Trick flow intake mods
#3094664
11/16/22 01:47 PM
11/16/22 01:47 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
OP
super stock
|
OP
super stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060
Loudoun County, VA
|
When we dynoed my engine a few(?) years ago, the Trick Flow intake I decided to run instead of a Victor was pretty much out of the box, except a few minutes cleanup of some casting goobers and sharp edges.
Since I also have a bone stock TF to compare against, I did some -- not a huge amount of -- work on the dynoed intake before the engine went back into the car: - a fairly deep port match to the standard-port Victor heads, since the TF runners were still a bit undersized; left the cuttered finish, FWIW - some plenum cleanup and blending, but no polishing - "bevel edged" the 5/7 divider as recommended by David Vizard to help keep #7 from robbing as much #5 since they're back-to-back in firing order
At some point when the car's been baselined, I'll swap the intakes to see if my work actually shows up on the ET slip. And then... ?
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 (2022) 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) wheels, tires, air filter: 1.714, 11.833 at 115.80 (DA 310 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip (2008) pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
|
|
|
Re: Trick flow intake mods
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3094668
11/16/22 01:51 PM
11/16/22 01:51 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
OP
super stock
|
OP
super stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060
Loudoun County, VA
|
Dividers simply rounded off of casting "stuff", except putting bevel of 5/7 to help direct air/fuel mixture into #5 while discouraging #7 from robbing #5
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 (2022) 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) wheels, tires, air filter: 1.714, 11.833 at 115.80 (DA 310 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip (2008) pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
|
|
|
Re: Trick flow intake mods
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3094715
11/16/22 03:26 PM
11/16/22 03:26 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205 New York
polyspheric
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
|
I like it. W/r/t beveled edge between 5 and 7: I agree, flow reversal is aided by an large radius in the "V", a sharp edge reduces cross-flow.
Harley-Davidson learned this in the opposite direction. In the the 1940s with a "Y" shaped manifold feeding both 45 degree cylinders (315-405 degree split), the V split was sharp. Material was added on outside and removed from inside to re-shape into a radius, this allows charge already in the non-intake manifold leg and port (up to the valve) to reverse, follow the vacuum source and flow back to the cylinder on intake.
Boffin Emeritus
|
|
|
Re: Trick flow intake mods
[Re: powertrip]
#3094736
11/16/22 04:29 PM
11/16/22 04:29 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
OP
super stock
|
OP
super stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060
Loudoun County, VA
|
I get the theory, but wouldn't you want to direct flow to #7 since #5 starts pulling on the plenum first? Does David Vizard have data that corroborates this method ( I'm guessing in a SBC ) ? The timing is that 7 starts pulling early enough that it robs from 5 before 5 is done drawing in the air-fuel charge. So ya' gotta keep as much on the 5 side and try to inhibit 7's tendency to pull from 5, too. IIRC, he says it reduces the need to stagger-jet for that corner of the intake. Makes me wonder if something should be done for the 2/1 divider, even though they're on opposing sides of the plenum.
Last edited by Brad_Haak; 11/16/22 04:32 PM.
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 (2022) 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) wheels, tires, air filter: 1.714, 11.833 at 115.80 (DA 310 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip (2008) pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
|
|
|
Re: Trick flow intake mods
[Re: powertrip]
#3094745
11/16/22 04:52 PM
11/16/22 04:52 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
OP
super stock
|
OP
super stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060
Loudoun County, VA
|
Crude diagram with original divider on top vs modified
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 (2022) 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) wheels, tires, air filter: 1.714, 11.833 at 115.80 (DA 310 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip (2008) pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
|
|
|
Re: Trick flow intake mods
[Re: powertrip]
#3094746
11/16/22 04:53 PM
11/16/22 04:53 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
OP
super stock
|
OP
super stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060
Loudoun County, VA
|
That makes sense.... but has anyone seen Wilson do that to a manifold?? Not me, but Wilson is big on extending the runner dividers, which I can see doing something similar
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 (2022) 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) wheels, tires, air filter: 1.714, 11.833 at 115.80 (DA 310 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip (2008) pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
|
|
|
Re: Trick flow intake mods
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3094833
11/16/22 11:21 PM
11/16/22 11:21 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 42,996 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 42,996
Bend,OR USA
|
I get the theory, but wouldn't you want to direct flow to #7 since #5 starts pulling on the plenum first? Does David Vizard have data that corroborates this method ( I'm guessing in a SBC ) ? The timing is that 7 starts pulling early enough that it robs from 5 before 5 is done drawing in the air-fuel charge. So ya' gotta keep as much on the 5 side and try to inhibit 7's tendency to pull from 5, too. IIRC, he says it reduces the need to stagger-jet for that corner of the intake. Makes me wonder if something should be done for the 2/1 divider, even though they're on opposing sides of the plenum. Brad, think about airflow in a small plenum, how hard will cylinder 7 have to suck on the plenum under the carb. to get the airflow to change directions from the # 5 intake runner to change it to go into the #7 runner: work: Maybe it is time to increase the intake lobe duration on # 7 cam lobe
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 11/16/22 11:22 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
|
|
|
Re: Trick flow intake mods
[Re: powertrip]
#3094882
11/17/22 08:49 AM
11/17/22 08:49 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
OP
super stock
|
OP
super stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060
Loudoun County, VA
|
Yeah, I can see where cutting a bias in the divider would work, just not sure if #5 is the one that needs help. Vizard covers this mod in one of his books; stagger jetting is discussed in his "How to Super Tune and Modify Holley Carburetors" book. I haven't messed with the jetting approach, though.
