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Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: justinp61] #3073384
09/01/22 06:52 PM
09/01/22 06:52 PM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline OP
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Originally Posted by justinp61
Greg, you could always have Brett Miller build you a raunchy 1000hp small block. whistling biggrin

This was posted in jest of course.

Let's see, 75 lbs less on a frontend that will be too light by 200 lbs, already, 30 Gs for the motor? It would be fun!


8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: gregsdart] #3073482
09/02/22 07:25 AM
09/02/22 07:25 AM
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Fort Scott, KS
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They asked we didn't share all the cam specs. We'll just say that Lift is over the mid .800's and duration close to 300. We brought our own fuel, Renegade 116 Pro +. It made power identical to VP C14 & is about $100 a barrel cheaper. Motor ended up real close to 15.5 on compression, but chambers were clear down to 58cc for that.

Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: Cab_Burge] #3073492
09/02/22 07:39 AM
09/02/22 07:39 AM
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Fort Scott, KS
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They fought oil pressure with vacuum on this motor from the start. Dad had sent them a brand new Moroso enhanced 4 vane, and it was struggling to stay in the 50's down lower on pressure. Talked to some different reputable builders and they said they have had motors that just don't like vacuum pumps and never can figure out why. They made a pull without the belt on the pump and pressure started in the upper 70's and made it into the 80's later in the pull. So we just sent them his old 3 vane we have been running. And no, they never pulled it any farther, kind of 1 of those caught up in the moment things where I wish we would have had them so I knew how many hp difference per 100 it was going to be in case I missed a shift by just a little (As far as consistency goes). Will see how it runs hopefully tomorrow, hope the chassis handles it ok and we are able to get it down the track with rebound adjustments on the shocks and not get into 4 link bar changes.

Last edited by 67CudaRacer; 09/02/22 07:41 AM.
Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: 67CudaRacer] #3095046
11/17/22 04:39 PM
11/17/22 04:39 PM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline OP
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Well, back at it. A little at a time. It is hard to focus at times, so i am taking it slow. Got the cam dialed back in, after finding i had to clearance the block more for pushrod clearance. I didn't expect this, after running half inch and 7/16 pushrods in my megablock. But it took removing about . 060 in a couple of spots for intake pushrods, less in others. Not sure how 440-1 heads and pusheods would fit, never checked. Compression will be 14.6 to 1. The cam is in at 111 int C L, where Jones spec'ed it. Valve to piston clearance is very generous, at . 180 intake, .165 exhaust.
The . 9 mm rings are definately delicate, not like the older combos! At . 036 thick, i worried about breakinng one! But onward to finishing the assembly. Then dyno time!

PXL_20221116_213001247~2.jpg
Last edited by gregsdart; 11/17/22 04:51 PM.

8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: gregsdart] #3095151
11/18/22 05:50 AM
11/18/22 05:50 AM
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MN
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Glad to see you back at it Greg. I had to clearance my INDY block as well for the intake pushrods. Hope to see you at the track this next year.


69 GTX 68 Road Runner
Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: gregsdart] #3095173
11/18/22 09:49 AM
11/18/22 09:49 AM
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Indiana
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Does anyone know why - what the ( X ) is for in Greg's picture on his CNC heads ? This is also on my CNC heads but never knew why Indy placed it there . Gary

Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: Gabby63] #3095204
11/18/22 11:44 AM
11/18/22 11:44 AM
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Heaven
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Keep plugging away at it Greg! Excellent results and HUGE smiles coming.......


"Any fool can know. The point is to understand"

- A. Einstein
Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: gregsdart] #3095218
11/18/22 12:42 PM
11/18/22 12:42 PM
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Western NC
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Originally Posted by gregsdart
... after finding i had to clearance the block more for pushrod clearance. I didn't expect this, after running half inch and 7/16 pushrods in my megablock. But it took removing about . 060 in a couple of spots for intake pushrods, less in others.

Here is the place I clearanced my BMP block for 7/16" dia pushrod clearance, B1 offset rockers (1.7), and lifters with the offset pushrod seat.
It took a couple mockups and checks to get this right. Even the amount of rocker adjuster sticking out changes the clearance.

