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Re: 440 gas millage [Re: cudaman1969] #3096403
11/22/22 07:40 PM
11/22/22 07:40 PM
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So Near, Yet So Far
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I don't know if any of my 440s - or 383s, for that matter - in stock or near-stock form did better or worse than 14 MPG average.
All except 2 B-bodies, with the 2 being C-bodies.
Not that I was concerned about MPG, really, so I don't recall checking only highway MPG on the BBs.
My SB cars did better, as much as 17-18 highway MPG when I checked.

Re: 440 gas millage [Re: cudaman1969] #3096791
11/24/22 11:03 AM
11/24/22 11:03 AM
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Pikes Peak Country
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72 D series 1 ton crew cab, 4:11 rear, 33" tall tires, 727 trans. When I first got it, single digit mileage all the time, everywhere. After a rebuild, it began averaging mid teens in the city, high teens towing a trailer with a car on it on the highway. One extended unloaded trip from Denver to Phoenix, it broke 20.

The rebuild was nothing too spectacular. Basic rebuild with a balance job and as close to blueprinted as I could get. Used KB quench pad pistons with open chamber heads and ended up with a bit over 11:1. Smallish camshaft that had a little more lift than stock. Heads had a bowl blend. Also used dry film lube on all bearings and piston skirts and thermal coatings on piston tops and head chambers and valve faces. Ebrock performer intake and carb. Spent a lot of time dialing in the ignition curve.

Required pump premium to stay out of detonation. It was a towing beast in the mountains of CO. I could pass cars going up the pass to Eisenhower tunnel while carrying a load. The trip to Phoenix was a steady enough drive to really gauge fuel consumption and speed. Did the best at 75-80 mph range despite taching up higher than I wanted. Unfortunately, the high compression that gave it so much power and efficiency at elevation in CO was its undoing once in Phoenix. Detonation was a constant problem and I hurt it while I was there. Later pulled it apart and found a cracked piston. Rebuilt it at a lower 10:1 ratio. Performance and mileage was down as a result, but it also would live on lower octane.

Re: 440 gas millage [Re: TC@HP2] #3096796
11/24/22 11:14 AM
11/24/22 11:14 AM
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nowhere
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I wonder if methanol injection would have helped?

Re: 440 gas millage [Re: Sniper] #3096800
11/24/22 11:21 AM
11/24/22 11:21 AM
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Florida
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Wow, I guess my 340 really sucks.
Never got better than 12mpg and "jumped" to a best of 16-17 after I added 518 OD.
And you guys are getting 20 or more in B and C bodies, just amazing.

Re: 440 gas millage [Re: BDW] #3096871
11/24/22 03:48 PM
11/24/22 03:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 17,240
north of coder
moparx Offline
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i forgot about the 73 4x4 yard truck i had.
it was an original 318 2bbl/727, 3.91 gear, 32" tires.
with that engine, the best was about 8mpg.
with that said, it had a big "basher bumper" on the front made of 3" pipe and 1/8" plate.
the stock bed was made of 1/8" plate as well, had a 2" oak plank floor, and a 3" pipe roll bar.
total weight was about 7000lb empty.
put a 440 in it out of a 1970 chrysler wagon that was in the yard, added an rv torque type cam, and a thermo-quad intake from a late 70's [78 maybe ?] newyorker, plus using a big block 727 case during the rebuild, and using the output shaft and tail shaft of the small block 727. this allowed the original transmission mount and drive shaft to the transfer case to be re-used, and just needing 1/2 x 3" wide plates as spacers with properly drilled holes to bolt to the modified 318 block mounts and the factory frame mounts.
just changing the engine went from about 8mpg to 14 plus a couple of points. up
i chalk that up to the 440 not working as hard to pull the weight of the truck compared to the 318.
unfortunately, i had to sell that truck to use the money for the paperwork needed when i bought my stupid house.
on a bright note, however, the family that bought my truck still own it today. it has been used as a pulling truck, a mud truck, and a street truck in the time they have owned it, and it still retains the engine and transmission i installed so long ago, as well as the "basher bumper" and bed i built. boogie
beer

Re: 440 gas millage [Re: moparx] #3096928
11/24/22 10:02 PM
11/24/22 10:02 PM
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Posts: 9,546
Freeport IL USA
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I had a 74 Dodge extended cab 1 ton, Camper Special, non-dual open 4:10 gear, rear drive with a 440 and a 727. It had a wood topper on the bed with the top even with the top of the cab. The truck spent most of its time towing an open wheel car trailer. The truck and trailer empty with full fuel tanks weighed 9800 lbs. I had a 66 gallon bus tank in the bed, and the truck had dual Mopar installed gas tanks, just over 100 gallons when everything was full. 8 mpg, always! Empty, loaded for bear, and even with no trailer. I think I got 9 once, I figured I didn't get the tank full. I put nearly 150K miles on the brute. Even with all the weight, and a car on the trailer, the truck had power. When the truck was pulling the 6 mile long 7% grade with a Chrysler 300F on the trailer and parts in the bed, gas mileage was the least of your concerns.

