I need some background from those of you that have created a vintage vehicle starting with a salvage yard save, or an old vehicle that has no title. I recently bought a 1956 Dodge C1B8 pickup from a local seller. But, he has no title for the truck and I need to submit a form to the Wisconsin DOT to get a replacement title in my name. Here is the history of the truck as i know it:
1. 1st owner from new is the Pastor Swanson at the Zion Methodist Church in Forest Junction WI (about 25 miles south of me in Green Bay). He passed away long ago. I have been in contact with the church to find out if any family members are local yet that I may contact to get them to sign off a Bill of Sale form for the WI DOT.
2. Before he passed away, local tractor collector Walter Keller bought the truck from Pastor Swanson. No idea what Walter paid for it, and Walter never transferred to the title to his name. Walter is well known in the midwest tractor collectors circles, and also lives nearby to Forest Junction. No idea when Walter bought the truck from Pastor Swanson.
3. About 15 years ago, Walter gave the Dodge to his son in law Mike Linskey, also living in the Forest junction area. Mike never transferred the title to his name, and the truck is still in Forest Junction.
4. Mike sold the 56 Dodge to me, making it clear he had no title for it, for cash. No actual cash record exists for the sale. Since the truck history is all local and local to me I went ahead to buy it.

The truck has a WI Collector plate on it, and I had a friend at the local Sheriff department do a search on the plate number to see if any name comes up, or if the plate is current. By his search he says the plate shows no registered name for it. When I went to the WI DOT webpage to search the collector plate number is does come up as a 1956 Dodge pickup truck. So no one else is connected to that plate number for that truck or any other collector vehicle.

So, to the WI DOT Pastor Swanson would still be the owner based on a search of the serial number on the truck. Walter and Mike have never been part of the title history of the truck. I would be the 2nd owner, technically having bought it from the original owner, who no longer exists. When the title gets resolved it will show I got the truck from Pastor Swanson, still at near the same miles on the odometer that it showed when Walter bought the truck from the 1st owner. So the WI DOT needs to do a search of the serial number to confirm no one has title, lien or claim to the truck. So if I can confirm the family name of the 1st owner and perhaps find a kin of Pastor Swanson, should I attempt a Bill of Sale with them, or just let the DOT do the serial number search and leave it at that?

My 55 is registered as a 55. My 48 Federal Motors Truck is registered as a 48 Federal. Also have a 50 Dodge registered as a 50. All three have modern drive trains and on none original chassis. None of these vehicles had a tile when I bought them. If you have the original data plate, then use the vin and data from your 56. They really don’t need to know what chassis and drive train you are using. At least that’s the way it works here in Tennessee. But then each state is different.

Agreed. In WI the title will show the tag attached to the vehicle, not the chassis data relative to the donor vehicle. So my replacement title will show the tag serial number on the firewall tag the 56 Dodge currently shows. I took a ride this afternoon on my motorcycle (a balmy 55 degrees up here in east central Wisconsin) and doing that I tend to run ideas around in my head to figure things out. At one point I thought I needed to fill out the WI DOT Bill of Sale form since I have no title to report to the DOT as a record of sale for the 56. But to do that I'd have to list the person I bought the truck from. But he never had it titled in his name. He got the 56 from his father in law with no title transfer. His father in law bought it from the original owner and had never transferred the title to his name. I can submit a DOT form for a replacement title, onto which I can report the known name of the original owner of the 56 truck when it was bought brand new.

If I submitted the WI DOT Bill of Sale form, with the prior "owners" listed would show two people who never reported the vehicle title transfer, and for that matter never reported the sale to the state to pay the required sales tax. In this part of Wisconsin the vehicle sales tax is 5% of the sale price. Yet the person I bought the truck from has no idea what his FIL paid for it, and his FIL doesn't recall what he paid for it (though I doubt a collector would forget what he paid for any vehicle he bought). So if I submit a formal Bill of Sale it could slow the process of title replacement if the state would contact those persons about unreported sales taxes paid on a vehicle sale. After a bunch of thought, I'll submit for a replacement of a lost title form and let the state do the due diligence to show the vehicle serial number tag is clear for me to title it in my name. I'n in no rush to get the 56 on the road. I just need to start the new title process.

I'm not a lawyer, but is it possible for the people you got the truck from to get a lost title from WI? If it was indeed in their name and still on the WI title roster, there would only be a fee to replace the lost title, the owner signs off, and you could transfer it at the same time into your name. You would then need to pay the sales tax and title transfer fees, I don't think you need to plate it until your ready to start driving it (at least you don't in IL). My son did that on a modern truck he bought last fall. In my son's case he was transferring the title to IL, so the WI sales tax was waved, but the guy that sold it paid for the lost title fee.

I've bought vehicles before with lost titles. It was by far better to get the lost title (and I paid whatever fees were involved) and be done with it, then it is going any other way.

