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Girdle and aluminum main caps #3094028
11/13/22 09:24 PM
11/13/22 09:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 173
California
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GTXMEX Offline OP
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GTXMEX  Offline OP
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California
I've got a Milodon girdle for my 440RB on order. It's been on order for at least 6 months and keeps getting pushed out further, Just got delayed again from end of December to January.

Thinking to change course and order the Hughes Engine girdle https://www.hughesengines.com/Tools...mages/hug7380k.jpg&title=HUG%207380K and these main caps https://www.manciniracing.com/marabialstma.html.

Will there be any clearance issues with my Kframe? Any problems with my Milodon oil pan and pickup?

I've trying to ensure an extended life to a 508" stroker that should have ~650 HP and torque.

Thanks!

Re: Girdle and aluminum main caps [Re: GTXMEX] #3094051
11/13/22 11:52 PM
11/13/22 11:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,986
Warren, MI
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Jerry Offline
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Jerry  Offline
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Warren, MI
i've got the bcr girdle kits in stock.


Superior Design Concepts
2574 Elliott Dr
Troy MI 48083
jerry@sdconcepts.com
www.sdconcepts.com
Facebook page: Superior Design Concepts
www.bcrproducts.com
Re: Girdle and aluminum main caps [Re: Jerry] #3094053
11/14/22 12:38 AM
11/14/22 12:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 173
California
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GTXMEX Offline OP
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Will it require shimming my motor mounts??

Re: Girdle and aluminum main caps [Re: Jerry] #3094054
11/14/22 01:00 AM
11/14/22 01:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,261
New York, USA
Chargerfan68 Offline
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New York, USA
Originally Posted by Jerry
i've got the bcr girdle kits in stock.


This is am extremely well designed kit. It does require some add’l machining but i think out of all of the girdle kits, this one is the best. I used it on a guys stock RB block that made 741 Hp on dyno with -1 heads. Very nice quality design kit.

And I might add great customer service. When the machine shop misplaced the girdle specs/instructions, i called and got them on the phone right away and they made sure I got the details. That’s super in my book!

45060CF8-6228-40F4-97F4-8A1F3958BA9F.jpeg8412C10B-C680-4789-884E-FB80BE314A4D.jpeg
Last edited by Chargerfan68; 11/14/22 01:08 AM.

1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
Re: Girdle and aluminum main caps [Re: Chargerfan68] #3094062
11/14/22 03:04 AM
11/14/22 03:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,986
Warren, MI
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Jerry Offline
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Warren, MI
havent heard of anyone having to shim motor mounts but these cars all have some pretty loose tolerances from the factory, so your mileage ,may vary.


Superior Design Concepts
2574 Elliott Dr
Troy MI 48083
jerry@sdconcepts.com
www.sdconcepts.com
Facebook page: Superior Design Concepts
www.bcrproducts.com
Re: Girdle and aluminum main caps [Re: GTXMEX] #3094064
11/14/22 03:11 AM
11/14/22 03:11 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 42,996
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
I've drag race and built BB Mopars since the early 1970s, for your deal you don't buy and use any girdle tsk
Aluminum main caps and ARP main studs is overkill in my opinion for any B/RB Mopar V8 engine making under 700 HP on gasoline twocents
The Mopar BB and the Ford FE engines have a lot more strength in the main bearing area due to the additional cast iron under the main webbing going to the oil pan rails scope
Look very closely at any after market girdle that cuts into the block reducing the stock block strengths, the main studs that don't have an interference machine fit into the girdles do nothing other than add additional costs to your build, same thing on the oil pan studs puke scope work
You would be better off building a 400 block that sonic tests good due to all of them (400 blocks) having thicker main webbing than any of the stock OEM production 440 blocks, I've had to throw away 5 RB blocks due to them cracking between the bottom of the cylinders and the main webbing after racing them for several years: whiney: shruggy
I've heard of some of the 383 and 361 blocks doing that also, no 400 blocks though, yet luck
Buy the aluminum main caps and ARP studs and have any block sonic tested before using it for a race motor making north of 700 HP on gasoline twocents


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Girdle and aluminum main caps [Re: Cab_Burge] #3094096
11/14/22 09:50 AM
11/14/22 09:50 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,378
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
I just purchased a 440 blower motor from a buddy of mine, and it has this system on it....Man what a work of art. I would highly recomend it for anyone going to push a stock block pretty hard. We typically run the 440source one in all our strokers and still see some light cap walk, but no failures. My blower motor I am told has taken 22psi and made 1200hp...I do not plan to run it that hard, but the insurance is nice.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Girdle and aluminum main caps [Re: Cab_Burge] #3094167
11/14/22 03:14 PM
11/14/22 03:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,986
Warren, MI
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Jerry Offline
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Jerry  Offline
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Warren, MI
hey Cab,

instead of constantly bashing girdles on here, why not call me to discuss how our kit works. there are alot of just "bolt on" girdles that offer minimal if any help, then there is the bcr/sdc kit. i'd be happy to walk you through the installation aspects as well as the engineering behind it, we've got guys running these kits with success making a ton of power and running a lot of rpm. the above pretty much goes for anyone interested, we always take phone calls and are happy to discuss things with people who have an open mind.


