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572 on the dyno! Fun day! #3096633
11/23/22 06:32 PM
11/23/22 06:32 PM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline OP
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A Moparts member, Larry Curtis, AKA lowflyingDart, built this 572 cu in iron block motor for a local racer.
4.5 bore 4.5 stroke, 14.5 compression, .043 top and 2nd rings. Comp roller with 284/296/112 cam in at 112, with . 836 gross intake lift, .824 ex lift. Intake lobe is a 24140b Comp, forgot the exhaust.Fuel ended up being VP c14+, which produced a few more hp (7?) Than c14. Timing ended at 37 degrees for best power. Carb is a 1250 Dominater, with a one inch high cloverleaf spacer on top of the Indy 3X. If there is a revised 3x, this would be it, new in 2022. Heads are 385cnc 572-13, with a minor touchup at the valve boss area to remove a small lip left by the cnc cutter. The final power pulls with 2 1/4 dyno headers are 962 hp. We tried my 2 1/8 step to 2 1/4 with merge collecters, and gained a few hp, to 967 hp and the increase was from 6000 rpm to 7200. I was very happy to see my headers produce more power than the dyno headers. Mine have a 4 inch collecter with 3 inch merge ( choke) and primarys are 30 inch. Larry was hoping for 950 hp, and considering leaks kept vacuum to a best of 4 inch, it is assumed this motor will make 980 hp when vacuum is up to 10+ inch. All in all, a very good result, IMHO!
I am happy to see this power level, as i have a similar build. Mine will be 550 cu in, but will have narrower . 9mm (.036) rings, ported 3X, methanol, terminater 2500 cfm injection, and the heads are cnc385 572-13 with extra port work by Larry Smith, and a similar duration @.050 cam, but . 032 more intake lift and more duration at . 200 lobe lift. My intake valves have no back cut, so it will be interesting to see how that works

PXL_20221123_193858411~2.jpgPXL_20221123_185436529.MP~4.jpg
Last edited by gregsdart; 11/23/22 06:44 PM.

8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: 572 on the dyno! Fun day! [Re: gregsdart] #3096635
11/23/22 06:46 PM
11/23/22 06:46 PM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline OP
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Max Gromski, owner/ operater of R&R dyno service, is great to work with. SUPER FLOW902 dyno. Thats Max in the second pic

Last edited by gregsdart; 11/23/22 06:46 PM.

8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: 572 on the dyno! Fun day! [Re: gregsdart] #3096639
11/23/22 07:00 PM
11/23/22 07:00 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Looks like it wants a bigger carb

Re: 572 on the dyno! Fun day! [Re: gregsdart] #3096643
11/23/22 07:12 PM
11/23/22 07:12 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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NIce!!
Hangs on good right to the end up


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 572 on the dyno! Fun day! [Re: fast68plymouth] #3096652
11/23/22 08:02 PM
11/23/22 08:02 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
NIce!!
Hangs on good right to the end up

Me thinks it wasn't done work
I've seen several BB Mopars slow down and flatten out below the actual peak and then make more power 300 RPM after flattening out.
I now make sure the motor HP is going downhill by 500 RPM after the actual peak HP on all the engines that I dyno test now twocents scope up

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 11/25/22 01:11 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 572 on the dyno! Fun day! [Re: gregsdart] #3096900
11/24/22 05:55 PM
11/24/22 05:55 PM
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Western NC
440Jim Online work
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Originally Posted by gregsdart
The final power pulls with 2 1/4 dyno headers are 962 hp. We tried my 2 1/8 step to 2 1/4 with merge collecters, and gained a few hp, to 967 hp and the increase was from 6000 rpm to 7200. I was very happy to see my headers produce more power than the dyno headers. Mine have a 4 inch collecter with 3 inch merge ( choke) and primarys are 30 inch.

First, thanks for posting the dyno results and engine combo.
Second, nice to see your header build worked well. I am guessing the extra HP was mainly due to the shorter primary tubes. But other differences can contribute. And 5 hp more at basically all RPMs that you will use at the track is a nice improvement (no downside).

Re: 572 on the dyno! Fun day! [Re: gregsdart] #3096959
11/25/22 06:58 AM
11/25/22 06:58 AM
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A shed in England
Tig Offline
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Good numbers up According to wallace our 580 (4.530 x 4.50) 12.5:1 makes 920hp (on a good day) it's very similar (even the headers) but with a T/R and 2 x 1150. We use an Indy cm 3 cam with 1.6 arms which works out at .768" gross lift. I'm considering switching to 1.7 arms (.816" lift) ..... so maybe a 25-30hp increase shruggy
Does anybody think it would be worth it ? Apologies for the hijack. Some car info below in sig.
TIA.