The best gas mileage I ever got out of a Dodge truck (before the 90s Dakota with OD) was with a 400 4v powered old power wagon that didn't have much of the 4x4 stuff remaining. That one was consistently in the 13 -14 mpg range. 360s always got the worst gas mileage (about 2mpg worse) than any other Mopar motor except that 440 truck, but I suspect the 440 truck would have been worse if it would have had a 360,

Re: 440 gas millage [Re: poorboy] #3096951
11/25/22 02:46 AM
11/25/22 02:46 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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The best gas mileage i can remember hearing of back in the day was around14.+ MPG on the road, not around town tsk grin
I bought a used 1969 CHP Polara in the summer of 1969 that had a blown up 440 police pursuit motor, I think it had spun a rod bearing and I later rebuilt it with turning the crank and a set of rings and bearings
I bought a wreck, totaled roll over, 1965 Sport Fury 2 that had 19,500 on the speedometer, it had a 383 two barrel motor in it to install in the Polara to use as a family car, the best mileage I can remember that car getting was around 14.5 driving from SO CA to central Utah 850 miles away.
I learned later my wife could get better fuel mileage driving anything we owned on long distance trips, more than 50 miles. We had a 26 Ft. Class a Ute Liner motor home that she could get 8.5 MPG on the same road and traffic conditions that I got 5.5 MPG blush shruggy
I would drive it from our home out to the first rest stop to wherever we were going in it and then she would drive it the rest of the way. She didn't like driving it in town shruggy
Ultimately the right foot controls the fuel mileage, heavy foot bad mileage, light gentle foot better mileage up work

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 11/25/22 01:00 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 440 gas millage [Re: Sniper] #3097038
11/25/22 12:55 PM
11/25/22 12:55 PM
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Pikes Peak Country
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Originally Posted by Sniper
I wonder if methanol injection would have helped?


No doubt it would have solved the problem and allowed me to keep the higher ratio. I didn't want to get into it because I arrived at a decision point to sell it and a two seat sports car for a newer crew cab truck. While I certainly do miss the cool factor of towing into an event with a vintage crew cab, I really love my new Ram which does everything the two previously owned cars did and does it better, in more comfort, with fewer issues. Although mileage typically isn't significantly better than it was with my old truck combo.


A great tool for improving mileage is to use a vacuum gauge. Try to keep the vacuum reading high and your mileage will follow.

Re: 440 gas millage [Re: TC@HP2] #3097045
11/25/22 01:08 PM
11/25/22 01:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
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north of coder
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the old "mileage minder" gauge with the green, yellow, and red sections on the face. biggrin
beer

Re: 440 gas millage [Re: moparx] #3097327
11/26/22 04:09 PM
11/26/22 04:09 PM
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Posts: 3,840
Richmond, Indiana
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I average between 8 and 10 mpg with this stunning example of automotive efficiency.

Crew chief Petredis.jpg

1970 340 swinger. sublime
1967 barracuda fastback BB
55 Plymouth Project
Re: 440 gas millage [Re: 67vertman] #3097459
11/27/22 07:49 AM
11/27/22 07:49 AM
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USA
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I wonder how the fuel efficiency of a 440 V8 with EFI would compare to a modern effort like Ford’s 7.3 V8

That Dyno test comparison would probably never get funded today.

I do see a surprising number of shipping containers on open trailers being hauled on the interstates by 3500 size pickups.

I guess this is because of a shortage of “fixtures” that 18 wheelers almost exclusively used to deliver shipping containers “the last miles” to customers.

With today’s abnormally high diesel prices I have wondered if gasoline 3500 pickups could deliver shipping containers at a lower cost per mile than a modern diesel that also requires buying DEF..

Swap in a big cubic inch 440 stroker with EFI running a 20 to 1 AFR into a 1994 Ram Dually and see?

What transmission (or camshaft) would be another challenge....

Re: 440 gas millage [Re: 360view] #3097488
11/27/22 10:09 AM
11/27/22 10:09 AM
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fredericksburg,va
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I know I asked about 440 millage but that’s in a 79 truck. What I would do on the newer trucks is get a 392 engine like what's in my 15 SRT, to replace a 5.7. I’m getting 25 mpg in the car and weight should be close between the two, has anyone done this? Not talking about the ‘truck’ 392 dog.

Re: 440 gas millage [Re: 360view] #3097520
11/27/22 11:48 AM
11/27/22 11:48 AM
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Irving, TX
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Originally Posted by 360view
I wonder how the fuel efficiency of a 440 V8 with EFI would compare to a modern effort like Ford’s 7.3 V8

That Dyno test comparison would probably never get funded today.


It would be pointless. Today's engine architecture is vastly superior to the 50s era technology used to build the big wedge.

Compare a 5.7 hemi and a 318/340/360. The new stuff makes much more power and gets far better economy.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
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Re: 440 gas millage [Re: 360view] #3097523
11/27/22 11:51 AM
11/27/22 11:51 AM
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Pikes Peak Country
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Originally Posted by 360view
I wonder how the fuel efficiency of a 440 V8 with EFI would compare to a modern effort like Ford’s 7.3 V8

That Dyno test comparison would probably never get funded today.

