Re: 426 Hemi Valvetrain Question
[Re: rickseeman]
#3102807
12/16/22 11:20 AM
12/16/22 11:20 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,178 Michigan
A727Tflite
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Anyone here broken a factory Hemi rocker arm as a direct result of arm failure?
Wonder why the bad rap on factory arms. Except the ratios being off from time to time. I don't think anyone has broken one. It's just that the roller rockers look sexier. And in your mind the roller tip has to be easier on the guides. Not that anyone is going to actually be driving a 426 Hemi any miles to speak of. This isn't the old days. I've never torn down a stock street hemi that the guides weren't worn out. A stock street Hemi with how many miles ?
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Re: 426 Hemi Valvetrain Question
[Re: Hot 340]
#3102814
12/16/22 11:44 AM
12/16/22 11:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,730 Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
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Anyone here broken a factory Hemi rocker arm as a direct result of arm failure?
Wonder why the bad rap on factory arms. Except the ratios being off from time to time. I don't think anyone has broken one. It's just that the roller rockers look sexier. And in your mind the roller tip has to be easier on the guides. Not that anyone is going to actually be driving a 426 Hemi any miles to speak of. This isn't the old days. I've never torn down a stock street hemi that the guides weren't worn out. and you really think a roller tip that operates the full sweep closer to the stem center ISN'T easier on the guides than the stock rockers that hang off the edge of the stem at the beginning of the sweep? You took me backwards there. I'm saying I wouldn't put one together without roller rockers. Partly because I think they have to be 10 times better on the guides. And of course I think roller rockers are pretty.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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Re: 426 Hemi Valvetrain Question
[Re: A727Tflite]
#3102816
12/16/22 11:47 AM
12/16/22 11:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,730 Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
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Anyone here broken a factory Hemi rocker arm as a direct result of arm failure?
Wonder why the bad rap on factory arms. Except the ratios being off from time to time. I don't think anyone has broken one. It's just that the roller rockers look sexier. And in your mind the roller tip has to be easier on the guides. Not that anyone is going to actually be driving a 426 Hemi any miles to speak of. This isn't the old days. I've never torn down a stock street hemi that the guides weren't worn out. A stock street Hemi with how many miles ? Most that I have torn down had 20, 30 or 40,000 miles. They were worn out. People used to drive these cars. 4:10 Dana and 70 mph speed limit. Those were the good ol days.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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Re: 426 Hemi Valvetrain Question
[Re: Hot 340]
#3102899
12/16/22 03:25 PM
12/16/22 03:25 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
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Barton's have separate pedestals allowing you to adjust the geometry of each valve separately. The original pedestals can be shimmed up or machined down to adjust geo, but the change affects both intake and exhaust valve sides simultaneously.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: 426 Hemi Valvetrain Question
[Re: polyspheric]
#3102944
12/16/22 06:03 PM
12/16/22 06:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,127 Chicago Blackhawks
hemicar1971
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These day just like in the old days spring pressure is not your friend they get real high with a big MM hemi Cam shaft at an inch lift. This were RB. set up is nice and you can also get to a spring if you break one with the head on the motor in the car quite easy The 426 Hemi in my Challenger ran the stock rockers but back in the early 70s you did not had much of a choice. One rocker never broke it just was not the weak link yet back then.
1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
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Re: 426 Hemi Valvetrain Question
[Re: hemicar1971]
#3102953
12/16/22 06:42 PM
12/16/22 06:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,661 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
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These day just like in the old days spring pressure is not your friend they get real high with a big MM hemi Cam shaft at an inch lift. This were RB. set up is nice and you can also get to a spring if you break one with the head on the motor in the car quite easy The 426 Hemi in my Challenger ran the stock rockers but back in the early 70s you did not had much of a choice. One rocker never broke it just was not the weak link yet back then. And we’re turned 8500 then too.
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Re: 426 Hemi Valvetrain Question
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3103076
12/17/22 12:32 PM
12/17/22 12:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,137 Byron, NY
W.I.N. Racing
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Hemi's are hard on guides...on the intake side. The short sweep/radius of the intake rocker arms side load the guide quite a bit. The exhaust not so much as they are quite long (flatter arc) The biggest issue with stock rockers is they all need to be ground to correct true up the ratio. In blown application you used to see Roller rockers on the intake side and non rollers (Kluff rockers) on the exhaust. Also time spent on centering the contact patch of the rocker to valve stem will greatly reduce guide wear. I have gone as far as re-positioning rocker stands to correct this.