'74 Challenger..9.46 and 145.9 so far. 4023lb!!!# N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @142.4 with our old mule 580 wedge
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: 572 on the dyno! Fun day! [Re: 440Jim] #3096976
11/25/22 08:54 AM
11/25/22 08:54 AM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline OP
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Jim, the huge upside was my new headers outperformed the dyno 2 1 /4 headers by 7 hp, and those dyno headers outperformed my original headers on a previous build by about 10 hp. So a guestimate is, the new pipes might have a 15 hp to 25 hp edge over my old set.


8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: 572 on the dyno! Fun day! [Re: Tig] #3096977
11/25/22 09:01 AM
11/25/22 09:01 AM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline OP
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Tig, a rocker change might not increase power that much. A lot depends on the cam profile and duration. Do you know the . 050 duration and . 200 lobe lift duration of the cm3 cam? It is possible the tunnelram may not perform as good as a 3x intake. I am not sure, but heard Indy made changes to the 3x recently.
I So much depends on the chassis and driveline, anything not just right and it drops the estimated power output. So i don't think most calculaters are spot on.

Last edited by gregsdart; 11/25/22 09:12 AM.

8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: 572 on the dyno! Fun day! [Re: gregsdart] #3096984
11/25/22 09:25 AM
11/25/22 09:25 AM
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Motor City
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Good numbers. I always like a good dyno day.


1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4
2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
Re: 572 on the dyno! Fun day! [Re: 6PKRTSE] #3097013
11/25/22 11:29 AM
11/25/22 11:29 AM
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Washington
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madscientist Offline
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Hey Greg, what was the correction factor that day?


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: 572 on the dyno! Fun day! [Re: gregsdart] #3097015
11/25/22 11:35 AM
11/25/22 11:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
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A shed in England
Tig Offline
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Tig  Offline
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Originally Posted by gregsdart
Tig, a rocker change might not increase power that much. A lot depends on the cam profile and duration. Do you know the . 050 duration and . 200 lobe lift duration of the cm3 cam? It is possible the tunnelram may not perform as good as a 3x intake. I am not sure, but heard Indy made changes to the 3x recently.
I So much depends on the chassis and driveline, anything not just right and it drops the estimated power output. So i don't think most calculaters are spot on.


The duration @ .050 is 284in / 300ex, .480" / .450" lobe lift. 108 / 116 CL. Don't know the duration @ .200". We picked up a little going from the 3X and a 1250 to the T/R with 2 x 1150 dominators. The 3X used to run 1 and 2 lean, porting improved it but did'nt eliminate it entirely. The T/R seems to have better fuel distribution. Agree on the chassis but in defense it seems to work well for the weight of the car, 1.37 on the back wheels and 1.32 when it's not, I'd be surprised if it made over 920 on a dyno.


'74 Challenger..9.46 and 145.9 so far. 4023lb!!!# N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @142.4 with our old mule 580 wedge
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: 572 on the dyno! Fun day! [Re: madscientist] #3097048
11/25/22 01:11 PM
11/25/22 01:11 PM
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Pattison Texas
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Originally Posted by madscientist
Hey Greg, what was the correction factor that day?


7100 corrected made 967, uncorrected would be 904 using the the lb fuel & bsfc


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392

Re: 572 on the dyno! Fun day! [Re: Tig] #3097053
11/25/22 01:19 PM
11/25/22 01:19 PM
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UK
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Originally Posted by Tig
Originally Posted by gregsdart
Tig, a rocker change might not increase power that much. A lot depends on the cam profile and duration. Do you know the . 050 duration and . 200 lobe lift duration of the cm3 cam? It is possible the tunnelram may not perform as good as a 3x intake. I am not sure, but heard Indy made changes to the 3x recently.
I So much depends on the chassis and driveline, anything not just right and it drops the estimated power output. So i don't think most calculaters are spot on.


The duration @ .050 is 284in / 300ex, .480" / .450" lobe lift. 108 / 116 CL. Don't know the duration @ .200". We picked up a little going from the 3X and a 1250 to the T/R with 2 x 1150 dominators. The 3X used to run 1 and 2 lean, porting improved it but did'nt eliminate it entirely. The T/R seems to have better fuel distribution. Agree on the chassis but in defense it seems to work well for the weight of the car, 1.37 on the back wheels and 1.32 when it's not, I'd be surprised if it made over 920 on a dyno.