I do see a surprising number of shipping containers on open trailers being hauled on the interstates by 3500 size pickups.

I guess this is because of a shortage of “fixtures” that 18 wheelers almost exclusively used to deliver shipping containers “the last miles” to customers.

With today’s abnormally high diesel prices I have wondered if gasoline 3500 pickups could deliver shipping containers at a lower cost per mile than a modern diesel that also requires buying DEF..

Swap in a big cubic inch 440 stroker with EFI running a 20 to 1 AFR into a 1994 Ram Dually and see?

What transmission (or camshaft) would be another challenge....


While not specifically 440 based, there have been numerous carb vs efi tests on performance engines over the years. The vast majority of them have shown that power and efficiency between the two is actually very narrow, if you spend the time to optimize all the circuits of the carb. Carbs actually make just a bit more power while efi has slightly better BSFC numbers. Of course, at the OEM level where a fleet number matters, even a .5% increase in mileage has big implications over the selling of a million + cars. Often the failing point with a number of enthusiasts is that they only work on the carb until it is "good enough" for power production and never dial it in to the Nth degree for high vacuum, low throttle angle, cruising at a steady speed. I also seem to recall reading that the biggest advantage of the efi is at start up and cold temp operation where it avoids fuel washdown of the cylinder walls and the resulting dilution of the oil that carbs have a very hard time achieving.

Whether a gas big block could become as economically equivalent to a diesel for hauling, perhaps over a short time and perhaps only in 3500/4500 chassis and smaller. I doubt the gas engine will have the longevity to offset the diesel's capability so periodic rebuilds would tilt the longer term savings back to the diesel. I also suspect that in truly heavy duty applications, like over the road trucking pulling 53', fully loaded trailers, the gas engine would need to displace so much, that its fuel consumption would sharply fall against the diesel. There is a reason why OEMs haven't tried this yet and that because even at higher prices, the diesel engine is still an efficient way to perform this work.

Originally Posted by cudaman1969
I know I asked about 440 millage but that’s in a 79 truck. What I would do on the newer trucks is get a 392 engine like what's in my 15 SRT, to replace a 5.7. I’m getting 25 mpg in the car and weight should be close between the two, has anyone done this? Not talking about the ‘truck’ 392 dog.


Hmmm, I bet there is a bigger gap in weight between these than you think. SRTs are around what 4500-4800#? My '09 Ram crew cab short box is 6000#. I'm willing to bet a 3500 is easily over 7000# I'd also venture a guess that the 25 mpg you see is on cylinder deactivation while cruising on level ground. My Ram will hit 20 in those same situations, unless I'm hauling. While towing a load, its rare that my truck ever hits deactivation mode. Pulling my 20' boat, my mileage drops to low teens. I haven't towed any of my cars for any extended period to compare, but they outweigh my boat by around 1000-1300#, so I'm willing to bet my truck mileage would drop towing them for hours at a time.


Re: 440 gas millage [Re: cudaman1969] #3097525
11/27/22 11:55 AM
11/27/22 11:55 AM
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Irving, TX
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The 72 Imperial with its CA smog motor, 3.23 gears, and 29" tires knocked down 15 mpg a few times. I doubt the 541 will do that. biggrin

My old hot rod did fairly well. 65 Belvedere twin turbo efi 440 with 833 OD, 3.23 gears, and 29" tire got 19 mpg running 65-70.

Back in 2001 we did one of the prototype TKO transmission swaps in a 70 440+6 RoadRunner with 3.54 gears. On the drive from Dallas to the Nats he got 17 mpg at 65 mph and 18 mpg at 75 mph. We think the engine was being lugged down too much at the lower speed.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: 440 gas millage [Re: feets] #3097592
11/27/22 04:33 PM
11/27/22 04:33 PM
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The official DaimlerChrysler press release said the 2004 5.7 Hemi was
“6% more fuel efficient than the Magnum 5.9V8”

They did not explain whether that was
6% more fuel efficient at peak torque (traditional SAE comparison)
or 6% more fuel efficient in the (somewhat crazy) EPA dyno fuel economy test.

That odd year I believe you could get either engine in a Ram, but auto trans differed.

With the roughly 55 year difference
I would guess 0.5% per year improvement
between a 440 V8 and a 7.3 V8
but the super strict NOx emissions the 7.3 has to meet is a “heavy burden”
and the ethanol in today’s gasoline has to be factored in.

Re: 440 gas millage [Re: feets] #3097691
11/28/22 05:46 AM
11/28/22 05:46 AM
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Anchorage, Alaska
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Originally Posted by feets
...Back in 2001 we did one of the prototype TKO transmission swaps in a 70 440+6 RoadRunner with 3.54 gears. On the drive from Dallas to the Nats he got 17 mpg at 65 mph and 18 mpg at 75 mph. We think the engine was being lugged down too much at the lower speed.


I bet with 4.10+ gears and the same cruise RPM that was used @ 75 would net some good MPG gains drive


440, 4-Speed, 3.54
1968, when Dinosaurs ruled the Earth
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