Yeah that would be the way to do it. The seller I bought the truck from never had it titled in his name, same for his FIL. So to WI DOT the original owner still holds the title rights. If I could do this through the original owner I would pay for them to get a replacement title. But I'm pretty sure the original owner has passed away. .If he were still alive I think the collector plate on the truck would still show registered in his name. When my friend in the sheriff department ran a trace on the collector plate, no name, nothing came up in the WI DOT system to show a name connected to the collector plate. So my next step is to submit a title search/replacement form to the WI DOT with the original owner's name on it. A search by WI DOT should show the original owner next of kin has no claim to the title, and then I can get a replacement title in my name.

Do not spend any money on it till you hae a good title in your name.

I usually just do not get involved in that kind of thing. Did it once, was a real PITA to get it sorted out.

Agreed. This 56 Dodge is on hold until I have title in hand. Could take a while, but I'm in no rush. Just want to make certain no one else tries to make claim on it.

Curious why no owner came up upon running the plate ? That seems strange to me.

Have you verified that the pastor is the last titled owner with the Wisconsin DMV?

Does Wisconsin have a Bonded title process ? Iowa does....... and while it requires filling out some forms and securing a bond, It is not a hard process to go through.

In Kansas, the process is to print a bill of sale from the Kansas DMV website and fill it out. A regular BOS is not adequate.

You then take the car to the Kansas DOT motor vehicle inspection station where you present the bill of sale and they do a 50 state title search to make sure it's not stolen. They REQURE you roll it off the trailer so they can see the VIN.

They give you the paperwork to submit to the DMV to apply for a lost title. Usually you get a title back within a month or so.

Andy, I assume the collector plate on the truck is very old, So have your sheriff buddy run the serial number through the stolen vehicle data bank. If it comes back clean, go the WI bonded title route.

See what you have to do to get a bonded title. In IL the truck has to be near road worthy (someone has to sign off it can be made safe to drive on the streets of IL) and has to have a whole sale value assessment (IL requires that from a licensed auto dealership), a surety bond (2x the assessed value, through an insurance co), and pictures, all submitted at the same time. Then it comes with a 3 year time frame someone with earlier dated proper paperwork can claim the truck. If the guy you bought the truck from really has had it for long enough for the collector plate to be out of the system, there shouldn't be anyone holding a title older then your submitted paperwork. Unless the previous owner's relative is actually holding an existing title, they won't be able to prove the truck belongs to them to get a lost title. Since the plate is no longer in the system, the title attached to the plate is no longer in the system. If the truck was ever reported as stolen, it should turn up in the stolen vehicle database unless an insurance company paid off for the stolen truck, at which point the truck would have belonged to the insurance co, and they won't be back to claim it, its been long written off. That is why the title bonding works and why its available in most states..

The WI process is probably different. You need to follow the WI process.

The WI Collector plate on the truck comes up with no name relative to the truck, likely because the original owner and person registered to the Collector plate has died. That's why the license plate search by my buddy at the sheriff's department came up with no records for the Collector plate. I'll send the chassis serial number to my sheriff department contact to see if anything comes up. Since the truck has no VIN, being so old, I doubt submitting the serial number on one of the VIN Search websites would produce any results.

The WI surety bond process can take up to five years to clear. And there are costs involved getting the surety bond processed through an insurance inspector. So it is one choice to act on, but.

I do know that for motorcycles, its easy to get a title in your name for it online from Vermont. Then with that title in hand with your name on it, take it to the state you are in and transfer the title from Vermont to the state you live in. That process also applies for vehicles older than 15 years, and requires a legitimate Bill of Sale for the referenced vehicle market value (like a NADA value estimate).

https://cartitles.com/how-to-use-the-vermont-title-loophole-to-get-a-vehicle-title/

My 56 Dodge applies age wise, well over 15 years. I can get a WI DOT Bill of Sale to be the purchase price record. I'll have to hunt to find a NADA or Hemmings market value estimate.

andyvh1959-you have a pm

This may be the way to go, the Vermont DOT has a specific, direct, easy process to create a transferable registration for vehicles over 15 years old:

https://cartitles.com/how-to-use-the-vermont-title-loophole-to-get-a-vehicle-title/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIonJrDJC30

Here is the actual Vermont VD-040 online form you can use to process a transferable REPLACEMENT registration:

https://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/files/documents/VD-040-Replacement_Registration.pdf

Here is the actual Vermont VD-119 online form you can use to process a Vermont Registration:

https://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/files/documents/VD-119-Vehicle_Registration_Tax_Title.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjmoNkn7mc4

Vermont DOT also has form VT-004 for a replacement title, but that only applies (I think) for Vermont residents:

https://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/files/documents/VT-004-Replacement_Title.pdf

I started a post on the Garage Journal webpage and many replies came back on how easy it was for persons not living in Vermont got a transferable registration for a vehicle with no title. Vermont DOT does not give a title in your name for the vehicle. Once the Vermont DOT creates the registration for your vehicle in your name, you take that to your own state DOT and transfer the registration to your state and obtain the title in your name and state for the vehicle.

