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Windage Trays...for big blocks #3097483
11/27/22 10:41 AM
11/27/22 10:41 AM
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Pa
Hot 340 Offline OP
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Lots of differing opinions in the past....What is the final verdict? Dyno guys? (not talking about crank scrapers here, I know they work). What have you guys seen and which types work best?

Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: Hot 340] #3097484
11/27/22 10:51 AM
11/27/22 10:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,101
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Online content
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Loudoun County, VA
I'm using a combination of windage tray + crank scraper now. One thing I believe is the common windage trays don't have adequate drainage to help get the oil back into the sump.

With a standard OEM / MP style "short" tray, I added some vents as seen below.

7480937-Oilpanupgrade001.jpg7480939-Oilpanupgrade002.jpg

2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 (2022)
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
wheels, tires, air filter: 1.714, 11.833 at 115.80 (DA 310 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip (2008)
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: Brad_Haak] #3097486
11/27/22 10:54 AM
11/27/22 10:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,101
Loudoun County, VA
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However, I switched to a full-length style and went much further in terms of additional drain-back holes.

7480940-Oilpanupgrade015.jpg7480942-Oilpanupgrade017.jpg

2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 (2022)
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
wheels, tires, air filter: 1.714, 11.833 at 115.80 (DA 310 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip (2008)
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: Brad_Haak] #3097487
11/27/22 10:57 AM
11/27/22 10:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,101
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Online content
super stock
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Loudoun County, VA
Tray on pan, plus scraper on tray on pan

Oil pressure steady up to 7200 RPM on engine dyno

7480950-Oilpanupgrade023.jpg7480952-Oilpanupgrade025.jpg
Last edited by Brad_Haak; 11/27/22 10:58 AM.

2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 (2022)
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
wheels, tires, air filter: 1.714, 11.833 at 115.80 (DA 310 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip (2008)
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: Brad_Haak] #3097528
11/27/22 01:05 PM
11/27/22 01:05 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 511
Temperance, MI
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68 HEMI GTS Offline
mopar
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Temperance, MI
I just put a summit tray in my hemi. I also added drain backs cause I’m using a scraper as well.

27BB90F5-7DF1-4017-BAD4-D2F2B2B93828.jpeg

68 Dart GTS "HEMI" 10.30 @ 131 pump gas street car 3780#
69 Roadrunner 511 six pack 10.92 drive to track street car
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: Hot 340] #3097554
11/27/22 02:11 PM
11/27/22 02:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
polyspheric Offline
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Louvers (like a small hood scoop, as shown above) are the preferred shape for drain-back, because they work strongly in one direction (down) and resist back-flow.
Simple holes flow equally in both directions.

IDK how to determine the exact height (below the crank, above the oil level). Ideally,


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: polyspheric] #3097569
11/27/22 03:13 PM
11/27/22 03:13 PM
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north of coder
moparx Online content
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if one were to use a dimple die on the added round holes, would that resist back-flow some ?
beer

Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: moparx] #3097570
11/27/22 03:22 PM
11/27/22 03:22 PM
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A collage of whims
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The rotational pull of the crank & rods is pretty strong, so I've always adhered to the directional louver deal, which I open up a bit.
Crank scraper helps with pretty much anything you do.
Dimple-die on the round holes should help them act one-way, but a bunch of small round holes doesn't seem as effective, though they will obviously drain.
Easy enough to visualize the pan environment by rapidly stirring soup, though there's a bit more going on (pistons pumping)...

Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: moparx] #3097637
11/27/22 08:54 PM
11/27/22 08:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
polyspheric Offline
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New York
Definitely.
Best done with a tool shaped as a radius, from above, the larger the better. Th edges should point down if possible.

Round holes' area doesn't control the flow rate, since the edges are always a restriction (perhaps .020"). Bigger holes flow more in proportion to their area.

Last edited by polyspheric; 11/27/22 08:56 PM.

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Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: polyspheric] #3097644
11/27/22 09:22 PM
11/27/22 09:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,031
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline
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Do windage trays really work? How effective are they really? It just seems to me the tray would hold the oil right under the crank and cause more problems than they are worth. I never used one in my small blocks, but i do have one in my current 511 because i was told i needed it. I'm contemplating using one in the 572 Hemi.

Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: mopar dave] #3097663
11/27/22 11:16 PM
11/27/22 11:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,361
Out of the State of Confusion
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Then there's the built-in tray/baffle combo...

moroso dragster pan.jpg

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Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: mopar dave] #3097664
11/27/22 11:22 PM
11/27/22 11:22 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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I was told by one of the Mopar drag seminar engineers that Mopar had found a 5 HP increase on the 1968 383 magnum and 8 HP increase on the street Hemi and 440 magnum 375 HP 1968 motors while developing them in 1967 for both NASCAR and drag racing shruggy


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Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: Cab_Burge] #3097694
11/28/22 08:24 AM
11/28/22 08:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
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I put a tray in a 79 360 truck during a rear main seal change and could feel the difference right away.


I want my fair share
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: SomeCarGuy] #3097727
11/28/22 11:04 AM
11/28/22 11:04 AM
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Posts: 9,810
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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The scraper and a tray do basicly the same job. The scraper is better at removing the oil clinging to the crank. Your talking .060" clearance to rotating parts vs inches. The tray can't get close enough to do that. The tray does keep the rotating oil and crank action from upsetting the oil in the pan. Heck I use a hand fitted scraper, directional screen in the pan, multiple baffles, trap doors, and a swinging pick up.
Doug

20220402_182304.jpg
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: dvw] #3097739
11/28/22 11:34 AM
11/28/22 11:34 AM
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MN
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MN
Originally Posted by dvw
The scraper and a tray do basicly the same job. The scraper is better at removing the oil clinging to the crank. Your talking .060" clearance to rotating parts vs inches. The tray can't get close enough to do that. The tray does keep the rotating oil and crank action from upsetting the oil in the pan. Heck I use a hand fitted scraper, directional screen in the pan, multiple baffles, trap doors, and a swinging pick up.
Doug


Those scrapers are nice. To bad I never received the one I ordered a year ago.


69 GTX 68 Road Runner
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: JERICOGTX] #3097760
11/28/22 12:40 PM
11/28/22 12:40 PM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Originally Posted by JERICOGTX
Originally Posted by dvw
The scraper and a tray do basicly the same job. The scraper is better at removing the oil clinging to the crank. Your talking .060" clearance to rotating parts vs inches. The tray can't get close enough to do that. The tray does keep the rotating oil and crank action from upsetting the oil in the pan. Heck I use a hand fitted scraper, directional screen in the pan, multiple baffles, trap doors, and a swinging pick up.
Doug


Those scrapers are nice. To bad I never received the one I ordered a year ago.

Call Kevin. I found him pretty easy to deal with.
Doug

Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: JERICOGTX] #3097766
11/28/22 01:08 PM
11/28/22 01:08 PM
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Minnesota
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Originally Posted by JERICOGTX


Those scrapers are nice. To bad I never received the one I ordered a year ago.

72e8iz.jpg

[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
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Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: dvw] #3097791
11/28/22 02:12 PM
11/28/22 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dvw
Originally Posted by JERICOGTX
Originally Posted by dvw
The scraper and a tray do basicly the same job. The scraper is better at removing the oil clinging to the crank. Your talking .060" clearance to rotating parts vs inches. The tray can't get close enough to do that. The tray does keep the rotating oil and crank action from upsetting the oil in the pan. Heck I use a hand fitted scraper, directional screen in the pan, multiple baffles, trap doors, and a swinging pick up.
Doug


Those scrapers are nice. To bad I never received the one I ordered a year ago.

Call Kevin. I found him pretty easy to deal with.
Doug


That is who I talked with. Easy to talk with... Never received what I ordered...


69 GTX 68 Road Runner
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: blue_stocker] #3097806
11/28/22 02:53 PM
11/28/22 02:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,296
north of coder
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"Butt Crack Bob"
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north of coder
Originally Posted by blue_stocker
Then there's the built-in tray/baffle combo...



kind of what i had in mind with the dimple die used on the holes. up
how does that setup work for you ?
beer

Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: JERICOGTX] #3097810
11/28/22 03:09 PM
11/28/22 03:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,101
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Online content
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Originally Posted by JERICOGTX
Originally Posted by dvw

Call Kevin. I found him pretty easy to deal with.
Doug


That is who I talked with. Easy to talk with... Never received what I ordered...

It took me a couple of "reminder" calls to get one of the two I have. Like the product, but time to deliver was... unpredictable.


2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 (2022)
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
wheels, tires, air filter: 1.714, 11.833 at 115.80 (DA 310 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip (2008)
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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