What I get from Wallace@938fwhp/4023lbs

60 Foot E.T. : 1.32 Seconds
1/8 Mile E.T. : 5.97 Seconds
1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 113.79 MPH
1/4 Mile E.T. : 9.47 Seconds
1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 142 MPH


1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990
1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
Re: 572 on the dyno! Fun day! [Re: rb446] #3097065
11/25/22 02:01 PM
11/25/22 02:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,711
A shed in England
Tig Offline
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Tig  Offline
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A shed in England
Originally Posted by rb446
Originally Posted by Tig
Originally Posted by gregsdart
Tig, a rocker change might not increase power that much. A lot depends on the cam profile and duration. Do you know the . 050 duration and . 200 lobe lift duration of the cm3 cam? It is possible the tunnelram may not perform as good as a 3x intake. I am not sure, but heard Indy made changes to the 3x recently.
I So much depends on the chassis and driveline, anything not just right and it drops the estimated power output. So i don't think most calculaters are spot on.


The duration @ .050 is 284in / 300ex, .480" / .450" lobe lift. 108 / 116 CL. Don't know the duration @ .200". We picked up a little going from the 3X and a 1250 to the T/R with 2 x 1150 dominators. The 3X used to run 1 and 2 lean, porting improved it but did'nt eliminate it entirely. The T/R seems to have better fuel distribution. Agree on the chassis but in defense it seems to work well for the weight of the car, 1.37 on the back wheels and 1.32 when it's not, I'd be surprised if it made over 920 on a dyno.


What I get from Wallace@938fwhp/4023lbs

60 Foot E.T. : 1.32 Seconds
1/8 Mile E.T. : 5.97 Seconds
1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 113.79 MPH
1/4 Mile E.T. : 9.47 Seconds
1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 142 MPH


It's not too far off those figures. Best are 1.32, 6.00 & 9.51. MPH is marginally better at both increments, we've been over 114 at the 1/8th a couple of times and just over 142 in the 1/4. Wallace gave me 900 and 920 going off weight, best et and mph. I think the motor is pretty much around 900 but it's never been dyno'd.


'74 Challenger..9.46 and 145.9 so far. 4023lb!!!# N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @142.4 with our old mule 580 wedge
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: 572 on the dyno! Fun day! [Re: csk] #3097099
11/25/22 05:17 PM
11/25/22 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by csk
Originally Posted by madscientist
Hey Greg, what was the correction factor that day?


7100 corrected made 967, uncorrected would be 904 using the the lb fuel & bsfc



Thank you


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: 572 on the dyno! Fun day! [Re: madscientist] #3097475
11/27/22 09:07 AM
11/27/22 09:07 AM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Not sure, air was good, operater said actual power 7 hp lower than corrected


8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: 572 on the dyno! Fun day! [Re: gregsdart] #3097478
11/27/22 09:14 AM
11/27/22 09:14 AM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Tig, that is great performance for 4000+ lbs! Off your performance only, sounds like Wallace is conservative when comparing to dyno hp. What trans and rpm shift points? I am assuming most race days you see DA under 500 to 800 feet?

Last edited by gregsdart; 11/27/22 09:16 AM.

8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: 572 on the dyno! Fun day! [Re: gregsdart] #3097588
11/27/22 04:03 PM
11/27/22 04:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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A shed in England
Tig Offline
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Originally Posted by gregsdart
Tig, that is great performance for 4000+ lbs! Off your performance only, sounds like Wallace is conservative when comparing to dyno hp. What trans and rpm shift points? I am assuming most race days you see DA under 500 to 800 feet?

Thanks up, we're using a home built 727, it has good stuff in it, we've broke quite a bit of stuff in there over the years grin . Manually shifting at 6700 and letting it do what it does through the lights usually works out best.
We're going to change the converter for next season, we were definitely blowing through it after a gear change from 4:10 to 3.73 (done to stop the big wheelies). Stall has gone up to 6000 (from 5200) and slip is 16% at the line. Car has always been heavy, it's a European market '74 and weighed 3700lb with me and a 318 in it blush
We can see -ve D/A first thing in the morning spring and fall, it's normally around the 1000 - 1200ft though, on my ET predictor.


'74 Challenger..9.46 and 145.9 so far. 4023lb!!!# N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @142.4 with our old mule 580 wedge
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03






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