'01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60 '01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust, '05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list '60 Willys CJ5 '01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison '64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd
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Re: 426 Hemi Valvetrain Question
[Re: W.I.N. Racing]
#3103097
12/17/22 01:26 PM
12/17/22 01:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
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True, the short valve-side rocker arm lever, combined with high lift, has a large side-thrust vector at both ends of the curve. Typically the size of the vector isn't related to the rocker arm ratio, since ratio changes are generally done by adjusting the cam-side lever length. As the valve-side lever gets longer (392 and 426 exhausts) more of the motion is nearly vertical. An engine I'm researching has a 2.03" long rocker lever and .350" lift, a ratio of 5.8:1. By comparison, a 1.65" lever at .700" lift is 2.4:1.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: 426 Hemi Valvetrain Question
[Re: polyspheric]
#3103130
12/17/22 03:45 PM
12/17/22 03:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,635 Motor City
6PKRTSE
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Go with Bartons. Best bet in the long run. Take mine to 7900, plenty of street miles since 2007-ish.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: 426 Hemi Valvetrain Question
[Re: cudagee]
#3103174
12/17/22 08:08 PM
12/17/22 08:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,730 Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman
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Those blue ones are beautiful, mine were red and I liked them too. Sometimes I see them natural or maybe silver. The reason I mention this is because I want you to ask what color they are going to be when you order them. I don't want you to think they are going to be beautiful blue and then get them and don't like the color. Ask when you order. You need to be happy.
2011 Drag Pak Challenger
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Re: 426 Hemi Valvetrain Question
[Re: rickseeman]
#3103178
12/17/22 08:23 PM
12/17/22 08:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
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6PKRTSE
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I believe all of Barton's newer current rocker arm sets are natural. They quit anodizing them in colors. Probably for a cost save. Not like they aren't making a fortune off of each set already.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: 426 Hemi Valvetrain Question
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3103179
12/17/22 08:24 PM
12/17/22 08:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
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6PKRTSE
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Go with Bartons. Best bet in the long run. Take mine to 7900, plenty of street miles since 2007-ish. Those look a lot like the BAE #8 rockers No, they are Barton's.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: 426 Hemi Valvetrain Question
[Re: 6PKRTSE]
#3103207
12/17/22 10:59 PM
12/17/22 10:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,127 Chicago Blackhawks
hemicar1971
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The rockers are the same with spray bars that are on my friends RB built hemi 572 CI. Was close to the first one Barton built back in 1999 and yes been rebuilt a few times and still runs 8.90s without reving the motor. Myself I like those rockers on a race cars and even a street cars. I would check them every Winter or specific period of time and make sure the oiling is super clean but we do that with this motor and have never had a problem with them. It is nice to be able to access the Valve spring without sliding the shaft out. Back in the old days whey my Challengers motor in early 70s had a shift point of 9000 an 10000 through the traps this system would of been so nice to have instead of the long shaft system. Push a 426 to those RPMs was just normal in those days and you cam up with some broken V Springs.
1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
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Re: 426 Hemi Valvetrain Question
[Re: rickseeman]
#3103281
12/18/22 11:29 AM
12/18/22 11:29 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,401 Pa
Hot 340
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Anyone here broken a factory Hemi rocker arm as a direct result of arm failure?
Wonder why the bad rap on factory arms. Except the ratios being off from time to time. I don't think anyone has broken one. It's just that the roller rockers look sexier. And in your mind the roller tip has to be easier on the guides. Not that anyone is going to actually be driving a 426 Hemi any miles to speak of. This isn't the old days. I've never torn down a stock street hemi that the guides weren't worn out. and you really think a roller tip that operates the full sweep closer to the stem center ISN'T easier on the guides than the stock rockers that hang off the edge of the stem at the beginning of the sweep? You took me backwards there. I'm saying I wouldn't put one together without roller rockers. Partly because I think they have to be 10 times better on the guides. And of course I think roller rockers are pretty. OH sorry Rick..I was gonna say .
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Re: 426 Hemi Valvetrain Question
[Re: cudagee]
#3103355
12/18/22 03:12 PM
12/18/22 03:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
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Does anyone know why RB did not use an offset exhaust rocker (as are his intakes and both factory intake and exhaust rockers)? Examine the (HT: 6PKRTSE: great, thanks) picture of the blue RB set. The intake shafts are parallel to each other and the crank axis, and 90° to the valve stem axis. Since the valve stems are only canted in one axis (cross plane, 90° to the crankshaft), the rotational path of the rocker's tip is in the same plane as the stem The exhaust shafts are skewed at a shallow angle (appears to be 22.5°) to attain alignment with the exhaust stem tips. When the rocker oscillates, it does not push the valve straight down, but at 90° to the shaft axis, and the roller scrubs sideways on the valve stem tip.
Ideas?
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: 426 Hemi Valvetrain Question
[Re: polyspheric]
#3103567
12/19/22 01:00 PM
12/19/22 01:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,661 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
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fredericksburg,va
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Does anyone know why RB did not use an offset exhaust rocker (as are his intakes and both factory intake and exhaust rockers)? Examine the (HT: 6PKRTSE: great, thanks) picture of the blue RB set. The intake shafts are parallel to each other and the crank axis, and 90° to the valve stem axis. Since the valve stems are only canted in one axis (cross plane, 90° to the crankshaft), the rotational path of the rocker's tip is in the same plane as the stem The exhaust shafts are skewed at a shallow angle (appears to be 22.5°) to attain alignment with the exhaust stem tips. When the rocker oscillates, it does not push the valve straight down, but at 90° to the shaft axis, and the roller scrubs sideways on the valve stem tip.
Ideas? It would be in the spark plug hole
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