For what its worth, there was a company that used the State of Alabama no title process several years ago. You sent them a bill of sale, they transferred it into their name, applied for the AL paper work, and mailed that back to you. You took that paperwork to your DMV and supposedly got a good title. In the AL deal, you basically sold your vehicle to that company, then they transferred it into their name, and sold it back to you (their fees) with the AL paperwork, like you had bought the vehicle directly from them. That company got a lot of titles issued until several states put the brakes on the process at the same time, after receiving many title transfers for older vehicles from that one company. States investigate this sort of stuff. The states put enough pressure on Alabama that AL made the requirement that the said vehicle needed to be present in the state for a vehicle ID inspection before the paperwork could be processed.

The State of IL was one of several states that did not accept the paperwork from that company. IL would impound the paper work, and lock the ID of the vehicle under the guise of possible stolen property. Then you could never title that vehicle ID in any state.

I would want to be sure your paper work from Vermont is coming back in your name from the state of Vermont, and not as being sold to you by a person or company that lives in Vermont.

I'm not saying there could be a problem with the Vermont title process, but there is no way I would take a chance on the Vermont registration process. The WI bonded process is the legal process WI wants to see. The 5 year thing is only the open window someone with preexisting real title for your truck can claim it. If you know the history of your truck, the 5 year thing is no problem. If something was going to happen, it would occur very shortly after the bond was issued and the legal notification was posted with what ever process the bond company is required to use by the state.

Put the shoe on the other foot, after that truck actually belonged to you, would you want someone that stole it ,say from a storage unit without you knowing it was missing, to be able to get an easy replacement title for your truck next week?

Well, dammit Gene, all good points that make total sense. Thanks for dumping too much salt on the hot buttered popcorn just as the movie starts.

Your point about the Alabama title process, and the title service companies doing the "buy it from you/sell it back to you" process could be how other title service providers do it. Even cartitles.com doing the Vermont title/registration process for $156 may be similar. Although cartitles.com does have a youtube video to guide you through the entire Vermont registration/title process to do it on your own. And some of their youtube videos go through many details about why the Vermont process may NOT work. At minimum I'll contact the WI DOT and confirm if they'll even consider a registration transfer from Vermont.

Might want to be careful what you ask, or more accurately, how you ask title questions at your DMV. They may get the idea your trying to pull something shady. Could be a real problem when you finally decide what you want to do. For instance, I wouldn't want to ask them about the Vermont title deal, then follow up asking about a WI bonded title process, if you get my drift.

I am lucky around here, the local tax assessors office, that's who handles titles and such, is pretty good about working with you to get your title sorted. But I live in a rural area and I don;t think I ever spent more than 10 minutes in line,

My behoove you to just go down there and talk to them. I could tell you the process I had to go thru to get a bonded title in Texas, or Arizona for that matter. None of which is relevant to your state's process.

Yeah, I think my next step is a face to face with a person at the local WI DMV here in Green Bay. At least then I can express that I'm not out to cheat my way through not paying sales tax/registration fees, I just want to do the right process to ensure I can get a title for my 56 and get it in my name. My 56 has not been on the road for at leat 22 years, maybe longer. No one has laid title claim to it in that time, so I think the 1st owner has long since said bye-bye to it, and from life is what I have found out. This past Tuesday I hired a roll-back truck to move it 25 miles from the seller's house to my FIL's pole building (non heated but all concrete floor), so it is inside secure with some JD Johnny poppers, Olver, Massey Harris and Ford 8N tractors. Made the move for $168, well worth it, and a lot less hassle than trying to rent a tow dolly.

When the truck operator was winching the 56 onto the bed he said it must be in gear because he saw the fan on the engine turning. So that means the Poly-V8 is free and turns over. Later next spring I may borrow a 6-volt battery from my FIL and see if I can get it to fire up. Not sure what a running 56 Poly V8.with 90,000 miles on it is worth. Maybe someone restoring a classic old Mopar may want to buy it and the 3-spd tranny, as my 2001 Dakota is the planned chassis for the 56.

Pretty sure by 56 they were 12v setups, in any case you can use a 12v battery to run the starter. Been doing that with my 51 for a couple of years now, converted everything to 12v, but the starter, it just spins faster and starts, right now. I don't have a 56 FSM, but my 55 FSM shows the P28 and P29 models are 12v. My 57 FSM shows all Plymouth's as 12v.

Thanks. Another clue is if the battery only has three caps on top instead of six. 6-volt batteries only have three 2-volt cells. 12-volt batteries have six caps.