Last edited by Brad_Haak; 11/17/22 09:37 AM.
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 (2022) 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) wheels, tires, air filter: 1.714, 11.833 at 115.80 (DA 310 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip (2008) pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
|
|
|
Re: Trick flow intake mods
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3094883
11/17/22 08:51 AM
11/17/22 08:51 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
OP
super stock
|
OP
super stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060
Loudoun County, VA
|
Maybe it is time to increase the intake lobe duration on # 7 cam lobe I think it would be more duration for 5 and less for 7, since 7 robs from 5...
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 (2022) 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) wheels, tires, air filter: 1.714, 11.833 at 115.80 (DA 310 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip (2008) pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
|
|
|
Re: Trick flow intake mods
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3095032
11/17/22 04:37 PM
11/17/22 04:37 PM
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,378 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,378
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
|
To me, that's just standard port matching....I do that to all my intakes. After that, I find the more I open up the plenum, the better the HP...
Last edited by Dragula; 11/17/22 04:47 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Trick flow intake mods
[Re: Dragula]
#3095157
11/18/22 08:19 AM
11/18/22 08:19 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
OP
super stock
|
OP
super stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060
Loudoun County, VA
|
Dragula - looks good
Yeah, it's basic stuff and -- as I mentioned -- isn't a lot of work that I did. However, since I have a bone stock intake to swap, it'll be interesting to see if this minimal amount of work shows up on the ET slip. Then as the mods go from there (more plenum work, etc.), it's another level to compare against.
EDIT - Pic of plenum mods that worked well on a Victor intake. I think the TF intake probably needs a short spacer to raise the carb mounting surface to achieve the same type of approach to the top of the runners, though.
Last edited by Brad_Haak; 11/18/22 10:28 AM.
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 (2022) 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) wheels, tires, air filter: 1.714, 11.833 at 115.80 (DA 310 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip (2008) pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
|
|
|
Re: Trick flow intake mods
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3095942
11/21/22 09:54 AM
11/21/22 09:54 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,866 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,866
Weddington, N.C.
|
Brad,
With a single plane manifold, the same exact thing happens with the 2-1 firing pulse i nthe front of the motor between the banks, the cylinder drawing first has the advantage over the second pulse because the momentum is already moving in the earlier port.
I would liken it to a Bernouli effect so the "band Aid" is to first make sure the plenum is charged (which is is at it's optimum RPM) and the second is to help the second port pulse get more of a shot at the good charge.
But I think whenever the manifold is tuned and the Peak torque is matched well to the heads and induction , the plenum receives a charge which is the best guarantee all the cylinders are filling,
I used to modify Street Dominators by making the second port entry from the plenum more Trapezoidal (I used to call it "Gumby's head" lol) when looking at them side by side and with slightly more square area to the second port. It's seemed to work because the SD would usually pick up 1.5 MPH and drop the ET .1-.2 tenths on a typical low 12-high 11 B or E body.
Most recently I modded a Victor 340 in a similar way and it too picked up in terms of performance.
Interesting thread
Last edited by Streetwize; 11/21/22 09:58 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Trick flow intake mods
[Re: Streetwize]
#3096020
11/21/22 01:19 PM
11/21/22 01:19 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
OP
super stock
|
OP
super stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060
Loudoun County, VA
|
Even if it's just interesting to you and me?
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 (2022) 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) wheels, tires, air filter: 1.714, 11.833 at 115.80 (DA 310 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip (2008) pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
|
|
|
Re: Trick flow intake mods
[Re: Streetwize]
#3096025
11/21/22 01:22 PM
11/21/22 01:22 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
OP
super stock
|
OP
super stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060
Loudoun County, VA
|
I used to modify Street Dominators by making the second port entry from the plenum more Trapezoidal (I used to call it "Gumby's head" lol) when looking at them side by side and with slightly more square area to the second port. It's seemed to work because the SD would usually pick up 1.5 MPH and drop the ET .1-.2 tenths on a typical low 12-high 11 B or E body.
You "Gumby Headed" the #7 and #1 ports? Trying to get my mind wrapped around that idea...
Last edited by Brad_Haak; 11/21/22 01:22 PM.
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 (2022) 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) wheels, tires, air filter: 1.714, 11.833 at 115.80 (DA 310 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip (2008) pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
|
|
|
|
|