PushrodClearance1_labels.jpg

1993 Daytona, 1973 Cuda 440, 2009 Challenger 5.7 Hemi, 2015 RAM 1500 5.7 Hemi 8-speed auto, Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: 440Jim] #3095316
11/18/22 05:46 PM
11/18/22 05:46 PM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline OP
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Jim, same exact clearance problems. I missed your post, so had to back up. Pull the cam and crank, grind away, clean up, re assemble. Wes, thanks for the encouragement. It has been a battle to mentally get going after losing the love of my life, 😥, but i will get going again. Jeff, that sure is the goal! See you at BIR?


8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: Gabby63] #3095428
11/19/22 07:30 AM
11/19/22 07:30 AM
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A shed in England
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Originally Posted by Gabby63
Does anyone know why - what the ( X ) is for in Greg's picture on his CNC heads ? This is also on my CNC heads but never knew why Indy placed it there . Gary


I was once told by Indy or an Indy dealer it stood for "experimental" shruggy


'74 Challenger..9.46 and 145.9 so far. 4023lb!!!# N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @142.4 with our old mule 580 wedge
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: Tig] #3095885
11/20/22 08:42 PM
11/20/22 08:42 PM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline OP
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Inching forward, slowly. I managed to get the shortblock rotating assembly together, and found the passenger side deck is . 007 higher than the drivers side. Cylinders 1,3,5,7 are - . 007 to -. 010 deck height, cylinders 2,4,6,8 are -.014 to -.017 below deck. I swapped cylinders 2 and 3 rod and piston, but things changed less than . 0005. So i have . 036 head gasket for the low side, .027 for the other side. So thats the way it will be.
I found i had a left over circlip when i installed the last piston. What the hay? So, after fretting about it, and not taking a chance, ( i had found an extra clip days ago) i started to pull the pistons and rods back out to find the piston missing a lock. I got lucky. It was #1 cylinder, first one i pulled.
I was surprised to see the 1.600 long ARP rod bolts only needed 80 to 82 ft lb torque to reach . 0064 to . 0065 stretch.
Tomorrow i can start putting the heads together, and hopefully the rest won't take to long. No dyno date set yet, but i should have everything i need finally!

Last edited by gregsdart; 11/20/22 08:44 PM.

8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: gregsdart] #3095995
11/21/22 11:04 AM
11/21/22 11:04 AM
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Shelby Twp. Mi
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It's coming around nice! Keep busy Greg, nice work.

Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: Tig] #3096028
11/21/22 12:34 PM
11/21/22 12:34 PM
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Indiana
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Wonder what they were experimenting on ?? I have seen this on several sets of heads going back a couple years . Gary

Thanks for the response .

Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: gregsdart] #3096047
11/21/22 01:26 PM
11/21/22 01:26 PM
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Western NC
440Jim Offline
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Originally Posted by gregsdart
I was surprised to see the 1.600 long ARP rod bolts only needed 80 to 82 ft lb torque to reach . 0064 to . 0065 stretch.

The torque is what it is. That is why we use the stretch gauge.
FWIW, my Molnar 7.100" rods with ARP 2000 bolts (1.60" under head length) needed 87 ft-lbs to reach the spec stretch.

Molnar7100_RodBolts-50.jpg

1993 Daytona, 1973 Cuda 440, 2009 Challenger 5.7 Hemi, 2015 RAM 1500 5.7 Hemi 8-speed auto, Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: 440Jim] #3100764
12/08/22 09:54 PM
12/08/22 09:54 PM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Jim, i use an old beam type torque wrench, which might explain the torque difference.
Got the heads together, I switched to intake springs from pac , 948 triples in at 2.060, 350 lbs seat pressure. Exhausts use Pac 1247 springs, in at 2.005, with 330 seat pressure. Matt at PAC said i am good to 8500, but i never want to twist it beyond 7600 rpm.
I ordered parts to go dual lines from pan to pump since i wanted to upgrade to a new hose, figured i might as well add the second line.


8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: 440Jim] #3100771
12/08/22 10:22 PM
12/08/22 10:22 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Originally Posted by 440Jim
Originally Posted by gregsdart
I was surprised to see the 1.600 long ARP rod bolts only needed 80 to 82 ft lb torque to reach . 0064 to . 0065 stretch.