Superior Design Concepts
2574 Elliott Dr
Troy MI 48083
jerry@sdconcepts.com
www.sdconcepts.com
Facebook page: Superior Design Concepts
www.bcrproducts.com
Re: Girdle and aluminum main caps [Re: GTXMEX] #3094173
11/14/22 03:34 PM
11/14/22 03:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
polyspheric Offline
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polyspheric  Offline
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New York
Please remember that the purpose of a girdle is to reduce distortion and retain all components in the correct locations.
This is bending resistance, not strength.
This is a function of the material's "Young's modulus of elasticity", aluminum is about 10 million psi, most iron products are about 30 million psi. An aluminum girdle must be much thicker than steel or iron to have the same effect.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Girdle and aluminum main caps [Re: polyspheric] #3094182
11/14/22 04:27 PM
11/14/22 04:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,261
New York, USA
Chargerfan68 Offline
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Originally Posted by polyspheric
Please remember that the purpose of a girdle is to reduce distortion and retain all components in the correct locations.
This is bending resistance, not strength.
This is a function of the material's "Young's modulus of elasticity", aluminum is about 10 million psi, most iron products are about 30 million psi. An aluminum girdle must be much thicker than steel or iron to have the same effect.


Just to point out that the girdle is steel. It is “beefy”. Only the caps are aluminum.


1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
Re: Girdle and aluminum main caps [Re: Chargerfan68] #3094200
11/14/22 07:08 PM
11/14/22 07:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
polyspheric Offline
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Excellent, thanks.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Girdle and aluminum main caps [Re: polyspheric] #3094222
11/14/22 09:02 PM
11/14/22 09:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,036
Mooresburg, Tn
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'72CudaRacer Offline
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Mooresburg, Tn
I run the BCR cap & girdle set up in my Cuda, along with the Milodon SS oil pan (the one with the steering link passing through the pan). I also run a front motor plate, but the engine is in the same place as with the stock mounts. I don't have any problem with clearance because of the girdle. The big difference between BCR set up and everyone else's, BRC attaches the girdle with separate studs, not longer main studs.
Some people disagree with this thought process, but to me, it can't hurt. It has to be better than doing nothing. And it makes me feel good.

Brian

Re: Girdle and aluminum main caps [Re: '72CudaRacer] #3094224
11/14/22 09:15 PM
11/14/22 09:15 PM
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Posts: 20,111
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
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As long as you sleep better at night I guess that’s all you can ask for. For me I’m going to put the money it cost for stock block work, machine cost in fitting a girdle, plus the cost of the girdle towards a REAL race block. Good luck


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Girdle and aluminum main caps [Re: pittsburghracer] #3094236
11/14/22 09:52 PM
11/14/22 09:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 42,996
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
[quote=pittsburghracer]

As long as you sleep better at night I guess that’s all you can ask for. For me I’m going to put the money it cost for stock block work, machine cost in fitting a girdle, plus the cost of the girdle towards a REAL race block. Good luck [/quote iagree up work
My last 400 block race only stroker motor had 15.2 to 1 compression ratio and I raced it on pump E85, it ran a best of 5.50 ET in the 1/8 mile at 125.6 MPH, 8.86 at 150.5 MPH in the 1/4 mile weighing 2850 Lbs. with me in it, you can do the math for the HP it made scope. It had a set of 440 Source aluminum main caps with ARP main studs with my homemade crank scraper and a stock type windage tray, the aftermarket race SS style oil pan held over 12 quarts of oil but I ran it with 10 or 11 quarts and never had a oiling issue racing it with VR1 10x30 Wt racing oil.

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 11/14/22 09:53 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Girdle and aluminum main caps [Re: Cab_Burge] #3094300
11/15/22 10:22 AM
11/15/22 10:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 870
Missouri
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jwb123 Offline
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Missouri
I agree, buy a race block. I did my time with different caps, girdles etc. back when there were very few race block around. If I was going to run a girdle, I would use a steel cap. If I was going to run an aluminum cap, I would just run good studs. and fill the block. I had good results with both of those combinations. But after three seasons they did not blow up, but most of my blocks would not freshen due to cracks, or distortion of the cylinder walls. The race block is now 10 years old and no issues . 800 HP level

Re: Girdle and aluminum main caps [Re: jwb123] #3094611
11/16/22 11:26 AM
11/16/22 11:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,060
Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
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My current 440 block had the cross-bolted 2/3/4 caps installed a couple of rebuilds ago. Even with an engine that only put at around 600 HP at its peak, there are signs of the bottom of the main caps that things are still moving around a little bit. Now it's gonna have to handle another 50+ HP and more torque, too.

My backup block has been machined for standard aluminum caps, plus I decided to add an old CRE girdle (similar to Hughes and 440 Source) to help stabilize the main caps better. No, it's not as sophisticated as the BCR cap & girdle combination, but it's what I have (and it's paid for).

You can probably tie up $2500-3000 in buying and "race prepping" a 45+ years-old OEM block w/ the BCR setup, once all the costs are factored in. Based on what I found recently, it would require close to $7K to have a ready-to-assemble BMP aluminum block. I'd love a new BMP block, though.


2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 (2022)
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
wheels, tires, air filter: 1.714, 11.833 at 115.80 (DA 310 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip (2008)
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)






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