, Texas
fastmark
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,389
Abilene, Texas
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I will NEVER again use a diaphram Chivvy type clutch, borg and beck or give me death... My 92 Cummins 12V had a diaphram PP so not just a Chevy thing...... Were talking apples and grapefruit comparing a Musclecar to a Cummins truck. I had a 91 Cummins with a diaphragm. I think that is the only kind they make. The factory designed the release rate to fit a diaphragm type clutch. My issue is just the rate of release in the design of the linkage for a Musclecar designed for a Borg and Beck. The McLeod diaphragm was terrible. The Centerforce in two cars was bearable. But the Ram Borg and Beck and Long style twin disc were like heaven. Now, if the original poster is looking for a clutch, I have a Centerforce diaphragm clutch and dual friction disc I would sell worth the money. It has very few miles on it. A Freind built it for a street/strip car and then realized he could not shift it consistently enough. Pm if you want some pictures and a price.
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Re: Recommendations on clutches
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3105182
12/24/22 11:49 AM
12/24/22 11:49 AM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,233
nowhere
Sniper
master
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master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,233
nowhere
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I've never been able to power shift a diaphragm like a 3 finger. Zooming around on the street, shifting hard, yes. But full throttle, flick the pedal, puch the the radio out of the dash type driving the just simply up to the task. I have a late 70's Hot Rod mag with an article all about clutches, it even bashes GM for using a diaphragm. And it states that all their heavy duty truck app used B&B. Had a Sachs setup that had no problem shifting like that. But it was behind a warm 360 in an 87 Diplomat that I converted. Everything was new in the linkage setup though.
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