The torque is what it is. That is why we use the stretch gauge.
FWIW, my Molnar 7.100" rods with ARP 2000 bolts (1.60" under head length) needed 87 ft-lbs to reach the spec stretch.

I want to caution everyone reading this pos that I had one of the same Molnar ARP 2000 rod bolts overstretch on the length at 55 Ft. Lbs. puke
Those instructions siad to use the torque plus 30 degrees more travel. I called Tom and he ended up saying to use between .0057 up to .0064 stretch method instead of using a straight torque setting. I called ARP and they told me to call Tom, they said his bolts are custom made to his specs and they wouldn't say anything else about replacing the bad one. I ended up buying a complete set of those bolts from him and started torquing them to 35 04 40 Ft. lbs to begin with and then work my way up to get between .0059 up to .0063. My message is start low on the torque settings and go up to from there to get the lengths you want in 3 to 5 Ft. Lb increases wrench scope up
That one bolt was the only one that did that confused I suspect the heat treating was bad on that one ONLY whiney

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/08/22 10:24 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: Cab_Burge] #3100983
12/09/22 08:54 PM
12/09/22 08:54 PM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by 440Jim
Originally Posted by gregsdart
I was surprised to see the 1.600 long ARP rod bolts only needed 80 to 82 ft lb torque to reach . 0064 to . 0065 stretch.

The torque is what it is. That is why we use the stretch gauge.
FWIW, my Molnar 7.100" rods with ARP 2000 bolts (1.60" under head length) needed 87 ft-lbs to reach the spec stretch.

I want to caution everyone reading this pos that I had one of the same Molnar ARP 2000 rod bolts overstretch on the length at 55 Ft. Lbs. puke
Those instructions siad to use the torque plus 30 degrees more travel. I called Tom and he ended up saying to use between .0057 up to .0064 stretch method instead of using a straight torque setting. I called ARP and they told me to call Tom, they said his bolts are custom made to his specs and they wouldn't say anything else about replacing the bad one. I ended up buying a complete set of those bolts from him and started torquing them to 35 04 40 Ft. lbs to begin with and then work my way up to get between .0059 up to .0063. My message is start low on the torque settings and go up to from there to get the lengths you want in 3 to 5 Ft. Lb increases wrench scope up
That one bolt was the only one that did that confused I suspect the heat treating was bad on that one ONLY whiney

Cab, sounds to me like your plan of starting at 55 ft lbs will show a bad bolt instantly . If it is stretching a lot at 55, the material isn't up to spec, period. Sound right? The steel bolt is just a lineir spring, and bolt to bolt should be quite close in stretch per lb of torque, given properly lubed bolts.

Last edited by gregsdart; 12/09/22 08:59 PM.

8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: gregsdart] #3104151
12/20/22 10:57 PM
12/20/22 10:57 PM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Got a bit closer today. All that is left is to mount the fuel pump and vacuum pump, prime the oil system,
install distributor and rear cam plug. Check the lash again and make sure oil is flowing where it needs to be. Then off to the dyno!

PXL_20221221_005539427.jpgPXL_20221221_005504929.jpg

8.77 153 mph best, 3055 lbs 528 indy 440-1 alky
Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: gregsdart] #3104222
12/21/22 11:03 AM
12/21/22 11:03 AM
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Western NC
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Good to hear. up
I look forward to the dyno numbers.
As you said, don't forget that rear cam plug...
From your other thread/topic you decided to build the 550 CID not the 580, right?
Quote
4.504 bore, 550 CID
4.315 stroke crank from Crower, with center counter weights.
Block is an aluminum BMP 4.5” bore, new block.
The heads are 572-13 385cc, with additional work by Larry Smith. Intake is a 3X, reworked by Wilson manifolds. Compression will be 14.6 with 550 cubes. Cam will be the 0.868 lift roller, 285/296/113 @ 50

Re: Quest for 1000 hp, slow going! [Re: gregsdart] #3104557
12/22/22 12:35 PM
12/22/22 12:35 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Well Greg, it sure looks like it should make 1000hp up


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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